capt_paul

I recently installed H&R sport springs along with Koni yellow shocks/struts. I removed the struts and took them to a Tire Works to get the springs installed onto the shocks. I installed the struts, but when I put that rectangular plate with the washer and nut, the plate bottoms on the "hat" before the plate contacts the body, leaving about a one-eighth inch gap between the plate and the body.

Any ideas on what the problem could be? The strut is fully seated into the recess in the body of the car and all hardware is properly installed and torqued.

ambit

Please rephrase question (with pics?)
These are my Koni/H&R's from a c230 coupe.

The rectangular plate sits flush against the black grommet. Hmm in fact I should probably tighten them since it looks like its been wiggling.

capt_paul

That gap between the plate and the car body as in you picture is what I have. The OEM struts had the rectangular plate flush with the rubber on the body.

fookoo303

Are you sure its supposed to be flush? My car also has that gap, but I have renntech shocks. I also remember when i installed them that there was no indication that they contacted each other.

capt_paul

I would think that the plate needs to be flush because it prevents the strut "hat" from moving vertically within the strut recess in the body

iJimpanzee

With the stock set up, the "bracket" on the top contacted the car.

But with my Pss9's installed the top "bracket" has about <half inch gap as well..
I don't notice much noise due to this, but I don't know how safe it is.
I only notice noise from the front when I hit fat dips

phister

This has been discussed many times. There is going to be a gap because the strut has been shorted due to the shorter spring. As long as the strut nut on top is fully tightened you should be fine.

Also it shouldn't hit the body even if you hit a big dip. You might want to retighten the bolt.

iJimpanzee

Thanks, I'll take a look at it again when it's not raining.

Only problem I have now is "thunking" in the rear where they're tightened.
I think I've tightened them fully, but they make this harsh sound when I go over bigger bumps in the road =/
*I've already raised it once, so I might have to take some time and figure out what's making the sounds

ambit

I didn't even realize there was a gap there till I went back out and looked. Sure enough there's about 1/8" inch:


I've put almost 50,000mi on this setup so I'm pretty sure its ok
I did confirm the top nut is tight.


On the rears I had to remove the 1" long collar/tube that went around the top of the shock. That was banging against #90 over large bumps:

fookoo303

I had this same problem also. I had to add a washer to the top nut so that the rubber grommet would expand enough to hold it in tighter.

ronald7410

Do you hear any clanking or rattling when you hit hard bumps?

ronald7410

I would go to home depot and probably look for some washers to fill the gaps

phister

since this is such a common question, I wonder if the companies ever considered adding a thicker washer or a taller bracket to accommodate the gap. but adding another washer is usually a quick fix for the concern.

capt_paul

The problem with the gap is that if you look at the strut from on top when you push down on the car, you will see the gap increase. I would tend to think that this is taking away from the intent of the shock.

I temporarily remedied the problem by going to Home Depot and purchased 4 spacers (1/4 in by 2 1/2 in) and place one on each side of where the plate should make contact with the body. This got rid of the extra play.

I will probably get a couple of steel plates made to the correct dimensions as soon as I can make out the drawing and measurements to take to a metal shop.

I agree that Koni should have included some sort of spacer or new plate to take care of the problem. I will also send Koni technical department an email to see if they are aware of the problem.

FrankW

the control arms doesn't allow enough travel to let the strut fall out when the strut is attached to the hub if that is what you guys worried.

do not put anything below the plate. the macpherson strut rotates as the wheel turns. if you put something there it's going to jam the rotation.

iJimpanzee

What did you remove?

capt_paul

Frank,
If you look at the plate, it has notches that are supposed to fit to the nubs at the top of the "hat" when everthing is tightened down. Right now, the nut on top is fully tightened and is the notches on the plate. However, you get almost a 1/4 inch of play when you push down on the front of the car. On the OEM the plate is firmly attaching the top of the strut to the body, allowing the strut to do its job. The strut will still move because of the bearing, so I do not now what you mean that it is normal to have the gap. Sorry...I don't buy that.

fookoo303

i really don't think it supposed to make contact. If you turn the steering wheel you can see that it slightly moves around. If it was in contact it wouldn't be able to move freely. And if you look at the rubber piece on the body, I can bet you won't see any markings to indicate that there was ever contact.

phister

Well with the lower springs the strut hat sits lower now so when the strut is at full length its going to push the bolt and bracket here up then where it orginally use to sit, thats why there's a gap. So even if you hit a big dip or bump your car shouldn't travel enough to hit the bracket if its properly tightened. The bracket shouldnt move at all if you push down on your car since it should move in conjuction with the body if that makes sense. There shouldn't be any play at all even with the gap. So if you go and push down on your front end and the bracket is moving like its going to bottom out or hit the body then you haven't tightened the bolt down far enough or that the hat isnt tightened down all the way. If you read trutaing's tein coilover install he'll show you that he has a gap as well on his bracket. I'll even go and take a pic of mine to show the gap or make a video showing how it should look when you press down on your car.

splinter

Said clearance is always present while stationary.
The tabs are to retain the struts during their maximally-permissible extension/rebound, although they will often make contact during rebound damping cycles.
The springs’ static load height has no relevance to the OP’s query. :y

phister

Well I knew you would eventually turn up splinter to answer the question You're always the man for the suspension info.

FrankW

the bearing is there to "allow" the strut to rotate freely without metal on metal contact. without the bearing the strut would still rotate the same way regardless.

very top of the plate does not travel up and down when the strut bearing and hat is installed properly. obviously something is wrong here if yours is doing that.

however the gap there is normal and they are never suppose to touch the actual rubber stop at the top other than when the strut is turning/rotating when you turn the steering wheel OR when unloading/rebounding as splinter said.

capt_paul

I wish I took a picture of the plate before I remove the original struts. There was never, ever a gap present. The plate is fully tightened to the hat, so it cannot be tightened any more. When you tighten the nut on top of the strut, it is supposed to, in theory, pull the hat snugly into the strut recess. As long as there is a gap, you will get movement between the hat and the strut recess.

I know the strut won't just fall out because of the suspension geometry, and the strut hat will ride in the recess normally because of gravity. However, the gap allows the strut to ride the dimension of the gap during traveling down a road if you kit dips or other imperfections in the roadway.

After I installed the spacers between the plate and the body, any abnormal sounds were elliminated when going over obstacles. I still stand firmly that there should be no gap between the plate and the body.

If you look at the OEM setup in the car, there is no evidence of movement of the plate when pushing down on the car or when the steering is moving from left to right, nor is there any gap present at any time between the plate and the body of the car.

capt_paul

.....and, I do have the MB Maintenance DVD, so the install was done correctly. The DVD also provides information on how the steering and suspension operates, so I have knowledge of how the strut works.

Also, in previous installations on lowering springs/struts on other vehicles, there was never any increased gap on top of the strut. I have been working on vehicles for over 30 yrs and also have a aeronautical maintenance experience.

phister

Other vehicles as in other MBs... If you dont believe other members who have done springs and coilovers on their w203s and say that there will be a gap then why dont you reinstall the OEM springs and see if the bracket sits flush with koni struts and OEM springs combination.