breastroker

The doubling of the compressor discharge means much more heat developed, more than 100% more heat. Therefore the IC will have trouble cooling the air charge on anything near a hot day. Yesterday and today I went to work in the fog, 60 degrees and lots of power. It is 100 degrees no, the power is off maybe 20-25 HP!
An IC that removes more heat of compression will keep the HP nearly the same.

czachari

To keep the car from losing power and optimizing airflow maybe we need an IC identical to stock but water cooled instead of air-cooled. Has anyone looked at that?

CZ

breastroker

To keep the car from losing power and optimizing airflow maybe we need an IC identical to stock but water cooled instead of air-cooled. Has anyone looked at that?

This is a very good point. The C32 has a water cooled IC, half the work is where to mount the water cooling system, MB has already done this on the C32. Anyone have access to a C32 and can tell us or photo the MB parts used? Then we just but a water cooled IC and all the cooling system MB put in the C32. With ten times the heat transfer we could start some serious HP.

Just remember we still need larger inlet/outlet to the new water cooled IC, and we need to keep pressure drop as low as possible.

Outland

Thanks! Where does the 6lb-ft figure comefrom- what you see on the dyno? Or some formula?

That solves wether the 'chip' just goes to stage 3 on the ron setting? They need to find another 12HP somewhere else.

trench

Sorry, but the C/SLK32 water-to-air intercooler is quite a bit different. It would be very difficult to retrofit as the air-to-water intercooler is right before the intake manifold, nestled in the "V" of the V6. The water heated by the kompressed charge is then cooled by an addtional radiator that lives in the location of the air-to-air intercooler.

Considering the specificity of this particular intercooler for an M113 V6 application, I think a different air-to-water intercooler will have to be considered.

Cheers, BT

Buellwinkle

Why would you automatically assume that a water/air IC is better? Water/air IC's are much less effecient and the one used in the C32 has serious heat soak problems, worse than our cars by a long shot.

breastroker

Thank you trench,
Using the C32 stock parts with a water IC that fits where the #230K site could be done.

I envision the radiator 110/11 being mounted above the aluminum bumper rail and a new water cooled IC in the stock IC area.
The intercooler water pump M44 would be used, but I don't understand MB using the coolant tank 2 (shared with the engine radiator). That would mean the lowest water temp would be 180-200 degrees? I undersatnd the C32 compressor puts out 15 psi, but the engine would last a lot longer if the air after the IC were closer to 100 degrees.

Trench, is there a seperate chamber in the coolant tank?

Water can transfer ten times the energy of air, I just can't comprehend MB designing such a bad system

trench

My guess is that the intercooler and radiator simply share an overflow tank (too lazy to look for C32 motor pictures to see if there are two seperate tanks). The rest of the system is essentially separate.

Cheers, BT

breastroker

Trench,

So the water cooled IC on the C32 is just using the coolant tank as a surge vessel and pressure cap. The radiator - water IC and tubing are a seperate system. Too bad they didn't have a seperate coolant tank so that you could put ice in it.

Buellwinkle

The water/air IC radiator, pump and tank are truly the easiest part of the system. Have you determined if the heat exchanger at the intake will fit?

breastroker

Buell,
I don't think the water to air intercooler from the C32 will work at all for our application. We need a IC with compressed air inlet and cooled air outlet at different sides to the radiator so our stock hoses or larger than stock hoses can connect to it.

The C32 water to air intercooler (110/2) is under the V6 intake manifold and is very small. It appears to have the inlet and outlet hoses next to each other.

I checked Superchargers Online, they have a complete water IC for $1350 at http://www.superchargersonline.com/p...ber=V8N301-180

Air-to-water intercoolers are exposed to heat soak and produce fluctuating air temperatures, which raises the question "What temperature do you tune for?" Icewater? Water alone? Cool water or after it has been heated during racing or rush hour? Tuning for a lower air temperature can cause detonation and engine damage, while tuning for a higher temperature can cause drivability problems. With current air-to-water intercooler systems, engine protection is greatly diminished, and tuning is difficult at best.

breastroker

Here is a great link to an Australian article on intercoolers and spray misters. Well written and informative.
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_05...ntArticle.html

This looks like where Buell got his spray mister info, a great place to visit.

breastroker

From Eaton:
Why do you need a bypass valve? The best kept secret in forced induction is the little known bypass valve. This small valve, when properly installed between the supercharger and the air throttle body, allows the supercharger to become extremely efficient in terms of economy and parasitic power loss. Our M90 supercharger uses less than 1/3 of 1 HP at 60 MPH cruising. The bypass is operated by a vacuum actuator control unit that is normally closed. When vacuum is high (idle-cruising) the actuator opens the bypass valve, equalizing the vacuum pressure throughout the system. When boost is required (accelerating) the vacuum is decreased and the bypass valve instantly closes, causing pressure to increase into the cylinders. This equalized vacuum condition virtually eliminates the normal parasitic power loss of a forced induction system.

No mention of adding boost in any way. I do not know how powerchip can get more boost.

trench

As Buell mentioned in another thread, they can get more boost if they reset the rev-limiter to exceed the current redline.

Not particularly useful in my opinion.

Cheers, BT

Buellwinkle

That's where I got my Labtronics IC mister controller, haven't installed it yet.

breastroker

Buell,
Document which wire goes to where. The labtronics is reasonably priced and should work. I still think you only need one mister and not two.

The water cooled IC is a greatr idea for a race car or one with higher boost, but our simple air cooler ICs have a lot of advantages. There must be a reason the WRXs keep air cooling even beyond 400HP!

All I want is 250 HP out of 1.8 liters, a nice wish.

czachari

Out of our 1.8L cars. Especially with the weight savings that the 1.8L affords us. I wouldn't mind spending up to $2K to achieve that figure......

CZ

DCXdynodog

That number comes from recent cal work done on a similar engine.
(2.4 liter 215 HP)
We do cals for different fuels on the same engine many times.

It certainly could vary a little due to slight combustion chamber differences and such, but not enough to explain the extra 12 .

Now, I read a post where someone thinks they may take the rev limit up. That would change the boost and the torque increase at higher speed would yield even more HP (HP=T*RPM/5252) so maybe they get what they claim that way, but not from fuel/spark settings alone.

breastroker

Actually I really want 20 more HP at 3000 RPM and 25 at 4000. That is right where I need it on the freeway.

I would bet the 1.8 engine supercharger is not maxed out (14,000 rpm) at engine max rpm. So a pulley of some kind will get more out of the M271 engine. We just have to get someone to make us a reliable pulley.

Anyone up to measuring supercharger movement vs. crankshaft?
Just mark each and turn the crank.