understeer
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
2006 E55 and 2002 E320
I test drove both the 2005 BMW 325i Sedan (one with sport package, one without) and the 2005 Mercedes C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan prior to acquiring my C. Keep in mind, this is the E46 3 series.
Personally, in terms of comfort and ride quality, I actually like the BMW better, the C is actually a bit more firmer than the 3 Sport.
However, normally when you have stiffened springs, the ride quality is worsened, but in the case of the 3 series, the ride quality was perfect, sporty, reasonable body lean, and perfect comfort.
The Mercedes has maybe a bit more body lean, not as comfortable (too firm), and about the same everywhere else.
Now, going to understeering and oversteering. Personally, I've never experienced understeer in any of my vehicles. However, in my C, I have experienced oversteer several times, as I like to take the corners a bit faster than I should.
Regarding suspension set up. After reading the article provided in the link by drexappeal, I would try to play with the stiffness of the springs and the dampers.
VERY INTERSTING site and good thing that you revived this thread!
Personally, in terms of comfort and ride quality, I actually like the BMW better, the C is actually a bit more firmer than the 3 Sport.
However, normally when you have stiffened springs, the ride quality is worsened, but in the case of the 3 series, the ride quality was perfect, sporty, reasonable body lean, and perfect comfort.
The Mercedes has maybe a bit more body lean, not as comfortable (too firm), and about the same everywhere else.
Now, going to understeering and oversteering. Personally, I've never experienced understeer in any of my vehicles. However, in my C, I have experienced oversteer several times, as I like to take the corners a bit faster than I should.
Regarding suspension set up. After reading the article provided in the link by drexappeal, I would try to play with the stiffness of the springs and the dampers.
VERY INTERSTING site and good thing that you revived this thread!
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Los Angeles
C 230K Coupé
However, in my C, I have experienced oversteer several times, as I like to take the corners a bit faster than I should.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
2006 E55 and 2002 E320
I get oversteer all the time in the C. In fact, when I have people sitting in the back seat, it's even easier to get the oversteer, the back will completely break lose.
However, ironically, in the E, I never had the back actually fishtail and lose traction (except for once in a scary situation, I was in third gear, hit an oil patch while accelerating onto the freeway, span out the tires and almost lost control and went off the freeway or hit the other side of the onramp).
The oversteer is very controllable though. Never happens excessively (at least not with the speeds I'm driving at). If you turned out just the slightest bit, you'll regain all the traction.
I think that perhaps the coupe and the sedan differ in this aspect?
However, ironically, in the E, I never had the back actually fishtail and lose traction (except for once in a scary situation, I was in third gear, hit an oil patch while accelerating onto the freeway, span out the tires and almost lost control and went off the freeway or hit the other side of the onramp).
The oversteer is very controllable though. Never happens excessively (at least not with the speeds I'm driving at). If you turned out just the slightest bit, you'll regain all the traction.
I think that perhaps the coupe and the sedan differ in this aspect?
Super Moderator Alumni
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,684
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Originally Posted by patrick_y
I get oversteer all the time in the C. In fact, when I have people sitting in the back seat, it's even easier to get the oversteer, the back will completely break lose.
However, ironically, in the E, I never had the back actually fishtail and lose traction (except for once in a scary situation, I was in third gear, hit an oil patch while accelerating onto the freeway, span out the tires and almost lost control and went off the freeway or hit the other side of the onramp).
The oversteer is very controllable though. Never happens excessively (at least not with the speeds I'm driving at). If you turned out just the slightest bit, you'll regain all the traction.
I think that perhaps the coupe and the sedan differ in this aspect?
However, ironically, in the E, I never had the back actually fishtail and lose traction (except for once in a scary situation, I was in third gear, hit an oil patch while accelerating onto the freeway, span out the tires and almost lost control and went off the freeway or hit the other side of the onramp).
The oversteer is very controllable though. Never happens excessively (at least not with the speeds I'm driving at). If you turned out just the slightest bit, you'll regain all the traction.
I think that perhaps the coupe and the sedan differ in this aspect?
That may be why you experience oversteer when many of us experience understeer. Ever since I got my TEIN's and the Brabus swaybars, I don't experience it as prominently as before, but I still need to adjust my dampers to lessen the understeer more.
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Blimp
Personally i have my tire pressures set up to combat understeer. I have no problems whatsoever. I actually OVERSTEER more then anything, but that's always fun.
The real point is to be smooth around corners, take the right lines and you wont have to worry about anything.
The real point is to be smooth around corners, take the right lines and you wont have to worry about anything.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,090
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
2006 E55 and 2002 E320
Originally Posted by Sauceboy01
Personally i have my tire pressures set up to combat understeer. I have no problems whatsoever. I actually OVERSTEER more then anything, but that's always fun.
The real point is to be smooth around corners, take the right lines and you wont have to worry about anything.
The real point is to be smooth around corners, take the right lines and you wont have to worry about anything.
When you said "adaptive steering" does that mean my ratio changes? I think that the ratio is always the same. I've read about Mercedes' "Direct Control" which is featured on my automobile and all it says is that it's a more direct steering ratio.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Originally Posted by patrick_y
When you said "adaptive steering" does that mean my ratio changes? I think that the ratio is always the same. I've read about Mercedes' "Direct Control" which is featured on my automobile and all it says is that it's a more direct steering ratio.
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Super Moderator Alumni
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,684
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Originally Posted by patrick_y
Seriously Drexappeal, I wonder, do you work for Mercedes-Benz? You seem to know everything.
Luckily, the more I got to know 'bout the car, the more knowledgable I became (especially having been into tuning for the past 12-13 years, since before I turned 16). It also helped that there were A LOT of veteran members that were more than happy to share info with me. The 2005 got released a few months after my car, so I had to know all that I missed out on and all that I had that was better.
Either way, thanks for the compliment. I just try my best to really learn this car more and more as time goes along. And on the way, help out peeps as much as I can.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,090
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
2006 E55 and 2002 E320
Well, that's very nice of you to help me better understand my vehicle with your expertise.
I will say one thing, the 2005 model, missed out on the 2004.5 model. The 2004.5 model had 4 piston brakes (front) with different diameter pistons! Those were definitely Brembos, I know for sure.
The 2005, the dealer told me were also supplied by Brembo, however, the 2005 model only has two pistons on the brakes. Brembo rarely makes two piston brakes, even very rarely for the rear.
Lastly, they should hire you at your local dealership. Those sales agents make around a quarter million a year (for the better than average ones). And the one that I deal knows less about the car than I do.
I will say one thing, the 2005 model, missed out on the 2004.5 model. The 2004.5 model had 4 piston brakes (front) with different diameter pistons! Those were definitely Brembos, I know for sure.
The 2005, the dealer told me were also supplied by Brembo, however, the 2005 model only has two pistons on the brakes. Brembo rarely makes two piston brakes, even very rarely for the rear.
Lastly, they should hire you at your local dealership. Those sales agents make around a quarter million a year (for the better than average ones). And the one that I deal knows less about the car than I do.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2006
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2006 W203, 2001 Porsche Boxster
My 2 cents
1) I agree with the poster who mentioned upsizing your front tire width. Example, if you are using 225, move to 235 on your next tire change. This makes a big difference on the Boxster, another car that is design to understeer in order to keep inexperienced drivers from doing 360's.
2) You mentioned that the tires were new? New tires are not as good for traction on dry pavement as worn ones (the reason racers "shave" their tires). New tires should always be driven easily for the first 500 to 1000 miles as you wear off the mold release compound. When I put new tires on my cars, I always notice they feel "squisher" on the edge for the first 2 to 3K miles.
3) I have to disagree with the poster the W203 is the worst handling of the MBZs. While I have not driven many of the models, I find the 2006 C230 to be a very nicely balanced and predictable car with much less body lean than most sedans in its class. The ride is nosier and definitely on the rougher side for a sedan - - - but I like it that way and it is why I bought the car. Road feel and handling are much more important to me than options and comfort. Also, I could buy the car with a manual transmission, a rare option on sedans these days!
Disclaimer: The C230 is my wife’s car and not fully broken in yet so I have not had the opportunity to push it to its limitations - - - so my performance observations are not from direct experience with this car!
2) You mentioned that the tires were new? New tires are not as good for traction on dry pavement as worn ones (the reason racers "shave" their tires). New tires should always be driven easily for the first 500 to 1000 miles as you wear off the mold release compound. When I put new tires on my cars, I always notice they feel "squisher" on the edge for the first 2 to 3K miles.
3) I have to disagree with the poster the W203 is the worst handling of the MBZs. While I have not driven many of the models, I find the 2006 C230 to be a very nicely balanced and predictable car with much less body lean than most sedans in its class. The ride is nosier and definitely on the rougher side for a sedan - - - but I like it that way and it is why I bought the car. Road feel and handling are much more important to me than options and comfort. Also, I could buy the car with a manual transmission, a rare option on sedans these days!
Disclaimer: The C230 is my wife’s car and not fully broken in yet so I have not had the opportunity to push it to its limitations - - - so my performance observations are not from direct experience with this car!
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