Question for Glyn: Old oil is better? wtf?
03-31-2012, 05:45 PM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Question for Glyn: Old oil is better? wtf?
Saw this over over on the other forum,
http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/
Not sure what this guy's qualifications are but I'll cut and paste his comments, tell me if any of this is anything more than snake oil.
His comments are in response to the maint. interval on a GL450.
__________________________________________________ _____
Originally Posted by njb8199
I replace the oil/filter every 5000 miles.
And you double the wear of the motor with MORE frequent oil changes...The original interval was supposed to be 20K, MBUSA pushed to keep it at 10K due to lost profits at the dealership level.
Stop doing this, you are not only wasting oil but causing more wear on the engine. You would be better off not changing the oil and going to a 20K interval, this would reduce you actual wear by over 5 fold vs 5K oil changes!
Wear in the first 3000 miles of an oil change are HIGHEST, at 10K the wear rates are less than 1/5th of what they were in that first 3000 miles.
Quote:
coolant flushes every 20000 miles.
WTF?
STOP RIGHT THERE! Coolant is NOT just some green juice that you pour into a system that lowers the boiling point!
MB coolants and other G-XX series are HOAT type coolants that do more than just stop the fluid from freezing!
The G-XX series coolants have additives that cause a caustic reaction inside the motor and STOP corrosion by CAUSING corrosion!
All you have done is INCREASED the corrosion in your system!
There is a VERY good reason why the coolant change interval is 15 years 150,000 miles! They do NOT want you to cause excessive corrosion in the system!
The coolants require about 10,000 miles of driving to stabilize. During this time the coolants react with the metals and form protective layers that stop any further corrosion from forming. Once these layers form the coolants pH is balanced out and no further corrosion occurs.
MB uses a SEALED cooling system, in other words there is no exchange of air or moisture that can throw off the balance of the systems chemical properties.
Blindly changing coolant takes a once stable system from a chemistry standpoint and turns it into chaos!
Also, anytime you replace the coolant, you need to replace the coolant tank. There is an additive package in them that maintains the proper amount of phospates to prevent system erosion.
When you do get to 15 years or 150,000 miles replace the coolant tank, water pump and serpentine belt along with any idler pulleys in the system.
Quote:
Transmission fluid at 40000
Transmission fluid depends, take a sample, most that I have seen are due at 20K (7-speed) and are lucky to get to 30K without needing a flush and filter change.
Don't guess, pull a sample and know for sure.
Your type of driving may not result in the same type of wear my driving does. My results are based on nearly 100% city so YMMV.
Quote:
I don't buy FSS crap. I know how I drive. I know what my car goes through in DC's stop and go traffic and I have it serviced to MY standards for MY peace of mind.
How many start cycles are on your car?
Whats your average speed per day?
Whats the number of cold starts since new?
Since the last oil change?
Whats is the oxidation level of your current oil change?
How many DPF regens have you seen, when did they occur and were they interupted?
How is that balance looking on the injectors?
How is the compression on Cylinder #1 doing?
You don't know jack about your car....That FSS is more in tune with what you are doing than you could ever hope to be.
FSS monitors more than mileage, it tracks EVERYTING related to that vehicle.
The only issue I have with it is the fixed interval BS, MBUSA should have left it as designed to function as intended!
You obviously don't know much about any car based on some of your recomendations above...Drive more worry less and FOLLOW THE MANUAL!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/
Not sure what this guy's qualifications are but I'll cut and paste his comments, tell me if any of this is anything more than snake oil.
His comments are in response to the maint. interval on a GL450.
__________________________________________________ _____
Originally Posted by njb8199
I replace the oil/filter every 5000 miles.
And you double the wear of the motor with MORE frequent oil changes...The original interval was supposed to be 20K, MBUSA pushed to keep it at 10K due to lost profits at the dealership level.
Stop doing this, you are not only wasting oil but causing more wear on the engine. You would be better off not changing the oil and going to a 20K interval, this would reduce you actual wear by over 5 fold vs 5K oil changes!
Wear in the first 3000 miles of an oil change are HIGHEST, at 10K the wear rates are less than 1/5th of what they were in that first 3000 miles.
Quote:
coolant flushes every 20000 miles.
WTF?
STOP RIGHT THERE! Coolant is NOT just some green juice that you pour into a system that lowers the boiling point!
MB coolants and other G-XX series are HOAT type coolants that do more than just stop the fluid from freezing!
The G-XX series coolants have additives that cause a caustic reaction inside the motor and STOP corrosion by CAUSING corrosion!
All you have done is INCREASED the corrosion in your system!
There is a VERY good reason why the coolant change interval is 15 years 150,000 miles! They do NOT want you to cause excessive corrosion in the system!
The coolants require about 10,000 miles of driving to stabilize. During this time the coolants react with the metals and form protective layers that stop any further corrosion from forming. Once these layers form the coolants pH is balanced out and no further corrosion occurs.
MB uses a SEALED cooling system, in other words there is no exchange of air or moisture that can throw off the balance of the systems chemical properties.
Blindly changing coolant takes a once stable system from a chemistry standpoint and turns it into chaos!
Also, anytime you replace the coolant, you need to replace the coolant tank. There is an additive package in them that maintains the proper amount of phospates to prevent system erosion.
When you do get to 15 years or 150,000 miles replace the coolant tank, water pump and serpentine belt along with any idler pulleys in the system.
Quote:
Transmission fluid at 40000
Transmission fluid depends, take a sample, most that I have seen are due at 20K (7-speed) and are lucky to get to 30K without needing a flush and filter change.
Don't guess, pull a sample and know for sure.
Your type of driving may not result in the same type of wear my driving does. My results are based on nearly 100% city so YMMV.
Quote:
I don't buy FSS crap. I know how I drive. I know what my car goes through in DC's stop and go traffic and I have it serviced to MY standards for MY peace of mind.
How many start cycles are on your car?
Whats your average speed per day?
Whats the number of cold starts since new?
Since the last oil change?
Whats is the oxidation level of your current oil change?
How many DPF regens have you seen, when did they occur and were they interupted?
How is that balance looking on the injectors?
How is the compression on Cylinder #1 doing?
You don't know jack about your car....That FSS is more in tune with what you are doing than you could ever hope to be.
FSS monitors more than mileage, it tracks EVERYTING related to that vehicle.
The only issue I have with it is the fixed interval BS, MBUSA should have left it as designed to function as intended!
You obviously don't know much about any car based on some of your recomendations above...Drive more worry less and FOLLOW THE MANUAL!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03-31-2012, 06:22 PM
#2
Super Moderator
Arghh! - Trust you to find that damn SAE paper. I have forgotten all the detail and please note it is only considering cam an tappet wear with god knows what oil & no doubt on a Ford engine.
This kind of result is highly base oil, VI Improver & mileage specific. It is possible with certain formulations to have slightly higher wear initially that settles with time. Mainly due to HTHS improving once initial shear has taken place of the base oil & VI Improver. There are other additives in good formulations to mitigate any such effects.
However - with Benz approved oils HTHS is watched like a hawk & the reason many oils fail Benz testing.
I have monitored thousands of fleets of vehicles in my oilco career & to suggest that this is the norm is horsesh-t. Used oil filters are also better than new one until the differential across the media is too high & the you are in trouble. OE drain intervals & filter changes are the answer unless you are running a full time monitoring program.
I can't nit pick the thing without a full copy of the paper & attachments.
This kind of result is highly base oil, VI Improver & mileage specific. It is possible with certain formulations to have slightly higher wear initially that settles with time. Mainly due to HTHS improving once initial shear has taken place of the base oil & VI Improver. There are other additives in good formulations to mitigate any such effects.
However - with Benz approved oils HTHS is watched like a hawk & the reason many oils fail Benz testing.
I have monitored thousands of fleets of vehicles in my oilco career & to suggest that this is the norm is horsesh-t. Used oil filters are also better than new one until the differential across the media is too high & the you are in trouble. OE drain intervals & filter changes are the answer unless you are running a full time monitoring program.
I can't nit pick the thing without a full copy of the paper & attachments.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 03-31-2012 at 06:24 PM.
