adamrs80

In case anybody is interested in finding an intercooler for our cars this company might have something for us. I haven't spent much time looking around the site and I'm not sure of the dimensions we would need for an intercooler but I thought some of us might be interested. Here is the sitewww.bellintercoolers.com It might be possible to get a group buy going. Just a thought.

levelr123g

yea i already have an intercooler with that core design. i have the renntech intercooler, do you want to buy it? i dont have my 2002 c230 anymore, but ti still do have the intercooler.

czachari

How easy is it? Please PM me with asking price. Thanks

Buellwinkle

Count on it taking 3-4 hours for a first timer, taking your time. It's not difficult but time consuming. I've done it many times so feel free to ask any questions. Basically, remove the bumper cover, remove the old IC, install the new IC and put the bumper cover back on. I can now do it in an hour.

breastroker

adamrs80,
The Renntech with better end caps or the race tech would both work for the 2002.

I believe the Bell intercooler with a core of 3.5 x 6 x 24 with top and bottom tanks would have the best cooling and lowest pressure drop for the 2003 engines. Just depends on how thick the top/bottom caps are. Mark says we can go to seven inches for heigths.

Lynn

There is no 3.5x6x24. The shortest 3.5 inch thick core is 8 inches tall.

What do we need for a CFM rating?

breastroker

Lynn is right. The intercooler would look something like the lower IC.

Buellwinkle

Yes, that looks like a nice top/down flow IC, wonder how well it will do. If whoever buys it is in So Cal I can help them measure intake air temps, timing advance and boost gain/lost.

levelr123g

hmmm
everyone here continues to talk about different end caps, etc for the renntech intercooler. it pisses me off that people continue to have this beleif that the renntech intercooler doesnt work well or is not efficient. until someone builds a better mousetrap or takes the time to invest in the time/money aspect of it , the renntech intercooler i beleive is the only option for this car at this time? there has been no dyno runs, measurements, or anything else to validate that the renntech doesnt work. i know this will start another flame war but oh well we are known for that. even people here on this board who have supposedly tried other intercoolers, if the work so much better then why havent we seen everyone jump on them? i beleive i got more boost availiable to the engine using the renntech and a stock setup. the guage tells the story, and my car ran much better.

levelr123g

here is a link to the entire thread

http://www.csportcoupe.com/forums/sh...ighlight=boost

Buellwinkle

Hate to break it to you buddy but I did spend a lot of dyno time with GIAC testing the Renntech and the Racetec IC's. Forget the technical reason or speculation about boost, turbulance, airflow or any of that stuff. The true fact, both lost significant power when cold compared to the stock IC and both didn't overcome their power loses until the 3rd run and the factory IC was heatsoaked at about 170F and the aftermarket IC's reached about 140F. I got the same cooling effect using a pair of IC misters and even then the HP difference was about 5 when the IC was 140F vs. 170F but obviously didn't lose any HP when cold. Don't even know if it did get me 5 HP at best if it would justify $999. If the Racetec worked out they would be selling it know and I would have one in my car. Contrary to popular belief I don't enjoy reporting the bad news, specially when I could of had one for free. But even for free it's not worth the power losses and certainly not for $700-1000.

Now if someone builds a better mousetrap I'm all for helping them with installation or testing in the interest of science.

levelr123g

ok but you tested them stationary, not moving. i would bet that the larger intercooler would offer gains over the stock intercooler on a 100 degree day driving 60-70 mph and gettin on it. the fact is that you cannot provide enough airflow through the ic on the dyno to see any real signifigant gains. why not just build an igloo cooler for it.

Buellwinkle

You are correct, even though we had 2 huge fans and 2 smaller more concentrated blowers. But in real life testing measuring IAT you don't even come close to reaching the high temps on a dyno and the factory is very effective at cooling down once at speed. So the benefit, if any, would be on a close circuit road course where you constantly on the throttle and brakes.

For example, on a dyno it takes about 20 minutes for the IC and blower for intake air temps to cool down again for another equal run. In real life at freeway speeds the equivalent drop in intake air temps with the stock IC are achieved in about a minute. So the dyno exagerates these numbers in favor of better cooling effeciency, yet even when the factory IC was more heat soaked than possible on the road it still performed as good or better than with an aftermarket IC and better cooling. The problem is the aftermarket IC is starting off down 9HP when cold so it has to prevent the future loss of 9HP when hot just to break even, and it does. On the road I don't even think that's possible to recoupe that loss.

mig888

bumped.

So once again - the stock intercooler dimensions were what guys?

flip

mig888

bump!

Yep, question might as well be directly pointed at Buell .

flip

Osirisman

so which intercooler would bring best performance?
and where can i buy it? also what dimensions?
thx

Osirisman

so which intercooler would bring best performance?
and where can i buy it? also what dimensions?
thx

Osirisman

so which intercooler would bring best performance?
and where can i buy it? also what dimensions?
thx

Buellwinkle

OK, you asked me three times so I have to tell you the truth. The factory intercooler will give you the best performance. If your's fell off, check salvage yards, they'll sell you another one. Worst case, go to the dealer, they can order one for you. As for the dimensions you can search the forum, I posted that about 4 years ago, but just rough size, about arms length long, 5 or so inches high and about 2 1/2 inches thick.

raklert

Your comment about stock IC is interesting. What about a very hot day, how would the stock IC perform compares to an aftermarket ones? From my experienced with turbo cars, a huge front mount doesn't increase your hp but allow you to raise boost to increase Hp. With supercharger is different you cant play around with boost like you do on turbo cars, so a bigger more efficient intercooler will give you few hp for cooler temp at the expense of decreased airflow and pressure drop. I think this is really depends on what model of 203 ya driving. Like mine C200K with Kleeman pulley only pulls 0.8bar while the stock C230 pulls 13psi from stock Blower. If the stock IC on my C200K is the same as the C230 then i see no reason to change them, but looks only.

Buellwinkle

Exactly, that's why it's a big plus on turbo cars, you are very limited on a s/c car, the boost you get is it, no easy fix. Some cars you can do a pulley kit but on the M271 motor you are maxed out. So if you sacrafice boost to lower temps it's a losss. As for outside temps, keep in mind that we did a dyno indoors and the car was stationary, it's as bad as it gets, outdoors when you are going 50mph the wind is hitting the ic at 50mph. Also consider that air cooled IC's are based on ambient temp, so a bigger IC at 100F ambient is going to have the same problems as a small IC at 100F. The only thing you can do at that point is refrigerate the IC or put dry ice on it like at the drag strip but you are talking about a daily driver not for one shot drag racing right?

So what can you do with unlimited resources and untapped brainpower? You can put in a water cooled IC as the water is cooled at the intake manifold so there's little to no pressure loss. They don't cool anywhere are well as air cooled but the low pressure loss is the key. Now before you think this is easy, you have to be able to fabricate your own intake manifold with an imbedded intercooler.

raklert

Nah thats ok bro, I think i will stick with my stock IC
but thats interesting idea indeed.

Midnight Koop

so you said the m271 uses max boost (as i've heard from others)... and a pulley kit isn't possible? i saw that kleeman makes a pulley kit for the m271 for the 1.8L c180 and c200... but i didn't notice anything for the c230. if the c230 runs at max boost, then what additional help can a pulley kit do?

the reason i am asking is because i noticed that some users have an m271 c230 with a kleeman pulley and i dont understand how it the boost can increase if it is already maxed out in their cars.

thanks!