hosedbenz

Just got a call back from the dealership's service manager with my service advisor present on speakerphone. I called 5+ hours ago so likely some time and prep went into this.

Their rationale for disassembling the engine without authorization was that I had authorized the $400 camshaft position sensor replacement, so having removed that part and not charged me for it, they decided to roll the extra labor into that same cost. The service advisor felt so strongly that the engine was no good that he saw no need for us to put more money into the car, ergo don't reassemble and charge me for it. As my wife just pointed out, this would be like paying a contractor to build you a deck and he decides instead to paint your house and charge you the same amount for it (or, in my case, a little more). All they had to do was cover their butts and call me. I would have authorized it and would have been prepared to pay for them to reassemble it. If they took it upon themselves to disassemble, they should have assembled it, period. Will be reiterating this fact when MBUSA calls me back tomorrow.

At any rate, I also had them fax me the technician notes, which are as follows. Looks like one bad cylinder and one maybe on the fence. Thoughts?

-------------------

Pushed car into shop, SDS Test

Coolant Thermostat
Misfire
MAF Codes
Intake Cam Shaft Sensor

Clear codes. Try to start. No start

Just cranks

Retest, intake sensoe fault. Checked power to sensor, OK

Need sensor to START.

Installed new sensor, cleared codes. Starts now

Car runs poorly. Check eng light back on

Compression test

Cyl 1 180 psi
Cyl 2 160 psi
Cyl 3 110 psi
Cyl 4 175 psi

Removed valve cover and inspect. Check Cam timing, WRONG and noisy when turning.

New Engine (parts only) $6500.00

fookoo303

I think you should talk to the general manager of the situation so that he is aware of it also.

Glyn M Ruck

OK! - now we have something to go on.

It's an inlet camshaft position sensor that was faulty & not CPS - this will cause no start (CPS is crankshaft position sensor)
P0128 = Thermostat stuck open & car not warming sufficiently - need new thermostat, cheap
MAF dirty or damaged - clean MAF

Valve timing wrong - needs to be confirmed!! - Chains do jump now and again on these engines - That needs checking. - Chain & sprockets are in good condition - we don't know how the tensioner looks

Don't know whether this is a wet or dry compression. One cylinder particularly bad. Either the fouled valve problem I mentioned above - or a bent valve due to timing jump - or just a burnt valve.

You now have to take some decisions. I would get an Indy to check valve timing to confirm if the chain has jumped & take the head off to check valves & make your decision depending on what is found. If the head is OK & all you need is a valve job & chains & tensioners this will not be too expensive to fix. If we find worse once head is off then you can decide what to do.

We will help you make this decision once you let us know what is found.

Good luck

mskembo

Glen, you are the man. I want to be like you if I every grow up

Hosed, I'd continue to seek resolution from MB USA first, but if they don't own the problem, then I'd file a very specific and reasonable complaint and go to an Indie to get it taken care of. Glen is right, your engine isn't gone. It's probably got a lot of life left in it. Worse case scenario your 1 bad cylinder is due to rings, and you need to have the some relatively minor work done there, but due to the timing issue, I would say that it is most likely just like Glen stated.

Make sure that MB USA and the Stealership know that you have this knowledge. If MB USA decides to own this problem (unlikely), then take it to another dealer if possible. If that is not possible, then I'd take it to an indie and pay him to search out and answer the questions asked by Glen. That way you have information with which you can hold the dealer's feet to the fire.

Good luck! Hopefully this all turns around for you!

Glyn M Ruck

I don't think we have a piston ring problem. The oil consumption is normal.

Unless Benz decide to help on the head - if that is the problem - I think it unlikely that they will come to the party on a car so far out of warranty.

mskembo

You're right, I didn't take the earlier oil consumption question into consideration. That's why we need you here! I also think it's unlikely that Benz is going to foot the bill for the whole thing, but they may step up in some manner to help him out. I typically like to work one angle to completion before I take steps that reduce my ability to pursue the first course.

Glyn M Ruck

If it is found to be a head issue I think you might have some leverage with Benz. They know it was a problem on early M271 engines.

Also - the camshaft position sensor that the dealer is talking about is NOT the cam magnets on the front of the engine that leak oil. That is another issue.

Apox

Damn, I wish I knew as much about cars as some of you guys in here
Good luck with having your MB fixed hosedbenz.

hosedbenz

Finally got on the line with the MB USA rep handling my complaint and told the story. Made sure to stress that I was only looking to be made whole - to have my vehicle back in the same non-working condition as when I first entrusted it to the dealership. I'm confident I have her on my side but she warns she can only advocate, not compel, a resolution. Asked how, in a perfect world, this would get resolved, I stated the dealership might refund my $520 so I can pay to transport and have an Indy reassemble the engine they tore open without my authorization, or, transport and reassemble it themselves free of any further cost to me. Ideally I do not want them touching my vehicle ever again and am hoping they will feel the same, but am trying to portray myself as the reasonable party.

Hoping my persistence pays off soon.

ncmudbug

Good luck, hosed. That's got to suque, but it sounds like you can have your car back after a competent wrench gets involved. Keep us informed.

Glyn M Ruck

Good luck!

sknight

My experience here is that MB USA won't step to the plate. They typically take the side of the dealer, though some small numbers get through with only a small amount of satisfaction measures. They usually stop short of claiming responsibility...

CHARLIE B

May I ask what Dealership did this?

Good luck with this , I too have been taken over the coals with the local dealership , and have since found a reputable independent shop where you can actually speak to the mechanic .
regards Charlie

sknight

It seems the majority of experiences with dealers are either neutral at best, or poor, but it persists because the vast majority do nothing about it. I don't mean the typical "the internet only reports the bad, not good", but there is a large amount of bad, worldwide, even here in Germany. I got told off by some guy in another thread because I was "fiddling about", while trying to get options. "Fiddling about" cut my repair cost from 1500 euros or more to 630, with a potential discount on top of that. My last experience with the dealer was them botching several jobs, incurring thousands in damage costs which they happily billed to my warranty, and even getting speeding tickets while delivering our car to exchange for the replacement auto they lent us.

If you don't put pressure on these people, they don't care, since they only see it as one person who will carry on with their lives. Treat them like the conartists they are, and things get better. Second and third opinions are your right. Not the irreversible destruction and disassembly of an engine to teach an apprentice hands on.

mleskovar

Wait a minute....why reassemble it? You'll only have to pay someone else to take it apart to the point it is now to diagnose it. You won't be driving it until it's repaired anyway.

Glyn M Ruck

+1

samaritrey

Remember that the dealers are not owned by mercedes so when i went through my issues mbusa finnaly said that they would pay the dealer to fix crap that they broke since the dealer would not take responsibility. GL keep us updated

sknight

Not in the US. Out here, the bulk are owned by Mercedes (Germany) and in the US, they're looking to start moving towards some dealerships owned by Mercedes. When that will finally happen is anyone's guess.

Glyn M Ruck

Yep. Benz now owns many of the dealers in SA. Best thing that ever happened here.

sknight

Any updates?

hosedbenz

A couple weeks ago MB USA tried to negotiate a resolution with the dealership but their offer -- reassembling the engine free of charge while I pay to tow it there and back -- was worthless. I saw no benefit to paying another ~$200 for round-trip towing so they could fix what they shouldn't have done or charged me for in the first place. I then set this matter aside for a while because it was starting to interfere with other things but when I got an e-mail from the dealership yesterday advertising specials on pre-owned C300s and recognized the reply e-mail address as belonging to the CEO, I pounced. I replied to him by name and told him if he really wanted me to consider buying another Mercedes from him he should call me and discuss what his service department did to the Benz I already own. He called me back from his personal cell phone about an hour later saying he was very concerned and asking if we could discuss it on Monday morning when he supposedly gets back into town (in other words, when he has a chance to match wits with his service manager and decide what to do about me). So we'll see what a fresh round of negotiations yields. All I am really trying to do is persist with them long enough that they'll get tired of me and give me some or all of my money back. It's all on principle. I really wouldn't want them touching my car.

As for the car, it remains in its spot, unchanged and as safe from the elements as it's going to get. As the weather gets warmer and the days get longer I will be preparing it for possible sale.

Thanks, everyone, for your continued interest in my issue!

ChrisBrown

Give us an update after you get another phone call.

hosedbenz

After 4 weeks of hard fighting, the dealership finally decided they wanted to make me happy. The first step, towing my vehicle to their shop on their own dime, was completed at about 8:30 this morning. Today or tomorrow they will be restoring the engine to its original non-running splendor, then they will deliver it back to my home. The dealership president has also extended an offer to help me find a buyer once the work is finished and also offered to keep the vehicle on site for a short time while that takes place. Haven't fully decided on that part yet, but I at least appreciated the offer.

So on that topic, does anyone have thoughts on an appropriate asking price for a 2003 C230 sport coupe, automatic, with 128k miles, newish tires, a windshield and brakes that could use replacement, and a panoramic moon roof in need of unknown repairs (it functions but something came out of alignment, so we have kept it closed for the last couple years out of fear it might one day not close)? Body is in good condition with no rust, and the interior, besides needing a good cleaning and detailing, is excellent. It got a new front suspension last summer. It Blue Books for between $6-7K USD, private sale, in "good" condition. In a perfect world I would like to try to get $3K USD.

mskembo

Where are you located at? I might be willing to make a deal with you (I'm mechanically inclined and am looking for a car to fix up for my daughter) PM me.

hosedbenz

The best offer the dealership could find on the wholesaler circuit was $1500 which, with the amount still remaining on the lien, was not even an option. So, they will be delivering my reassembled C230 back to my home tomorrow morning and I will try selling it myself on the private market, possibly after waiting a few more months for the payoff to shrink. Won the battle, losing the war...