avlis

I pulled the sub out from it's hiding spot tonight. They call this thing a subwoofer? It's a tiny, cheap, 4" x 6" oval speaker in a plastic enclosure. 2 wires. I think I'm going to start shopping for a replacement. Someone here said the speaker is 2.3 ohm. I'll try to take the speaker out later to see if there's a label on the voice coil.

Here's an overall picture. I have more detailed pics here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4292046119
if anyone is interested. There are tons of fiber cables back there that lead to no where...

BTW: Theres an unused 25 pin d-sub connector wrapped in a foam "bag" stuffed behind the sub. Is this another Tele-aid piece? (I don't have tele-aid)

Bos

By all means, post more pictures. Since Bose is fairly well known for the wave radio and it's baffled / ported enclosure, this looks like they took the same approach. Although the speaker is quite small, the overall enclosure is pretty good size in comparision.

chuckd94

I don't know how bose stacks up with car audio, but it has a very poor reputation for home theatre/stereo. IMHO I think it is severly overpriced, this could be another example of that.

TimmyC230boy

I have to disagree with ya there pal, Bose is one of the best out there. The are right up there with infinity and alpine. But i guess it all depends on what you have had in the past. My camaro had a monsoon system and the Bose in the Merc kills it. ok, so the bass is a little whimpy, but when your doing 75 with the roof open the nice hum of the engine does just fine for me.

VoyagerDude

Now we're talking...

:p

vadim

Yet another example of a brain-washed youth... To educate yourself on this topic, do yourself a favor and look up "Acoustic Research", "B&W", "Boston Acoustics", "Tannoy" to name a few... Bose doesn't even come close to this level.

Flashman

I'm a little biased here, cause I had a friend who was a Bose engineer when I lived in Massachusetts.

You know, contrary to what speaker marketing tries to convince you, acoustics is a science, not an art. Tons of companies make better speakers than Bose, because they spend more on them. Bose is a marketing company that does better-than-average speaker/sound system design for the mass consumer at the same price point. Their manufacturing quantities are fantastically high.

That puts them in the middle if you compare them to any brand of audio, but in the highest end of the mass-producers. I'm sure some low quantity speaker maker (a run of 2,000 or so) can make a better speaker than a 100,000 run Bose speaker. However, I doubt any other 100,000 run speaker maker can beat Bose (at the same price point).

What Bose does with car audio systems is offer the best possible audio system based on the BUDGET of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer gives them $100 dollars, you get $100 worth of upgrades. If they get $500, it gets better. If they get $1,000, it gets fantastic.

In the case of the C230... think about it, MB charges $610 for this option. Take 10% off for dealer, then divide by 5 for manufacturing/installation cost and MB profit (using higher end of the typical 3 to 5 manufacturing cost/profit divider you learn in business school). You end up roughly with $100 left over to pay for the upgraded parts Bose is supplying.

Honestly, I think the C230 Bose system is an AMAZING improvement for $100. Imagine if they had had $500 to play with! Other car audio systems are only better because more was spent on them.

In other words, Bose COULD have built a much better system, but like any tuner, they are limited to the manufacturer's budget. I'm sure if MB wanted to offer a $1,500 audio system, giving Bose $500, the results would be nothing short of amazing. Blame MB for this marketing/design choice, not Bose.

Mike E

Flashman,
I'm with you on this Bose thing. If you consider the size (occupied space), weight and price of the Bose system components vs. the sound quality, I would contend that there is nothing you could buy that would match that combination of variables. The only way to improve the sound is to add weight to the car or take up valuable cargo / passenger space or spend MUCH! more money or, more likely, all three. After making those kind of trade-offs if the sound is not improved then you have a problem. I think it's amazing that Bose can produce as much acoustic output in the bass frequency range as they do with a speaker / enclosure combo that takes so little space and adds so little weight to the car. Aren't space and weight important considerations in the design of an automobile?

MB-BOB

Dumb question 'cause I want to learn something here. For those who dislike the subwoofer in the Coupe, have you driven the car with the package shelf removed? If so, does the sound improve with the shelf removed?

I understand there is no grill in the package shelf to let sound enter the cabin space, so I'm wondering if it's reasonable to expect good sound from this speaker without better exposing it to the cabin.

Of course, driving without the shelf has its own drawbacks (privacy, mostly) but if the sound means that much to you... Has anyone thought of cutting a hole in the shelf and covering it with a nice Bose (or other) speaker grill?

Just curious. I'd like to see you folks get the most from your Bose systems, as I realy enjoy mine in the sedan, but realize they're different designs.

dasMafia

now I'm drooling...

I'ma big BA fan myself... we use them in most mobile applications I've done (one for me, two for dad, one for my brother) and I am elated with the results... there are better out there... but I like the bostons and they are at a good price-point.

I use a lot of AR stuff at home... very good for the price. McIntosh is beyond me, as are most of other audiophile grade stuff, but AR and BA represent an EXCELLENT compromise in price for the discerning ear.

BOSE blows in every application I've experienced... sometimes more or less than others.

I'm preparing a new setup with bostons for the Z3... this one is gonna hurt my checkbook bigtime.

dasMafia

while I can't speak directly for the "quality" of the sound you experience (the purity of the wave, etc...) it will be "fuller" and smoother with the shelf in place.

the shelf acts to create a second eclosure where the waves are subject to constructive interference AND the shelf will slow down the waves (imperceptively to the ear) and that allows a fuller sound to come through.

EXAMPLE... I have a simple 3-speaker sytem hooked up to my computer in my study... 2 composites and a sub. while I'm in here working withe the door (french) closed, it sounds nice and clear and full... but my wife hears it as "boomy" in the other room since the room acts as a secondary enclosure and the door slows the exit of the sound into the living room.

I can't put all the right terms with it (its been 5-years since physics... I went to B-school), but this is the general idea.

MB-BOB

Young, what I'm trying to imagine is... after squeezing himself into that Z3, where does dasMafia have any extra room for speaker upgrades of any kind?

dasMafia

easy... 5.25" compenents in the kick-panels (tweeters at top-front corner of door panel) 4-inch coaxials behinid each seat, and a DVC 8-inch sub in the trunk (JL 8W3). the sub will port through the original woffer enclosure that sits between the seats.

the trick is finding somewhere to mount the amp... probably along the front wall of th trunk. using a 5-channel Alpine (decent amp on close-out) or a 6-channel ADS (PAIN in my wallet but SWEET). the full-range speakers are BAs although the installer is pushing for "Focals" (??).

the install part is only going to be about $400 or so, the rest is parts. the trick is to use the stock locations, of which I have 7.

avlis

I still have all the trim pieces removed and the seats folded down. I don't notice a difference except tons of road noise (damn, that insulation works wonders). This makes sense because I always thought low frequencies were omnidirectional and didn't need to be aimed or vented to the cabin.

For the record, my take on the subwoofer is that it produces low tones but without punch or precision. Sure it's amazing that the little speaker can produce those frequencies but a 4x6 doesn't move any air. I prefer to feel bass rather then hear it. I can feel the door speakers more than the sub.

I'm thinking about going with an Infinity Basslink. Anyone have any comments about this?

dasMafia

thats a pretty decent piece for the money... about the only one I'd consider in the class... you would be better off with a single 8- or 10-inch in a custom enclosure with a simple 1-channel amp... probably run you about $350-400.

Richard

The fibre cables are for the phone controller and probably the voice recognition.

The 25 way D type is the phone controller connection aswell.

Theres possibly a 9 way d-type somewhere there for the voice recognition, or perhaps thats somewhere completely different !

R

avlis

Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into that. I'd like to have something that I can easily unplug and remove when I need the room in the hatch. I might be able to squeeze an amp in the area where the first-aid kit lives. Then I'd only have to deal with the speaker wire when I need to remove the box.

This place is selling Basslinks for $260.00 seems like a deal:
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/INFBASSLINK

avlis

I pulled the speaker out of the enclosure to see what it looked like. The magnet is actually quite large. There is no label for the impedence. Here's a pic:

avlis

another

mdp c230k

We could all argue about audiophile issues all day long, but the question is about the woofer Bose uses here. Do NOT replace this woofer. It is a very special long, long throw, large voicecoil, stiff coned, low Fs woofer. The 2.7ohm reading is a DC resistance measurement, not AC. It is a 4ohm impedance woofer. The woofer is designed to work in the transmission line encosure(plastic box) specifically. It is a function of the 1/4 wavelength of the resonant freq desired. I could go deeper but you get the idea! To make sound you must move air, the louder the more air, the lower freq the more air. The air moved is determined by the cone size Sd and the throw Xm. A small woofer can only move so far before it reaches its limit. Thus, the total output is limited by these factors, not amp power(assuming you have a good amp). Once the max is reached no amount of power with make it any louder. The Bose system is also EQ'ed to rolloff the lowest freqs and punch up the midbass making it sound louder because the woofer no longer has to strugle with the long excursions needed by the lowest of freqs. There are better systems out there, but not in that size of an enclosure and that much power. Happy Listening!

goodkat

LOL!!! Finer words never spoken. My tinny crap setup will be removed, dismembered and strewn about the Garden State Parkway within two weeks! I'll be putting in the setup I had in my '91 Celica: Sony MD head, MB Quart speakers, JL Audio 12" sub, and two Xtant amps to drive it all :0)))

Larry

vadim

This sounds very nice. Wish the Bose's implementation of this marvelous sound device was just as accurate as this description. Or did they make a few "minor" mistakes in their calculations? Or maybe they haven't done any field testing?

Just put a bass-rich CD in your changer/COMAND, stick your head in the trunk and listen. I've never heard a crappier subwoofer - even at moderate sound levels it seems to produce nothing but a mix of parasite resonsnce sounds.

avlis

I don't plan on putting a different speaker in the Bose enclosure. I'd do away with the entire sub alltogether and replace it with an aftermarket amp/sub. I'd be nice to use the 2 wires going into the bose sub as the speaker-level inputs on the new amp. Can I do this?

mdp c230k

Yes, but remember, there is more than likely an eq on the amp that drives the Bose sub. This means your new setup will get the same eq if you use the speaker level inputs to a new amp. This may be good, may be bad, depending on how much is been done on the eq. I think it might be OK as most of what Bose would do would help make a new setup sound more 'punchy' rather than pipeorgan low. Remember in your new setup that big woofers do not work in really small boxes. You are better off with a nice 8" than a cramped 12" woofer and there is no such thing as too much power. You should make sure any amp you buy can put out twice the power into 2ohms as it does in 4ohms. This is a measure of the amps build quality, it takes twice the current to drive a 2ohm load. Current is like torque, watts like HP. To really slam a woofer(get off the like quickly) you want current/torque, get it? I'll be glad to answer any specifics if you wish, I've got 20 years of very high end experience behind me.

mdp c230k

Actually, the sound waves do not get slowed down, they get filtered and loose acoustic power. The wife example shows that only the higher energy waves(low freq) can reach her through the walls while the lower energy(high freq) waves do not have enough power to move the air where she is. Carpet, drapes, the package shelf all absorb high freq sound waves. Also hallways are great for low freq resonators, the air in them vibrates at specific freqs related to their dimentions making that annoying one note bass thump your wife hears. A 'slowing' of the sound would cause Doppler Shift, like when an ambulance siren is going away from you. Also if the sound was slowing then wouldnt it have to keep playing for her after it finished for you?! Just kidding!!