LILBENZ230

Sometimes suppliers are different. My C230 was German built and is fine. But there were some differences between my ex's 1998 Japan-built Camry and his parent's 1998 Kentucky-built Camry. Same car, same color, same trim level, but they were different. The paint faded on the bumpers of the Japan built one, but not on the USA one. But the molding around the window switches on the doors warped in the USA one but not the Japan built one. No reliability differences, though a redlight runner took out the KY one at around 100,000 miles while the Japan one was put into storage indefinitely in 2010 with 200k miles and never any major issue.

Variations do happen.. for whatever reason.

Glyn M Ruck

Indeed Another thing to consider is that the Vietnamese are/were diligently assembling the cars from CKD kits whereas in the case of a plant like SA there is a large proportion of local content including the entire body which was pressed here.

Regarding QC. The good thing is that the plants around the world are a damn side closer in quality in 2011 than they were in 2001. The new Chinese plant is doing a wonderful job of the W204.

LightDragon

lilbenz get a life

LILBENZ230

Keep digging, troll.

On a related note.. I hope to tour the Tuscaloosa, AL Mercedes factory once the W205 line picks up assembly there in 2014-2015.. I live about 2 hours from it. I almost instinctively cringe at the idea of Alabama, though. Maybe it's wrong.. but I keep hearing that "We speak English in Alabama" commercial in my head. Literally the governor ran on the platform that you won't have to press 1 for English anymore. I've been to Alabama many times and that sounds more like dialect than real English... oh the irony.

Glyn M Ruck

Yeah - I would like to visit Tuscaloosa. It's a Benz plant I've never been to.

MW_ATL

Off topic but:

Glyn...When you do you need to plan a long trip as lots of people here will owe you beers, me included!

Mandatory on topic content, I can't complain about the quality on my German built, but I also have not had the outstanding results Glyn has. At 158,000 miles and still runs and looks great.

acr2001

Wow. What they speak in Alabama is certainly not English!!!

Glyn M Ruck

acr2001 can tell a few stories about a lemon.

tommy

It's an ok tour, though not nearly as good as the Sindelfingen tour - that was truly impressive. Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart is pretty cool, too.

Glyn M Ruck

+1 ^ The museum is stunning. We have some cars on loan from the museum from the Carl Benz, Gottlieb Daimler era in Cape Town at present. Unfortunately the original Carl Benz model is a replica.

Boom vang

Speaking of plants, the first couple of years the US plant that produced the ML was a disaster the first gen ML suffered from design problems and also poor quality assembly. "Quality was not job 1"


and I quote:
The ML 320 was Motor Trend magazine's Truck of the Year for 1998 and was voted the 1998 North American Truck of the Year at the North American International Auto Show, Detroit, in January 1998. Despite this, Mercedes-Benz received considerable criticism with respect to the substandard quality of the W163. A road test on the BBC programme Top Gear revealed that the presenter, Jeremy Clarkson, could put his fingers into the gap below the rear lights and above the rear bumper. Although quality improved over the years, especially after the facelift in 2001 for the 2002 model year, the ML still ranked second last out of the 142 cars in the Top Gear Motoring Survey 2004. As a result of these quality concerns, DaimlerChrysler spent US$600 million on improvements at the Alabama factory before launching the second generation ML in 2005.

anonymousmoose

As a German, I can confirm this. My uncle is apparently in the minority as being German on the Mercedes assembly line. Germans are usually pretty well educated and don't like the more 'menial' jobs. My father was managing production at a kitchen bench-top factory in the 90s and most of the floor staff were foreign.

I suspect the AMGs are top quality thought... I hear they the engine is built from start to finish by one staff member.

anonymousmoose

I should be the one upset... I'm German (just kiddin', I'm not upset) . Germany is not what it used to be. With the EU and workers allowed to work everywhere without a visa, most labour staff are not German at all in Germany. German's do have a good attention to detail in general, but mostly it ain't a German doing the work. I wont go into politics, but a lot of German are not EU fans. Lots of jobs went to foreigners as they work for less money.

anonymousmoose

Be interesting to see how that goes. In general, the Chinese like to cut corners I think (all my in-laws are Chinese living in the capital) and they don't really trust China made products from a quality perspective. All the Chinese I know don't want to buy made-in-China at all. If they can afford to buy European, they will. Chinese do like buying made-in-Germany. My father in-law kept his older VW because the older model was made in Germany the new one made in China. He and his son both wanted the older one because it was German and both didn't want the new one. The son ended up with the China made one.

anonymousmoose

I spent a lot of my Childhood in Schorndorf, very close to Stuttgart. Stuttgart is the region capital. I've only been to the older museum and I was amazed back then. I really want to visit the new one. I recall in the 90s being on the MB compound, it was larger than the city of Perth, Western Australia.

Gottlieb Wilhelm Daimler was born in Schorndorf

Now I'm getting homesick;

tommy

Fun fact - Schorndorf is a sister city of Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Daimler must be spinning in hs grave at that thought.

I've spent a good amount of time in Tubingen, which is a little bit south of Stuttgart. Nice college town, now famous for formerly having former Hitler Youth member, now Pope Benny the XVI (you say potato, I say patahto) on its faculty.

I think that most Germans would like a second whack at that whole joining the EU thingy.

Glyn M Ruck

The Chinese like buying from Europe

I'll tell you a secret about China having set up our entire business there. You need to be savvy & you get what you pay for. Ask them to make it cheap & they will do so. Tell them you want quality & are prepared to pay for it too. They will provide quality.

I have great respect for the Chinese & people that discount their capability do so at their peril. A Buick from Shanghai GM is a damn side better than a US built one. It's not difficult to inject a quality mindset in the Chinese. It is a natural part of the East Asian psyche. Don't screw them for a low price or they will find ways to cut corners in sometimes ingenious ways.

Think of the Ningbo area south of Shanghai with bearing plants as far as the eye can see. SKF, Timken, *** & all the Japanese bearing companies have plants there. In the US, Europe or Japan they might QC check every 100th bearing off of the production line. In China they check EVERY bearing off of the line. Their overheads are lower & they can afford to. They have long lines of noise machines running 24/7 checking each bearing & the fuss they make about filling bearings with the correct grease is admirable. They even test every batch of grease delivered to the plants. They are VERY proud of the end product. Chinese pride is huge.

Glyn M Ruck

The ML's from Tuscaloosa were a disaster. The complaint level was so high here that SA switched supply to the contract plant in Austria that were supplying diesel models anyway. Now we only get Austrian.

Glyn M Ruck

+1 regarding "Germans are usually pretty well educated and don't like the more 'menial' jobs." & understandably so.

The AMG's get more attention in some areas like Engines & drivetrain.

KalC240

The way I see it is these "sophisticated" cars are designed by top notch engineers with sophisticated computers with low tolerances. It's not 100% the fault of the menial labour that some of the end products are crap. They just assemble the parts together that are supposed to fit. When I buy somthing that I have to take home and assemble, usually the end product will depend on the quality of the parts and their design, not how I screw the parts together, and I do have "quality control" at home to make sure I align the parts correctly. But I never been to car factory so what do I know..

kluvsbenz

Seen the same replica at Morristown(NJ) MB dealer. I always give it second look when I go there.

Glyn M Ruck

Wonderful & vinyards too - Vinyards = wine

tommy

German vineyards = German wine

You have much better alternatives in SA.

anonymousmoose

My grandparents owned a small 3 story town-house , sold sadly (if I could I would have bought it). It overlooked the vineyards from top floor and was only a few hundred meters from an amazing forest (schwaebisch-fraenkischer wald).

Google map: Röhrachweg, Schorndorf, Deutschland

Come to think of it, its an amazingly balanced town. It had old-world charm with modern touch. Vineyards, a huge Forrest, major rail system, very close to a capital, autobahn at the door, farms nearby... its pretty well has the lot. The forest even had exercise routes with wood carved gymnastics style equipment one could use all free (here in OZ, it would be vandalised in no time). Great town to go push biking as nearby towns are close and you can ride through the country side, stop at the guest-houses, have a beer (back then for me maybe a coke) and ride on.

Lol, now I miss the place even more. Well I have my touch of Germany to keep me from being homesick

Boom vang

All Apple products are Made in China (assembled from parts sourced worldwide) and you can't ask for a better quality manufactured item, fit and finish is second to none. Also the failure rate is very very low. It all amounts to: skills of the labourers, strict quality control, co-operation of your suppliers, type of manufacturing equipment, sourcing of components and materials and finally the design and engineering of the product. Though there has been a problem with suicides of the workers at Foxconn manufacturing iphones, they are up to 11 so far.

I think that it really depends on where the originating company is and their standards. I am sure that a Michelin Made in China is just as good as one that is Made in France. I however would not buy tires that are made in China from a Chinese based company such as Ling Long or Qindao.