understeer
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
2003 MB C230K Sports Sedan
Originally posted by pcbchow
wow dont know the pressure of the tires can make hell lots of different
since I've got wider tires at the rear (235), whats the optimal pressure??
wow dont know the pressure of the tires can make hell lots of different
since I've got wider tires at the rear (235), whats the optimal pressure??
-Alex
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs
Audi 80 Quattro (with a couple of modifications)
Originally posted by FrankW
rowdy audi, you have no idea wat u r talking about.
i agree wit kwik, i think you just took the turn too fast. Yes, 203 still has understeer going into the corner even for the C32, but it's not enough a reason for you to blame on running into the curb. ESP is not gonna save you when you already lost it to the law of physics. It's meant to keep you save when you are still on in the line.
the slk is based on the shortened 202 chassi which the overall length is shorter & lower than the c-coupe and the track is wider, of course it'll handle better. heck, a new Mini CooperS with it's 4 wheels sit at each corner is a better handling car then even most of the sports car on the road.
rowdy audi, you have no idea wat u r talking about.
i agree wit kwik, i think you just took the turn too fast. Yes, 203 still has understeer going into the corner even for the C32, but it's not enough a reason for you to blame on running into the curb. ESP is not gonna save you when you already lost it to the law of physics. It's meant to keep you save when you are still on in the line.
the slk is based on the shortened 202 chassi which the overall length is shorter & lower than the c-coupe and the track is wider, of course it'll handle better. heck, a new Mini CooperS with it's 4 wheels sit at each corner is a better handling car then even most of the sports car on the road.
That's kinda interesting... You say I have no idea what I'm talking about, or as you say "no idea wat u r talking about" and then go on to basicly agree with me. Did you fail english??? But that's not the point. I still stand my position in saying the w203 is still the worst handleing of all the new Mercedes. pcbchow still took the corner to fast for his car. But the w203 is still a poor handleing car.
Last edited by Rowdy Audi; Jun 16, 2003 at 10:11 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 0
From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
It is not understeer if you turn and the car goes straight. That is called loss of traction and going to fast for the road conditions. Understeer is noticed in high speed cornering. The car does not follow the intended path properly, bu that does not include pushing the vehicle past the intended limits of the rubber on the ground. Many things can cause tires to not grab well, and to be honest you may have lived there all your life, but road conditions can change in a matter of seconds, due to the oil and other crap in the pavement and on it. I don't care how many times a person turns the same corner, the road can change in the amount of time it takes you to turn around and come back to do it again. I have never had a problem with understeer or aver steer. I did over rotate the ***-end because of a heavy foot once, but I learned from it and did not hit the curb, thankfully. I was using rear-steer for my turn though. Which it seems would have worked out much better for you.
Newbie
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Originally posted by pcbchow
When I go about telling my friends about this understeer, lots of them saying that I was driving too fast, but when I had my SLK it wasnt a problem at all???
When I go about telling my friends about this understeer, lots of them saying that I was driving too fast, but when I had my SLK it wasnt a problem at all???
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,924
Likes: 1
From: Sitting behind thing freakin desk of mine. Dreaming I was playing my Taylors, and driving my Benz. Long Live The VRAA!!!!!!
C230 Sports Coupe
I have some cheap Kumho's on mine. I actually have a plus-0 size on it. A 225 on a 16 rim, instead of the 205's that are stock. I run the preasure at 32F 34R. I have a hard time breaking the car loose( ESP OFF) or making it understeer. You just have to know how fast you can go. When you are developing understeer, hit the brakes and get more weight over the front tires. When developing oversteer, the back end has lost traction and it trying to swap ends withthe front. You have to keep the wheel spinning till you can get the car fairly straight then cut back on the throttle just enough to let the wheels hook-up. if you let the rears catch traction while you are countersteering hard, you will throw yourself in the opposite direction and have to correct it again.
I believe you may have been going too fast as well.
I believe you may have been going too fast as well.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 342
From: Charlotte, NC
Had: 1987 300TD, Had: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, Have: 2014 E350 Sport, Have: 2019 S450
In order to prevent damage due to understeer . . . first attend a driver's school. Better yet, attend several. Learn about contact patches, weight transfer, and smoothness.
The 203 does understeer at the limit . . . the operative phrase being "at the limit". If you are understeering on the road, then you are not only endangering yourself, but anyone else (and their family) who is on the road at the same time as you. Under 9/10ths cornering, the car is very composed and precisely controllable.
Most likely, the cause of the understeer was driver-induced. That is, the driver probably entered the corner under moderate to full-throttle, the weight was transferred to the rear tires, and the front just plowed off. ESP helps, but can't overcome a driver who commands the car to do something irrational.
Even on high-speed corners, it is frequently necessary to brush the brakes, in order to set the nose down, and get the weight over the front tires at turn-in. Then the throttle can be picked up again.
Schools like TrackTime and CarGuys will teach you the methods of driving quickly AND safely. You'll be much safer if you learn what you're doing (and so will we).
The 203 does understeer at the limit . . . the operative phrase being "at the limit". If you are understeering on the road, then you are not only endangering yourself, but anyone else (and their family) who is on the road at the same time as you. Under 9/10ths cornering, the car is very composed and precisely controllable.
Most likely, the cause of the understeer was driver-induced. That is, the driver probably entered the corner under moderate to full-throttle, the weight was transferred to the rear tires, and the front just plowed off. ESP helps, but can't overcome a driver who commands the car to do something irrational.
Even on high-speed corners, it is frequently necessary to brush the brakes, in order to set the nose down, and get the weight over the front tires at turn-in. Then the throttle can be picked up again.
Schools like TrackTime and CarGuys will teach you the methods of driving quickly AND safely. You'll be much safer if you learn what you're doing (and so will we).
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Dublin, CA
2003 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan/2008 M3 Coupe M-DCT/1996 328i (Gone)/1988 190E 2.3 (Gone)
My MBZ dealer is sending both my wife and I to their 8 hours long "Driving Dynamics Course" fully paid. We'd a couple of those with the BMW CCA over the past year & it's a must for anyone.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Ford
Can't blame him
Hi
I know I am a little off topic but...
I was once in Hong Kong (if that is where you are)
The roads are pretty tight, I once follow a crazy yellow bus down the hill trying to tailgate it.. whew...it was tight...
heh..heh
Definely need a super good car for these kind of turns...
No ESP will save you... Speed is the only thing.
Damn those yellow bus drivers are good...
^_^
Still saving for my first mb..
I know I am a little off topic but...
I was once in Hong Kong (if that is where you are)
The roads are pretty tight, I once follow a crazy yellow bus down the hill trying to tailgate it.. whew...it was tight...
heh..heh
Definely need a super good car for these kind of turns...
No ESP will save you... Speed is the only thing.
Damn those yellow bus drivers are good...
^_^
Still saving for my first mb..
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
actually-
You took the corner too fast which caused the weight transfer of the car to push the tires onto the shoulder blocks causing you to loose traction.
This isn't understeer! It's bad driving.
Also, don't lower you pressures. Find a tire with stiffer sidewalls, and increase the pressure in the front tire to help counter understeer. I was running 38F 33R on the street. This helped a lot.
Tirerack.com has a lot of good writeups, GO READ.
The S-03s are great tires. I have been autocrossing on them and at significant speeds you still experience and push because of the weight of the car but with the tire pressures I suggested I it counters it.
You took the corner too fast which caused the weight transfer of the car to push the tires onto the shoulder blocks causing you to loose traction.
This isn't understeer! It's bad driving.
Also, don't lower you pressures. Find a tire with stiffer sidewalls, and increase the pressure in the front tire to help counter understeer. I was running 38F 33R on the street. This helped a lot.
Tirerack.com has a lot of good writeups, GO READ.
The S-03s are great tires. I have been autocrossing on them and at significant speeds you still experience and push because of the weight of the car but with the tire pressures I suggested I it counters it.
Last edited by nukblazi; Jun 18, 2003 at 08:49 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
C200K
Originally posted by nukblazi
Also, don't lower you pressures. Find a tire with stiffer sidewalls, and increase the pressure in the front tire to help counter understeer. I was running 38F 33R on the street. This helped a lot.
Also, don't lower you pressures. Find a tire with stiffer sidewalls, and increase the pressure in the front tire to help counter understeer. I was running 38F 33R on the street. This helped a lot.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
Originally posted by pcbchow
What is the size of your tyres??
What is the size of your tyres??
245/40/17 R
I am not trying to be critical or condescending. Go to tirerack, and look for information on tire pressures. I'll post a link later incase you can't find anything but they have one of the best written pieces on this I've found. Really clear and accurate. I don't have enough time now to navigate and find it.
Thomas
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco Bay Area
MB C230K
Originally posted by c230 sport
My MBZ dealer is sending both my wife and I to their 8 hours long "Driving Dynamics Course" fully paid. We'd a couple of those with the BMW CCA over the past year & it's a must for anyone.
My MBZ dealer is sending both my wife and I to their 8 hours long "Driving Dynamics Course" fully paid. We'd a couple of those with the BMW CCA over the past year & it's a must for anyone.
--S
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
Originally posted by tommy
Bwah hahahahahaha...
Yeah, I know I come off wrong sometimes...
Did we have trouble finding the write up on tirerack? http://tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/c...n/racepres.htm
There is a little section that has the headers, Adjustment, Decrease Understeer, Decrease Oversteer. That some decent info, generic, but enough of a lead to understand the effects of tire pressure, which is significant!!!!
Tommy, how was the wedding
Call or PM me... 
We need to get the ball rolling on the next gtg!
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
C200K
Before I change to the present S03 I used to keep the pressure at 34 (both front and rear). Actually I wasnt sure what the pressure was on these S03, as I just got them for about one month.
Anyway I believe when the tires warm keep the traction is better, as I just pull my car out of the gargae that day, they were still cold
I just wanna get my car back asap
Anyway I believe when the tires warm keep the traction is better, as I just pull my car out of the gargae that day, they were still cold
I just wanna get my car back asap
Last edited by pcbchow; Jun 19, 2003 at 05:24 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
C200K
After 20 days my car is finally ready for rock n roll again 
If you have read other forum you know I've got a ring pulley from Kleemann
I hope to put some pics of my car later on when it is fitted....
If you have read other forum you know I've got a ring pulley from Kleemann
I hope to put some pics of my car later on when it is fitted....
Super Moderator Alumni
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,684
Likes: 12
From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
So I'm bringing up this old "understeer" thread because I was doing some research on what the "ideal" settings would be for adjusting the dampers on a rear-wheel drive car. Since I never really worked on or tuned a rear wheel drive car before, I really wasn't sure if there would be a difference.
Understeer is a problem than many people have with the w203, but now that I have adjustable dampers, I figured I'd look for the "perfect" setting, so that I can set up my SS's appropriately.
In doing my research (and still looking), I came up with this link:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.c.../handling.html
It's very general terms, but for those that don't quite understand how to "tune" a suspension properly, I think it's a good general 411 link to have. Well, back to my research.
drex
Understeer is a problem than many people have with the w203, but now that I have adjustable dampers, I figured I'd look for the "perfect" setting, so that I can set up my SS's appropriately.
In doing my research (and still looking), I came up with this link:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.c.../handling.html
It's very general terms, but for those that don't quite understand how to "tune" a suspension properly, I think it's a good general 411 link to have. Well, back to my research.
drex
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
C 230K Coupé
I would agree that the w203 isn't the best handling sport sedan but it's still very good. It gets a lot of understeer through hard cornering but it's manageable. Just gotta remember that you can't throttle you're way out. Ease of the gas and let the car regain some traction.
I've driven my mom's 325i and the handling of it totally surpasses the w203. It feels a lot more balanced through the turns.
This is just my opinion, I still lack a lot of experiene in driving compared to other members, but this is just my 2 cents...
I've driven my mom's 325i and the handling of it totally surpasses the w203. It feels a lot more balanced through the turns.
This is just my opinion, I still lack a lot of experiene in driving compared to other members, but this is just my 2 cents...
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
'14 CLA 45
Originally Posted by r3v1ls
I would agree that the w203 isn't the best handling sport sedan but it's still very good. It gets a lot of understeer through hard cornering but it's manageable. Just gotta remember that you can't throttle you're way out. Ease of the gas and let the car regain some traction.
I've driven my mom's 325i and the handling of it totally surpasses the w203. It feels a lot more balanced through the turns.
This is just my opinion, I still lack a lot of experiene in driving compared to other members, but this is just my 2 cents...
I've driven my mom's 325i and the handling of it totally surpasses the w203. It feels a lot more balanced through the turns.
This is just my opinion, I still lack a lot of experiene in driving compared to other members, but this is just my 2 cents...
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
C 230K Coupé
if the w203 would just have a handbreak rather than a footbreak you could force it into oversteer and decrease the radius you would have with just settling the gas (understeer) and letting it regain grip. one american roads you have the room for that sometimes
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
'14 CLA 45
Originally Posted by r3v1ls
Yah I've thought about that a lot. A handbreak would make this care a lot of fun. Though a car that's prone to understeer doesn't control very well when oversteered. I don't think I've ever been able to oversteer my car...
i think its just knowing your car in and out and then that shouldnt be a problem, but much more knowing what to do in a situation which gives you only split seconds to react.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 0
A box on 4 wheels
I actually love the way this car handles you must be taking turns much too hard and fast. I've hit turnbull canyon and East Hill road quite hard and I'm able to control my car before it understeers. Know the limits for your car and make sure you slam good tires on your car. If you have cheap low rated tires on a car with coilovers, swaybars, strut bar, etc it'll still understeer since the mods you installed wont even be able to come into play just because your tires dont stick enough.
Super Moderator Alumni
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,684
Likes: 12
From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Originally Posted by Cappa26
I actually love the way this car handles you must be taking turns much too hard and fast. I've hit turnbull canyon and East Hill road quite hard and I'm able to control my car before it understeers. Know the limits for your car and make sure you slam good tires on your car. If you have cheap low rated tires on a car with coilovers, swaybars, strut bar, etc it'll still understeer since the mods you installed wont even be able to come into play just because your tires dont stick enough.
Also, the reason I revived this thread was to give people a helpful link for questions they may have about adjusting suspension (for understeer) and also so that people can see that there are OLD threads that are still available that can be "revived" to open up for discussion (instead of starting redundant "new" threads).
Anyways, just wanted to point this out before people jump on the person who originally started the thread.
