2003 Rumor
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati
2002 C230k
2003 Rumor
I just got back from test driving a 6spd C230K. Nice car (wish it were a little quicker, however). Anyway, the salesman told me that he was at a recent clinic on the "S" class and that he heard the rumor that the 2003 would be offered with a 1.8 litre supercharged engine rated at 163hp. I don't know whether there is any truth to it, but I was hoping that they would go the other way (more hp that is).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,309
Likes: 0
From: Stockholm, Sweden
C200 Kompressor
In Europe a 2.0 liter supercharged engine is available in both the C sedan and coupe. This engine is rated to 163 hp. Maybe this is the engine you are thinking about? There are actually one 2.0 liter naturally aspirated 129 hp engine on the program too!
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Newport Coast, CA
'00 C280W, Obsidian Black/Charcoal
Re: 2003 Rumor
The only C-Coupe that shows up in M-B's Netstar for MY03 is a C180K. I've asked M-B about it and no one can give me an definitive answer. BTW, there is NO C230K on the list.
At first I thought it might be a Canadian only version. This post is the first I've read of someone else bringing up the question. Somethings brewing in Deutschland with the C-Coupe. More later. ...RAB
At first I thought it might be a Canadian only version. This post is the first I've read of someone else bringing up the question. Somethings brewing in Deutschland with the C-Coupe. More later. ...RAB
Originally posted by chuckd94
I just got back from test driving a 6spd C230K. Nice car (wish it were a little quicker, however). Anyway, the salesman told me that he was at a recent clinic on the "S" class and that he heard the rumor that the 2003 would be offered with a 1.8 litre supercharged engine rated at 163hp. I don't know whether there is any truth to it, but I was hoping that they would go the other way (more hp that is).
I just got back from test driving a 6spd C230K. Nice car (wish it were a little quicker, however). Anyway, the salesman told me that he was at a recent clinic on the "S" class and that he heard the rumor that the 2003 would be offered with a 1.8 litre supercharged engine rated at 163hp. I don't know whether there is any truth to it, but I was hoping that they would go the other way (more hp that is).
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
new engines
According to Autouniversum, Mercedes is releasing some of its new CGI (stratified charge gasoline injection) engines this fall. Apparently the most powerful of these is a 1.8 litre four with two counter-rotating shafts to give it the smoothness of an inline 6. It's a direct injection engine, supercharged and good for 170 HP and 250 Nm of torque. That's 7 more HP and 20 more Nm of twist than the present EU C 200 K offers. Plus it's more torquey than the 2.6 L V6 and has the same HP. This should mean the demise of the C 240.
The best news is that the average fuel economy: 7.8 L/100 km (30.1 MPG US) city and highway combined, compared to 9.7 L/100 km (24.2 MPG US) for the C200K and 11.1 L/100 km (21.2 MPG US)for the C240.
Let's see: an engine that's as smooth as an inline 6, has the same power as a 2.6 L V6, has 4% more torque, developed lower in the rev range, and drinks 42% less fuel....good riddance to the thirsty C240 V6! Let's hope that engine comes to North America.
The best news is that the average fuel economy: 7.8 L/100 km (30.1 MPG US) city and highway combined, compared to 9.7 L/100 km (24.2 MPG US) for the C200K and 11.1 L/100 km (21.2 MPG US)for the C240.
Let's see: an engine that's as smooth as an inline 6, has the same power as a 2.6 L V6, has 4% more torque, developed lower in the rev range, and drinks 42% less fuel....good riddance to the thirsty C240 V6! Let's hope that engine comes to North America.
Trending Topics
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Ashburn, VA
'19 GLC 300, '19 TM3SR+
Re: new engines
Originally posted by Mike T.
Let's see: an engine that's as smooth as an inline 6, has the same power as a 2.6 L V6,
Let's see: an engine that's as smooth as an inline 6, has the same power as a 2.6 L V6,
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
7 Craziest Things AMG Gas Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
balance
I was simply paraphrasing the Mercedes-Benz marketing hype about the effect of the balancing shafts.
However, a 1.8 litre four, depending on its bore/stroke ratio, can be a very smooth engine, even without the benefits of balancing shafts. For example, my Peugeot 404 Coupé (Kugelfischer injection) has a 1.6 L four, and it is smoother than any V6 car I've ever driven. So a small-displacement, short stroke 4 with dual balance shafts may well FEEL as smooth as a small IL 6. It will certainly feel as smooth as the 90 degree V6 in the C 240 (which itself has a balance shaft). A friend of mine in Germany used to run a 520i (6 cyl, 150 HP) BMW and its IL 6 was no smoother than my 404 engine. It sounded smoother though.
Contrary to popular urban legend, inline 6 and V12 (with any cylinder angle) engines are not perfectly balanced in all respects. They are only less imbalanced than other layouts. And the theoretical balance advantages of certain cylinder layouts can be lost due to excessive rotating masses as a percentage of engine mass, poor bore/stroke ratios and the like. So it's not quite as simple as you say.
In any event, the point of my post was that these new direct injection engines sound like a major improvement on the gas-guzzling and carbon dioxide-spewing V6 that the C 240 and C320 have. In fact, according to the fuel economy figures, Mercedes has surpassed the surprisingly good fuel efficiency of the BMW IL 6s. That is something to celebrate, surely...
However, a 1.8 litre four, depending on its bore/stroke ratio, can be a very smooth engine, even without the benefits of balancing shafts. For example, my Peugeot 404 Coupé (Kugelfischer injection) has a 1.6 L four, and it is smoother than any V6 car I've ever driven. So a small-displacement, short stroke 4 with dual balance shafts may well FEEL as smooth as a small IL 6. It will certainly feel as smooth as the 90 degree V6 in the C 240 (which itself has a balance shaft). A friend of mine in Germany used to run a 520i (6 cyl, 150 HP) BMW and its IL 6 was no smoother than my 404 engine. It sounded smoother though.
Contrary to popular urban legend, inline 6 and V12 (with any cylinder angle) engines are not perfectly balanced in all respects. They are only less imbalanced than other layouts. And the theoretical balance advantages of certain cylinder layouts can be lost due to excessive rotating masses as a percentage of engine mass, poor bore/stroke ratios and the like. So it's not quite as simple as you say.
In any event, the point of my post was that these new direct injection engines sound like a major improvement on the gas-guzzling and carbon dioxide-spewing V6 that the C 240 and C320 have. In fact, according to the fuel economy figures, Mercedes has surpassed the surprisingly good fuel efficiency of the BMW IL 6s. That is something to celebrate, surely...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
the hype
Stuttgart, 02/06/2002
In mid-2002, Mercedes-Benz will be taking a big step into the future with a new generation of four-cylinder engines. The cutting-edge drive systems, which will initially be used in the C-Class and later in other Mercedes models as well, will be setting benchmarks in all important areas of development: fuel consumption, torque characteristics, performance development, lightweight construction and running smoothness.
-from Mercedes-Benz.com
In mid-2002, Mercedes-Benz will be taking a big step into the future with a new generation of four-cylinder engines. The cutting-edge drive systems, which will initially be used in the C-Class and later in other Mercedes models as well, will be setting benchmarks in all important areas of development: fuel consumption, torque characteristics, performance development, lightweight construction and running smoothness.
-from Mercedes-Benz.com
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,891
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
2002 C230 : 2007 C230
Printed in the March 2002 issure of European Car, on page 16 is the following:
"For those who want a more stylish car, the 4-Matic system will also be available as an option in the V6-powered C240 and C320 Sport Coupe models, which join the range in the summer."
RAB: Does this mean a 2003 C320 Sport Coupe 4-Matic is coming?
"For those who want a more stylish car, the 4-Matic system will also be available as an option in the V6-powered C240 and C320 Sport Coupe models, which join the range in the summer."
RAB: Does this mean a 2003 C320 Sport Coupe 4-Matic is coming?
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
From: bucks county
black on black 2k2-230k auto/c1/c5/c7/k2c/COMAND/TELEAID/Stage II HIDS
i think a c320 4 matic coupe woudl push WAY to far into the clk demographic, i personally dont see it happening, but thats just my guess.
greg
greg
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
other 4 cylinder engine news
Aside from the impressive CGI engine mentioned earlier, the other 4 cylinder Mercedes engines that remain in the lineup will apparently be altered as well. However, these won't be direct injection or stratified charge. Apparently the C 230 Kompressor engine is being revised by lowering power to 192 HP from 197, with torque going down from 280 Nm to 260 Nm. The tradeoff is a reduction in fuel consumption by 0.7 L/100 km.
So if you're power-hungry, I guess the 2002 model is the one to buy. I would prefer the modest performance drop in exchange for the better fuel consumption.
The C180 is replaced by a C180K, with 143 HP, a top speed of 222 km/h and 0-100 time of 9.7 s (12 km/h and 1.3 s faster), while the fuel consumption drops by 1 L/100 km. A nice combination.
I imagine the CGI technology will eventually be applied to all Mercedes engines.
So if you're power-hungry, I guess the 2002 model is the one to buy. I would prefer the modest performance drop in exchange for the better fuel consumption.
The C180 is replaced by a C180K, with 143 HP, a top speed of 222 km/h and 0-100 time of 9.7 s (12 km/h and 1.3 s faster), while the fuel consumption drops by 1 L/100 km. A nice combination.
I imagine the CGI technology will eventually be applied to all Mercedes engines.
Last edited by Mike T.; Feb 10, 2002 at 04:14 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,744
Likes: 1
Re: other 4 cylinder engine news
Originally posted by Mike T.
Apparently the 2.3 Kompressor engine is being revised by lowering power to 192 HP from 197, with torque going down from 280 Nm to 260 Nm. The tradeoff is a reduction in fuel consumption by 0.7 L/100 km.
So if you're power-hungry, I guess the 2002 model is the one to buy. I would prefer the modest performance drop in exchange for the better fuel consumption.
Apparently the 2.3 Kompressor engine is being revised by lowering power to 192 HP from 197, with torque going down from 280 Nm to 260 Nm. The tradeoff is a reduction in fuel consumption by 0.7 L/100 km.
So if you're power-hungry, I guess the 2002 model is the one to buy. I would prefer the modest performance drop in exchange for the better fuel consumption.
Information taken from both MBUSA and MB Canada web pages.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,924
Likes: 1
From: Sitting behind thing freakin desk of mine. Dreaming I was playing my Taylors, and driving my Benz. Long Live The VRAA!!!!!!
C230 Sports Coupe
If a C320 sports coupe does come out i will hold off on getting a new C230 and drive the family Ml till then.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
power/torque
Originally posted by Lynn
The 2002 2.3 Kompressor engine as sold in North America is rated at 192 HP and 270 Nm (200 lb-ft).
Information taken from both MBUSA and MB Canada web pages.
The 2002 2.3 Kompressor engine as sold in North America is rated at 192 HP and 270 Nm (200 lb-ft).
Information taken from both MBUSA and MB Canada web pages.
Therefore you can likely count on a proportional drop in power/torque figures over here.
That is, perhaps 187 HP and 250 Nm in US trim.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Ashburn, VA
'19 GLC 300, '19 TM3SR+
Re: balance
Originally posted by Mike T.
Contrary to popular urban legend, inline 6 and V12 (with any cylinder angle) engines are not perfectly balanced in all respects. They are only less imbalanced than other layouts. And the theoretical balance advantages of certain cylinder layouts can be lost due to excessive rotating masses as a percentage of engine mass, poor bore/stroke ratios and the like. So it's not quite as simple as you say.
Contrary to popular urban legend, inline 6 and V12 (with any cylinder angle) engines are not perfectly balanced in all respects. They are only less imbalanced than other layouts. And the theoretical balance advantages of certain cylinder layouts can be lost due to excessive rotating masses as a percentage of engine mass, poor bore/stroke ratios and the like. So it's not quite as simple as you say.
Here's a very decent article explaining various aspects of different engine configurations:
Engine Smoothness
Peace.
Last edited by vadim; Feb 10, 2002 at 03:17 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
imbalance
Originally posted by vadim
This is not an URBAN LEGEND, this is a FACT. Here's a very decent article explaining various aspects of different engine configurations:
Engine Smoothness
This is not an URBAN LEGEND, this is a FACT. Here's a very decent article explaining various aspects of different engine configurations:
Engine Smoothness
MOTOR magazine had an excellent article on the topic a number of years ago (1960s I think), which in great mathematical detail explained all of the forces in different engine layouts. Get a copy if you can. You will find the complete answers there.
My other point also remains, namely that discussions of optimal engine layouts from a theoretical point of view do not necessarily reflect real world experience. For example, poor engine balancing during manufacture, or some square or undersquare engines can be less smooth than a theoretical analysis of cylinder layout might lead one to expect.
