M272 Headers......
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Saab 900 SE
CHP is useless though, depending on auto or manual the at wheel figure varies greatly. My old S40 with a flash promised crank Tq of 320Lbft and 240Hp, it actually dynod 278tq and 221hp. I had a manual the autos lost even more power from crank to wheels.
The C350 gained over 30 CHP according to that chart, makes me wonder how restrictive the OEM exaust system really is because thats a pretty big gain even on the 3.5
The C350 gained over 30 CHP according to that chart, makes me wonder how restrictive the OEM exaust system really is because thats a pretty big gain even on the 3.5
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Joined: Feb 2009
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2006 C350 Sport 6MT
They claim with headers, ECU and camshafts that the 350 engine will make 335hp. I don't know how real these numbers are.
The ECU upgrade 290hp with hi flow air filter it's 295hp
ECU, hi flow air filter and headers it's 315hp
ECU, hi flow air filters, headers and camshaft it's 335hp
Maybe the person who sent these to me got them labeled wrong. Maybe tune is 295hp and with headers and tune it's 319hp
What does corrected number mean? They did the calculation themselves?
The ECU upgrade 290hp with hi flow air filter it's 295hp
ECU, hi flow air filter and headers it's 315hp
ECU, hi flow air filters, headers and camshaft it's 335hp
Maybe the person who sent these to me got them labeled wrong. Maybe tune is 295hp and with headers and tune it's 319hp
What does corrected number mean? They did the calculation themselves?
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 333
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From: NYC
2007 C280 4Matic
Most dyno operators correct for altitude, temperature, and whatever else the SAE calls for, when calculating whp. Generally you'll see SAE corrected on the dyno sheet. This is an attempt to standardize hp dyno plots.
However to get the hp at the crank non-scientific assumptions need to be made, to approximate the real power of a car. Unless someone has an engine dyno chp numbers are not reliable. There are many unscrupulous independent tuners that will inflate a cars power numbers by setting the whp to chp correction factor too high. This is why people should always ask for a before and an after dyno. Maybe it was a mistake and he approximated a 30% drivetrain loss on the C class, which inflated all the numbers by the diffrence.
However I would love to believe that headers gain 30hp, that would be the mod to get then.
However to get the hp at the crank non-scientific assumptions need to be made, to approximate the real power of a car. Unless someone has an engine dyno chp numbers are not reliable. There are many unscrupulous independent tuners that will inflate a cars power numbers by setting the whp to chp correction factor too high. This is why people should always ask for a before and an after dyno. Maybe it was a mistake and he approximated a 30% drivetrain loss on the C class, which inflated all the numbers by the diffrence.
However I would love to believe that headers gain 30hp, that would be the mod to get then.
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Saab 900 SE
Most dyno operators correct for altitude, temperature, and whatever else the SAE calls for, when calculating whp. Generally you'll see SAE corrected on the dyno sheet. This is an attempt to standardize hp dyno plots.
However to get the hp at the crank non-scientific assumptions need to be made, to approximate the real power of a car. Unless someone has an engine dyno chp numbers are not reliable. There are many unscrupulous independent tuners that will inflate a cars power numbers by setting the whp to chp correction factor too high. This is why people should always ask for a before and an after dyno. Maybe it was a mistake and he approximated a 30% drivetrain loss on the C class, which inflated all the numbers by the diffrence.
However I would love to believe that headers gain 30hp, that would be the mod to get then.
However to get the hp at the crank non-scientific assumptions need to be made, to approximate the real power of a car. Unless someone has an engine dyno chp numbers are not reliable. There are many unscrupulous independent tuners that will inflate a cars power numbers by setting the whp to chp correction factor too high. This is why people should always ask for a before and an after dyno. Maybe it was a mistake and he approximated a 30% drivetrain loss on the C class, which inflated all the numbers by the diffrence.
However I would love to believe that headers gain 30hp, that would be the mod to get then.
I mean if Mb could do something as stupid as make higher flow header and gain almost 30hp so they where more competitive in the market, I think they would have by now you know. CHP is crap, I mean whos actually measuring it and how, are they pulling the tranny off and connecting some sort of crank tester? I just think CHP charts are crap, tell me what it PUTS DOWN not what it supposedly does at the crank.
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2006 C350 Sport 6MT
It's not 2k. It's almost 4k and with the camshafts its 6k. 6k for 335hp.
There is no supercharger or turbo for the M272. The way they probably did it is they dynoed the stock car and dynoed it after mods and added the power after.
I just now remembered when my friend got his CL600 tuned by Kleemann from DC Motorsports they first did a dyno run and after the ecu was shipped back they did one again.
There is no supercharger or turbo for the M272. The way they probably did it is they dynoed the stock car and dynoed it after mods and added the power after.
I just now remembered when my friend got his CL600 tuned by Kleemann from DC Motorsports they first did a dyno run and after the ecu was shipped back they did one again.
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Saab 900 SE
It's not 2k. It's almost 4k and with the camshafts its 6k. 6k for 335hp.
There is no supercharger or turbo for the M272. The way they probably did it is they dynoed the stock car and dynoed it after mods and added the power after.
I just now remembered when my friend got his CL600 tuned by Kleemann from DC Motorsports they first did a dyno run and after the ecu was shipped back they did one again.
There is no supercharger or turbo for the M272. The way they probably did it is they dynoed the stock car and dynoed it after mods and added the power after.
I just now remembered when my friend got his CL600 tuned by Kleemann from DC Motorsports they first did a dyno run and after the ecu was shipped back they did one again.
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2006 C350 Sport 6MT
I have no idea. I guess the same reason why car manufacturers market crank power rather than wheel power.
A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.
295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp
A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.
295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp
Last edited by W203E35; Jul 27, 2010 at 10:52 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 333
Likes: 2
From: NYC
2007 C280 4Matic
I have no idea. I guess the same reason why car manufacturers market crank power rather than wheel power.
A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.
295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp
A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.
295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp
(real-measured)/real
Still a 23 whp gain on just headers is amazing, esp with unequal length ones.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 333
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From: NYC
2007 C280 4Matic
Some food for thought on that topic
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Saab 900 SE
I have no idea. I guess the same reason why car manufacturers market crank power rather than wheel power.
A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.
295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp
A 2008 C350 dynos at 228hp. That's about 18% loss on a dyno dynamics which from what I hear is more realistic numbers than dynojet.
295hp should be 242whp
319hp should be 262whp
335hp should be 275whp
If they do a actual Dyno and give WHP it there is nothing but solid numbers no well add in this and subtract out that, u know.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
2014 Ghibli S Q4 & 2008 C350
Calculated CHP is a guesstimate at best, misleading at worst.
However if I recall correctly, those dyno graphs from Kleemann were done on their test engine in DK with the engine removed from the car. So those should be actual CHP and not calculated CHP numbers.
However if I recall correctly, those dyno graphs from Kleemann were done on their test engine in DK with the engine removed from the car. So those should be actual CHP and not calculated CHP numbers.
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2006 C350 Sport 6MT
The power is insane, at first i was punching it and I'm like what a waste of money. Then after 5 crazy pulls on the freeway the car woke up. I'm thinking of getting it dyno tuned rather than mailing my ECU out. So once I do that i'll post some numbers.
Ohh and the engine redlines like crazy now. I feel the engine is going to blow
No joke on freeway speeds (80mph) withing a matter of seconds I reach 120. The car breathes soo easily now.
Last edited by W203E35; Jun 23, 2010 at 06:09 PM.
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From: Camas, WA
2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
My guy had to cut the top part of the cat off and weld the pipe in the middle. It's a pain in the ***.
The power is insane, at first i was punching it and I'm like what a waste of money. Then after 5 crazy pulls on the freeway the car woke up. I'm thinking of getting it dyno tuned rather than mailing my ECU out. So once I do that i'll post some numbers.
Ohh and the engine redlines like crazy now. I feel the engine is going to blow
No joke on freeway speeds (80mph) withing a matter of seconds I reach 120. The car breathes soo easily now.
The power is insane, at first i was punching it and I'm like what a waste of money. Then after 5 crazy pulls on the freeway the car woke up. I'm thinking of getting it dyno tuned rather than mailing my ECU out. So once I do that i'll post some numbers.
Ohh and the engine redlines like crazy now. I feel the engine is going to blow
No joke on freeway speeds (80mph) withing a matter of seconds I reach 120. The car breathes soo easily now.
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2006 C350 Sport 6MT
No I didn't get a chance. I was planning on doing that today but I had to go around town to get a quote so they can fix the steering wheel column.
After I installed the headers the steering column shaft was fine. After a couple of minutes of driving about to hit the freeway I noticed the steering column shaft is hitting the headers
It a certain point where it hits it. I went to some guy he tried bending it and now when I turn the steering wheel right there is no rub. Only when I turn it left then I feel rub. When the car is not in motion I feel no rub but when the car is in motion I do feel rub. Before I had to pull the steering wheel pretty hard (not insanely hard) to be able to move it to left.
They told me 150 to repair it because they have to take the steering column shaft off. Since it's so minimal i'm hoping to be able to bend the header just a tad bit with a crowbar. The rub is soo minimal.
I will reset adaptation and report back once I fix this issue.
After I installed the headers the steering column shaft was fine. After a couple of minutes of driving about to hit the freeway I noticed the steering column shaft is hitting the headers
It a certain point where it hits it. I went to some guy he tried bending it and now when I turn the steering wheel right there is no rub. Only when I turn it left then I feel rub. When the car is not in motion I feel no rub but when the car is in motion I do feel rub. Before I had to pull the steering wheel pretty hard (not insanely hard) to be able to move it to left.
They told me 150 to repair it because they have to take the steering column shaft off. Since it's so minimal i'm hoping to be able to bend the header just a tad bit with a crowbar. The rub is soo minimal.
I will reset adaptation and report back once I fix this issue.
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2006 C350 Sport 6MT
I forgot to mention, Kleemann does have a disclosure about checking the steering column shaft for clearance so I believe this has happened before. The install took a whole day because my guy had to create new downpipes and modify the cats. He really took his time and did a great job. He didn't hurry up just to get it done. He took his time and I feel he did an amazing job
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 526
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From: NYC
08 ML CDI
Did you reuse your remaining exhaust? If so , I recommend you run new custom piping. My exhaust pipe before the y were 2.25" in dia. Headers exits are 2.5". That created a huge back pressure and an annoying rasp. Now I have 2.5" from headers to y muffler and 3" all the way to the end. Let me tell you, what a noticeable increase was that mod on top of headers 
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From: Phoenix, AZ
2014 Ghibli S Q4 & 2008 C350
My guy had to cut the top part of the cat off and weld the pipe in the middle. It's a pain in the ***.
The power is insane, at first i was punching it and I'm like what a waste of money. Then after 5 crazy pulls on the freeway the car woke up. I'm thinking of getting it dyno tuned rather than mailing my ECU out. So once I do that i'll post some numbers.
Ohh and the engine redlines like crazy now. I feel the engine is going to blow
No joke on freeway speeds (80mph) withing a matter of seconds I reach 120. The car breathes soo easily now.
The power is insane, at first i was punching it and I'm like what a waste of money. Then after 5 crazy pulls on the freeway the car woke up. I'm thinking of getting it dyno tuned rather than mailing my ECU out. So once I do that i'll post some numbers.
Ohh and the engine redlines like crazy now. I feel the engine is going to blow
No joke on freeway speeds (80mph) withing a matter of seconds I reach 120. The car breathes soo easily now.
How's the sound level? Any drone when you're crusing on the highway?
Again, congrats on the header install!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,537
Likes: 8
2006 C350 Sport 6MT
Did you reuse your remaining exhaust? If so , I recommend you run new custom piping. My exhaust pipe before the y were 2.25" in dia. Headers exits are 2.5". That created a huge back pressure and an annoying rasp. Now I have 2.5" from headers to y muffler and 3" all the way to the end. Let me tell you, what a noticeable increase was that mod on top of headers
Did you have any steering column shaft issues? Mine rubs :-(
Damn I'm jealous! Hopefully they'll release them for the W204 soon...
It probably took some time for your ECU to adjust to the new breathing capabilities. I've heard it takes several hundered miles to become fully adjusted. Add an ECU tune and you'll probably be amazed all over again
How's the sound level? Any drone when you're crusing on the highway?
Again, congrats on the header install!
It probably took some time for your ECU to adjust to the new breathing capabilities. I've heard it takes several hundered miles to become fully adjusted. Add an ECU tune and you'll probably be amazed all over again
How's the sound level? Any drone when you're crusing on the highway?
Again, congrats on the header install!
The ones I got were for the w204. They already released them, talk to Bruce at TTMotorsports, I believe he has done couple of installs. I can't wait to get it tuned.
It sounds ok but I feel I have an exhaust leak. I have to have that checked out. But it did get louder.. Weird huh?? I don't know how that can be. Ya, my steering column shaft rubs against the header. It didn't happen at first but while exiting freeway I noticed it. I did also notice it was very close to the headers so I'm guessing they expanded and now it rubs.
