Davidta

Do you guys think we can 25 people together to take Ben up on his offer?

mctwin2kman

Not before Gains are found and of course what pulleys and how much diference in size.

Diz382Benz

I'm up for it, anyone else?

merc-it

would be interested but i need more info

jpb5151

The gains would have to be very noticeable for me to fork over $500. Since the AC gets temporarily cut off during heavy acceleration, how much do the other components drain the engine's power?

Mach430

Our underdrive pulleys do not touch the A/C; never have, never will. It would be sacreligious to reduce the A/C on a Mercedes/BMW.

There is no way to know what gains the motor will have until the first 25 sets are made and tested. It could be 15hp or it could be 1.5hp.

I will have to talk with Vadim, but for a little more, we can probably include a crank pulley to raise the boost. This would make the kit only applicable to models 2002 and newer. It may possible that the same pulleys can be used on both, and only the pre-2003 kits would have the option of using a new crank pulley. But this is all speculation at this point...


Thanks,
Ben

Buellwinkle

Heck, if you are making a 2002 crank pulley then just make the inner plane smaller and it will underdrive almost everything, make the outer plane larger and it will overdrive the s/c and alternator. The problem is can you sell enough 2002 pulleys to make it worthwhile since just about everyone that wants a pulley on a 2002 already has one so I don't think you will sell 25, even Kleemann pulled out of this market. Probably the biggest gain from underdrive pullies is the water pump and making that larger on the 2002 will cause belt rubbing.

So the market is the 2003+ 1.8L and 25+ is piece of cake if you can promise a decent gain.

Mach430

We're not promising any gains; their currently is not a product. Davidta came to me looking for us to produce pulleys and is now looking to the board to meet the necessary demand for us to begin any work on them.

mctwin2kman

Can't you do his car and then test for gains? There is a larger market for the 1.8 L engine since it is now in the sedan again and will be in the new SLK. There are now three models with that engine so 25 should not be hard to find especially if there is at least a 15HP gain from it. That would push us over the magic 200Hp mark.

czachari

More of it is freed so it can go to the wheels. When they rate the engines, they rate them off the car with no accesories attached.


CZ

breastroker

I started a thread at C Coupe http://www.csportcoupe.com/forums/sh...&threadid=2754

Only one Poly V belt 7 ft 11 in (2420 mm) so maximum belt length available will be a criteria.

Power increases are available from the following:

Use larger alternator pulley.
Air conditioning compressor

There is not a lot of room available to a water pump increase or a power steering pulley increase, and neither would be worth the money.

So we are stuck with a single pulley increase which should be under $100, for perhaps 5-7 HP. MB uses a 120 amp alternator, more than enough unless you are powering 1000 watts of stereo equipment.

mctwin2kman

I am totally happy with the power, but could always use some more at some point during ownership. But like most people I am leary of spending money for something that I do not know the advantages of owning. I would be up for this if there were some more solid figures. At least one before and after dyno to see the possible gains. I know the engine will not produce anymore power, but that some will be freed up, which will show on a dyno. Now there would be some gain if the pulleys include a %5 or %10 smaller SC pulley with them, since I would have the belt and other stuff off the vehicle it would only be smart to change that one out as well.

Mach430

Increasing the boost on the new 1.8L engines will do nothing for the car, as the supercharger is already at its point of maximum effiency. Going higher on it will cause the air to heat up inside the SC, and will cancel out any of the gains expected from increasing boost. Thus, we have no desire to increase the boost on the 1.8L.

Further, as I told Davidta, we do not see the necessary demand to justify stopping R&D on our current project cars in order to make these pulleys. Thus, we are not going to go into it expecting to lose money. We need 25 initial orders up front to justify our expenditures on the pulleys before any work is started.

Thanks,
Ben

czachari

I thought the M45 is spinning at 12000rpm or so on the 1.8L and that's probably at 6000RPM. The M45 can go to 14000RPM although it does lose some of its efficiency when it gets that high. I was thinking of getting more power lower in the RPM band. I wish I could get 12000RPM on it at 4000RPM instead of at 6000RPM. How often do I drive at 6000RPM? Almost never. I hit that spot occasionally for a few milliseconds. Most of the time I upshift before 4000RPM and when I merge or something I hit 5000. For me getting more boost in the low-mid range would be more important than losing some top-end efficiency.


What do you guys think?


Sincerely

CZ


p.s. If you make a smaller S/C pulley, I 'll put money down right now. I am not crazy about crank pulleys.

breastroker

If our M271 supercharger is turning anything over 14,000 rpm, it is making a LOT of heat. Others have tried and it hasn't been proven that any of the intercoolers are better than the stock MB one.

I would sure like to try one of the proven front air to air intercoolers that they use on the 350-400 HP Subaru WRXs.
Larger inlet and outlet piping and gentle bends are the way to go.
Remove another 50-80 degrees of heat and the M271 will come a live.

mctwin2kman

As far as I know, no one has tried an intercooler on a 2003 1.8L yet. There was no gain on the '02 but the '03 has more boost so it may help a lot in the loss department as well as allow for more air flow if the 2003 intercooler is restrictive. Buell has tested several on his pulleyed '02 and found no usefull gain from it. Less loss on hot days maybe, but he stated there was no real gain for the price. Now since the '03 has considerably more boost than the '02 who knows. Since his is pulleyed and boost is near the 1.8L levels maybe it would be a waist of money. I would like to know what the specs are for our SC in the '03's since everything is really all just specualation and guessing on it. I have seen no hard evidence of what our SC is capable of or what it is currently spinning at.

drho2004

hmmm.interesting. i see, from reading the post, it seems like the supercharger used in the m271 engines is the road block here.l since it seems to be working already at its maximum efficiency. what about putting in another more capable supercharger? anyone make one? not really sure if this has been covered b4

mig888

Brought back from the dead . Anyway, replacing the supercharger has been discussed in one of the threads.. search even further.. I think it was at least 3 pages at most.. and somewhat more current than what you've brought up. Search for username 'outland' + 'supercharger' you'll probably get it .

flip

aecasasus

More info....Might be interested!!!

HoustonC230

If the S/C is spinning at max efficiency when it's stock... then why does the Kleemann kit make additional power? I'm sure if it was the k-box alone, they wouldn't sell the pulley's as well.

Sauceboy01

^^

what he said.

HoustonC230

Oh yea, so does this mean that Evosport has stopped their R&D on the overdrive pulley/powerchip project for the 1.8L?

HoustonC230

Can't really be done on our cars, it's crank pulley or no pulley.

aecasasus

I can't believe that nobody makes pulleys for the 1.8L . I would love to get my hand on some to get some extra ponnies under my hood. Are Powerchips any good?

HoustonC230

Kleemann makes pullies, but they're expensive. Right now, that's your only option. Other shops have them in development, or will be starting soon.