Shifting.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: S. Cali
accord
Shifting.
how easy is misshifting for a manual tranny benz compared to other cars such as the rsx? What aftermarket tranny parts are there to mitigate it such as ssk and tranny mount enforcers?
I am asking because I am debating between getting a manual or auto and the only thing holding me back is the scary thought of misshifting.
I am asking because I am debating between getting a manual or auto and the only thing holding me back is the scary thought of misshifting.
Newbie
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
2002 MB C230 SC
The 6 speed transmission my '02 C230 SC is extremely notchy. The transmission seems to need to match up with engine speed for anything close to a smooth shift.
Got the GM response from the MB service center "They all do that."
If there's one thing I don't like about the car it's the transmission.
Have driven many cars with much smoother shifters. Including an early model MR2 with a much more challenging path to the transmission with the mid-engine chassis layout.
Got the GM response from the MB service center "They all do that."
If there's one thing I don't like about the car it's the transmission.
Have driven many cars with much smoother shifters. Including an early model MR2 with a much more challenging path to the transmission with the mid-engine chassis layout.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
séléction de vitesses
I would say that the 6 speed 'box, in non-Evolution form (no short shift kit) is a good gearbox, if not great; it shifts cleanly in all three examples of this I've driven.
This is not some wimpy-boy-pencil-arms gearbox whose shifter feels like a turn signal lever - its feel is more akin to the shifter of a Ferrari 328 GTB than that of a Honda Civic, for example.
As for notchiness, none of the three I've driven were that way. The synchros all worked fine and there is a very positive feeling that could be confused by ex-Honda drivers as notchiness as the gears engage.
Some others have reported problems with synchromesh.
If you enjoy driving, get the six speed. If you will be driving 90% in heavy city traffic, ride a bicycle or take public transit
This is not some wimpy-boy-pencil-arms gearbox whose shifter feels like a turn signal lever - its feel is more akin to the shifter of a Ferrari 328 GTB than that of a Honda Civic, for example.
As for notchiness, none of the three I've driven were that way. The synchros all worked fine and there is a very positive feeling that could be confused by ex-Honda drivers as notchiness as the gears engage.
Some others have reported problems with synchromesh.
If you enjoy driving, get the six speed. If you will be driving 90% in heavy city traffic, ride a bicycle or take public transit
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco Bay Area
MB C230K
I had trouble shifting 1st to 2nd but I find that if I rev to high RPMs in first and then shift, it's pretty smooth.
I guess the auto testers in Deutschland didn't bother testing the tranny outside of the Autobahn
--S
I guess the auto testers in Deutschland didn't bother testing the tranny outside of the Autobahn
--S
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,145
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
2010 C300 4matic
The only problems I ever had was when the car was new. 2nd gear was a little tough, and I grinded it twice because I came off the clutch before I was able to jam it into gear. But I haven't had any problems since.
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
C230
If I were you I wouldn't worry about misshifting. I drove a RSX Type-S before this 230k sedan and that thing is "supposed" to be easy to misshift when shifting from 5 --> 4 because the tendency is to pull towards you and therefore get it into 2nd gear instead of what you wanted, 4th.
The trick was to let the stick "center" itself before just moving the stick into 4th gear. (It got so natural for me that it didn't feel any slower). My point is, every car has a chance of misshifting but as long as you learn how to shift it and drive it you'll be fine. So the possibility of misshifting is one of the last things you should be looking at when shopping for a car.
editted: to correct a typo
The trick was to let the stick "center" itself before just moving the stick into 4th gear. (It got so natural for me that it didn't feel any slower). My point is, every car has a chance of misshifting but as long as you learn how to shift it and drive it you'll be fine. So the possibility of misshifting is one of the last things you should be looking at when shopping for a car.
editted: to correct a typo
Last edited by midas888; Aug 1, 2003 at 11:58 PM.
Trending Topics
Newbie
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
2002 MB C230 SC
OIC, since notchiness equals strength & durability, didn't realize Ford was putting such knarly 200 mph transmissions in their Escorts. Conversely, AAMCO must be very busy servicing all the smooth-shifting, insubstantial transmissions that are mated to the over abundance of 200+ hp cars these days.
Also didn't realize MB targeted the C230K at the burly, big-armed gear-jammer market segment by bundling their refined, world class suspension & safety features with a transmission that shifts like one of their commercial duty trucks.
I just want to shift efficiently without having to rationalize missed shifts with delusions of SuperCar grandeur.
Also didn't realize MB targeted the C230K at the burly, big-armed gear-jammer market segment by bundling their refined, world class suspension & safety features with a transmission that shifts like one of their commercial duty trucks.
I just want to shift efficiently without having to rationalize missed shifts with delusions of SuperCar grandeur.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,364
Likes: 13
From: New Jersey
SLS AMG | S65 AMG | GL550
Originally posted by ralph99
Also didn't realize MB targeted the C230K at the burly, big-armed gear-jammer market segment by bundling their refined, world class suspension & safety features with a transmission that shifts like one of their commercial duty trucks.
Also didn't realize MB targeted the C230K at the burly, big-armed gear-jammer market segment by bundling their refined, world class suspension & safety features with a transmission that shifts like one of their commercial duty trucks.
Mercedes wanted their shifter to be the way they wanted it to...not mushy, tight and notchy, for whatever reason.
If your that picky over a tranny then you should really test drive it first. Yes, you need to work the tranny a bit, but who cares? They know the people buying stick aren't buying it because they want full luxury...they want a sporty car...and thats what they provided, the sporty feel.
I love the MB stick for one main reason...when your upset there is nothing like going for a ride and nailing the shifting percisely...you hear it, you feel it, it's an amazing experience, you become one with the car...something an automatic user will never have.
Erik
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 1
From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by ralph99
Also didn't realize MB targeted the C230K at the burly, big-armed gear-jammer market segment by bundling their refined, world class suspension & safety features with a transmission that shifts like one of their commercial duty trucks.
I just want to shift efficiently without having to rationalize missed shifts with delusions of SuperCar grandeur.
Also didn't realize MB targeted the C230K at the burly, big-armed gear-jammer market segment by bundling their refined, world class suspension & safety features with a transmission that shifts like one of their commercial duty trucks.
I just want to shift efficiently without having to rationalize missed shifts with delusions of SuperCar grandeur.
I don't mind someone giving an opinion, but comparing it to a work truck is ludicris. Ive driven plenty of manuals in my days, and the MB 6speed is one of the nicer ones.
Newbie
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
2002 MB C230 SC
If you take a walkabout through the C230K forums on mbworld & csportcoupe.com you'll see a few owners have started threads discussing the 6-speed's notchiness. A few owners have had luck changing to a synthetic gear oil for smoother shifting.
If your C230K shifts smoothly with short throws, that's great. I'm assuming you referrring to everyday driving, not making alotta effort to match engine speeds.
Very nice shifts can be done if the engine speed is matched up. Since it's a rather close ratio gear box that pretty much means keeping alotta right-foot in during up-shifts . . . almost speed-shifting the transmission.
Although my concern about the transmission has been allayed somewhat. One poster commented that the transmission is in fact a rather beefy Getrag unit from another upscale sport sedan that is capable of handling much more torque than the MB 111 engine is putting out.
If that is true, that makes living with the transmission more tolerable, rather than viewing the transmission as a glaring compromise on an otherwise excellent car.
If your C230K shifts smoothly with short throws, that's great. I'm assuming you referrring to everyday driving, not making alotta effort to match engine speeds.
Very nice shifts can be done if the engine speed is matched up. Since it's a rather close ratio gear box that pretty much means keeping alotta right-foot in during up-shifts . . . almost speed-shifting the transmission.
Although my concern about the transmission has been allayed somewhat. One poster commented that the transmission is in fact a rather beefy Getrag unit from another upscale sport sedan that is capable of handling much more torque than the MB 111 engine is putting out.
If that is true, that makes living with the transmission more tolerable, rather than viewing the transmission as a glaring compromise on an otherwise excellent car.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
It has been stated the unit is good for upwards of 400 hp. I've started to auto-cross my car, and I've got to say that the notchiness of it is useful. You hear it, you feel it. You know if you missed and you need to double clutch, before it grinds.
I had a crunching issue on the 1-2 shift when it was cold. But it seems that the box takes the abuse and asks for more. Shifting day-to-day on the street, I do find the box/flywheel/clutch a bit heavier and more awkward. I love this gearbox compared to others I've driven though, include BMWs.
I had a crunching issue on the 1-2 shift when it was cold. But it seems that the box takes the abuse and asks for more. Shifting day-to-day on the street, I do find the box/flywheel/clutch a bit heavier and more awkward. I love this gearbox compared to others I've driven though, include BMWs.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 0
From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
A standard shift tranny should be notchy and not sloppy. You get mis-shifts when it is sloppy, because you have no idea what gear you are going into. Drive a Ferrari or Lamborgini or even a Porsche standard shist and they are not loose either. I personally like a notchy tranny, I know what gear I am putting it in as well. There is no question of which gear I am hitting as they are all lined up nicely. If you want a sloppy tranny buy a Ford. This is a Getrag Tranny and last I checked they still make one of, if not the best tranny out there. Mine goes nicely into first gear, but not until you are going slow enough to put it in. Under 10MPH normally, 20 if I put it in second first and then into 1st. From what I can see only Americans like a sloppy lazy tranny, the rest of the world does not seem to complain to much. And I am American and have been in the auto industry my whole life. I have driven many a standard shift car and this one seems to shift the best. I have yet to miss a shift in this car.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
Originally posted by mctwin2kman
A standard shift tranny should be notchy and not sloppy. You get mis-shifts when it is sloppy...
...I have driven many a standard shift car and this one seems to shift the best. I have yet to miss a shift in this car.
A standard shift tranny should be notchy and not sloppy. You get mis-shifts when it is sloppy...
...I have driven many a standard shift car and this one seems to shift the best. I have yet to miss a shift in this car.
jo17- I started to get the notchy 1st gear after 25K miles. It has gone away at 32K. Strange stuff.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 0
From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
I must say now that I think of it I have missed a shift once. I hate the sound of grinding. I let the clutch out to quick one day, but that was my fault not the tranny. My left foot was a little quicker than my right hand was.....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 1
From: Abingdon, MD
My assumption is this regarding what the majority of the complains are;
There is the notch feeling, then a small space where you can still grind, then the shifter and gear seats and you are good to go.
I am assuming that most people with the issue, have experience that "negative space" where you can still grind, and that is frustrating.
That is not the tranny's fault at all. It works, as is, mechanically, and WE are obligated to LEARN how to shift our own cars.
There is the notch feeling, then a small space where you can still grind, then the shifter and gear seats and you are good to go.
I am assuming that most people with the issue, have experience that "negative space" where you can still grind, and that is frustrating.
That is not the tranny's fault at all. It works, as is, mechanically, and WE are obligated to LEARN how to shift our own cars.
