AdidasC230

CHP is useless though, depending on auto or manual the at wheel figure varies greatly. My old S40 with a flash promised crank Tq of 320Lbft and 240Hp, it actually dynod 278tq and 221hp. I had a manual the autos lost even more power from crank to wheels.

The C350 gained over 30 CHP according to that chart, makes me wonder how restrictive the OEM exaust system really is because thats a pretty big gain even on the 3.5

zerocover

Those are "corrected numbers", what numbers was the car putting out before the headers? On this same "corrected" dyno. I'm thinking it was in the 290 range based on those numbers

W203E35

They claim with headers, ECU and camshafts that the 350 engine will make 335hp. I don't know how real these numbers are.

The ECU upgrade 290hp with hi flow air filter it's 295hp

ECU, hi flow air filter and headers it's 315hp

ECU, hi flow air filters, headers and camshaft it's 335hp

Maybe the person who sent these to me got them labeled wrong. Maybe tune is 295hp and with headers and tune it's 319hp

What does corrected number mean? They did the calculation themselves?

zerocover

Most dyno operators correct for altitude, temperature, and whatever else the SAE calls for, when calculating whp. Generally you'll see SAE corrected on the dyno sheet. This is an attempt to standardize hp dyno plots.

However to get the hp at the crank non-scientific assumptions need to be made, to approximate the real power of a car. Unless someone has an engine dyno chp numbers are not reliable. There are many unscrupulous independent tuners that will inflate a cars power numbers by setting the whp to chp correction factor too high. This is why people should always ask for a before and an after dyno. Maybe it was a mistake and he approximated a 30% drivetrain loss on the C class, which inflated all the numbers by the diffrence.

However I would love to believe that headers gain 30hp, that would be the mod to get then.

AdidasC230

and if header gain 30hp and a flash and cams gain you 50 with the header, then why is that stuff about 2k and a s/c or turbo that proven to put down huge 50+ hp gains 10 grand? Im sorry it all just sounds wayyyyy to good to be true.

I mean if Mb could do something as stupid as make higher flow header and gain almost 30hp so they where more competitive in the market, I think they would have by now you know. CHP is crap, I mean whos actually measuring it and how, are they pulling the tranny off and connecting some sort of crank tester? I just think CHP charts are crap, tell me what it PUTS DOWN not what it supposedly does at the crank.

W203E35

It's not 2k. It's almost 4k and with the camshafts its 6k. 6k for 335hp.

There is no supercharger or turbo for the M272. The way they probably did it is they dynoed the stock car and dynoed it after mods and added the power after.

I just now remembered when my friend got his CL600 tuned by Kleemann from DC Motorsports they first did a dyno run and after the ecu was shipped back they did one again.

W203E35

Kleemann in no way will mess up the numbers. Not all cars are the same so maybe max 10hp difference from car to car.

AdidasC230

ok so if they do dyno the cars before and after then why dont the post WHP number CHP is about as useless as a monkey who doesnt throw his poop

W203E35

I have no idea. I guess the same reason why car manufacturers market crank power rather than wheel power.

A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.

295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp

zerocover

Actually thats a 14.9% drive train loss, which is scary efficient for a rwd.
(real-measured)/real

Still a 23 whp gain on just headers is amazing, esp with unequal length ones.

zerocover

Some food for thought on that topic
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm

AdidasC230

Yeah I know but CHP is for idiots, obvisoly people buying aftermarket parts have some clue what the heck is up and accordingly want WHP not CHP, I just find it terribly misleading, esp since they are doing even CHP based on a BS calculation with a totally variable number.

If they do a actual Dyno and give WHP it there is nothing but solid numbers no well add in this and subtract out that, u know.

Krytech

Calculated CHP is a guesstimate at best, misleading at worst.

However if I recall correctly, those dyno graphs from Kleemann were done on their test engine in DK with the engine removed from the car. So those should be actual CHP and not calculated CHP numbers.

W203E35

^^ The man who provided the graphs (thanks Krytech).

I got them installed yesterday and you can feel a pretty significant difference.

NegroC230

Karo, did you really get them ? doesnt the engine open up more smother and stronger after 3k after the install? what did you do about the cats?

W203E35

My guy had to cut the top part of the cat off and weld the pipe in the middle. It's a pain in the ***.

The power is insane, at first i was punching it and I'm like what a waste of money. Then after 5 crazy pulls on the freeway the car woke up. I'm thinking of getting it dyno tuned rather than mailing my ECU out. So once I do that i'll post some numbers.

Ohh and the engine redlines like crazy now. I feel the engine is going to blow

No joke on freeway speeds (80mph) withing a matter of seconds I reach 120. The car breathes soo easily now.

johnand

Karo, did you reset adaptations?

W203E35

No I didn't get a chance. I was planning on doing that today but I had to go around town to get a quote so they can fix the steering wheel column.

After I installed the headers the steering column shaft was fine. After a couple of minutes of driving about to hit the freeway I noticed the steering column shaft is hitting the headers

It a certain point where it hits it. I went to some guy he tried bending it and now when I turn the steering wheel right there is no rub. Only when I turn it left then I feel rub. When the car is not in motion I feel no rub but when the car is in motion I do feel rub. Before I had to pull the steering wheel pretty hard (not insanely hard) to be able to move it to left.

They told me 150 to repair it because they have to take the steering column shaft off. Since it's so minimal i'm hoping to be able to bend the header just a tad bit with a crowbar. The rub is soo minimal.

I will reset adaptation and report back once I fix this issue.

W203E35

I forgot to mention, Kleemann does have a disclosure about checking the steering column shaft for clearance so I believe this has happened before. The install took a whole day because my guy had to create new downpipes and modify the cats. He really took his time and did a great job. He didn't hurry up just to get it done. He took his time and I feel he did an amazing job

NegroC230

Did you reuse your remaining exhaust? If so , I recommend you run new custom piping. My exhaust pipe before the y were 2.25" in dia. Headers exits are 2.5". That created a huge back pressure and an annoying rasp. Now I have 2.5" from headers to y muffler and 3" all the way to the end. Let me tell you, what a noticeable increase was that mod on top of headers

Krytech

Damn I'm jealous! Hopefully they'll release them for the W204 soon...

It probably took some time for your ECU to adjust to the new breathing capabilities. I've heard it takes several hundered miles to become fully adjusted. Add an ECU tune and you'll probably be amazed all over again

How's the sound level? Any drone when you're crusing on the highway?

Again, congrats on the header install!

zerocover

Did you loose alot in the low end? Hows the fuel economy impacted?

Most importantly do the headers only rub on some peoples steering columns or everyones?

W203E35

You know what was wierd. When I was under the car we noticed the right side pipe was thicker than the left side. Sounds like a plan, thanks
Did you have any steering column shaft issues? Mine rubs :-(

Thanks
The ones I got were for the w204. They already released them, talk to Bruce at TTMotorsports, I believe he has done couple of installs. I can't wait to get it tuned. It sounds ok but I feel I have an exhaust leak. I have to have that checked out. But it did get louder.

Honestly I was very impressed because I didn't loose low end at all. My fuel economy went a little higher and I am punching the car more than ever . Weird huh?? I don't know how that can be.

Ya, my steering column shaft rubs against the header. It didn't happen at first but while exiting freeway I noticed it. I did also notice it was very close to the headers so I'm guessing they expanded and now it rubs.

W203E35

This is what rubs against the header. The grooves part is what rubs.

Luke_Geezy

woud these headers fit a 2006 c280? its a 3.0 m272 engine...