Vibration in steering wheel and very harsh ride, but everything is new????
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
Vibration in steering wheel and very harsh ride, but everything is new????
I am getting vibration through the steering wheel above 70mph and the ride is harsh in general. I can feel every bump in the road and its harsh on the smoothest road surface i can find. I did the following:
I have no play anywhere in the suspension and everything is tight. I took it to a tracking shop and they said they could only do the toe and that the caster and camber were in the acceptable limits. They also said they cant touch the back, but it was a also in acceptable limits.
I don't have the fluted bolts in the front control arms so apparently the camber and caster cant be changed, is this true? and if not would this be a case of vibration?
All the control arm bushings are new but they are not MB branded could this be a cause of vibration.
I do have pulsing coming through the brakes when i brake reasonably hard at highway speeds, so i imagine my rotors aren't totally true but could this cause the vibration when im go?
I am at a loss the only thing i have left is going back to the tire shop and getting new tires and trying that out.
My Mercedes is far from smooth considering what i have swapped out, even at low speeds i can feel every tiny little bump in the road. I'm running 225/50/r16 tires on the stock 16" rims.
- New Bilstein touring shocks and struts front and back
- New upper and lower control arms, (Not MB branded)
- New tires
- Tire balancing (twice to make sure) and tracking
I have no play anywhere in the suspension and everything is tight. I took it to a tracking shop and they said they could only do the toe and that the caster and camber were in the acceptable limits. They also said they cant touch the back, but it was a also in acceptable limits.
I don't have the fluted bolts in the front control arms so apparently the camber and caster cant be changed, is this true? and if not would this be a case of vibration?
All the control arm bushings are new but they are not MB branded could this be a cause of vibration.
I do have pulsing coming through the brakes when i brake reasonably hard at highway speeds, so i imagine my rotors aren't totally true but could this cause the vibration when im go?
I am at a loss the only thing i have left is going back to the tire shop and getting new tires and trying that out.
My Mercedes is far from smooth considering what i have swapped out, even at low speeds i can feel every tiny little bump in the road. I'm running 225/50/r16 tires on the stock 16" rims.
Last edited by jarvace; Oct 6, 2013 at 11:43 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,067
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From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
Are the tires wearing evenly? If so, then unless they're very cheap tires, I can't see how that would be a problem.
Only things I can think of is bad installation of the struts, bad tie rod ends, or wheel bearings gone bad.
If that's not it, no reason to waste good money on something that's probably not the problem - spend the money to have an indy do a real diagnostic test and have them find the real problem. Or keep speeds below 70 mph, of course.
Only things I can think of is bad installation of the struts, bad tie rod ends, or wheel bearings gone bad.
If that's not it, no reason to waste good money on something that's probably not the problem - spend the money to have an indy do a real diagnostic test and have them find the real problem. Or keep speeds below 70 mph, of course.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
Check your parking brake, there are a couple of threads on it, a seized lever under the rear seat will cause a very unique vibration at highway speeds, need to free it up and have it working in its usual range.
also check if there is no play in your bearings, extreme warped rotors will cause a lot of vibration not just on braking
Check the air pressure in your tires, too much and you will get a very harsh ride should be 28 and 32psi
also check if there is no play in your bearings, extreme warped rotors will cause a lot of vibration not just on braking
Check the air pressure in your tires, too much and you will get a very harsh ride should be 28 and 32psi
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 938
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From: Montreal, Canada
2005 C240 2011 R350
what tires do you have? This can make a big difference in ride quality, harshness, noise etc.
What brand suspension parts? I did buy some aftermarket parts but did not notice any difference.
What brand suspension parts? I did buy some aftermarket parts but did not notice any difference.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
Thanks for the responses.
The Tires i have are General Exclaim UHP size 225/50r16 on stock 16" rims.
I went back to Canadian tire who sold me the tire twice and they said they had trouble balancing them, eventually they did get them balanced yesterday and the steering wheel is no longer vibrating at high speed but the ride is still really harsh and i can feel every bump and imperfection.
Is this because i went from a 205 width tire to 225? Or are the tires just crap?
I thinking about ordering a set of 205/55/r16 Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires to replace the general tires.
I know the Bilstein touring class shocks/struts are 15% stiffer but surely it shouldn't be that harsh... Anyone have experience with a wider tire and Bilsteins, or one or the other?
The Tires i have are General Exclaim UHP size 225/50r16 on stock 16" rims.
I went back to Canadian tire who sold me the tire twice and they said they had trouble balancing them, eventually they did get them balanced yesterday and the steering wheel is no longer vibrating at high speed but the ride is still really harsh and i can feel every bump and imperfection.
Is this because i went from a 205 width tire to 225? Or are the tires just crap?
I thinking about ordering a set of 205/55/r16 Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires to replace the general tires.
I know the Bilstein touring class shocks/struts are 15% stiffer but surely it shouldn't be that harsh... Anyone have experience with a wider tire and Bilsteins, or one or the other?
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 938
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From: Montreal, Canada
2005 C240 2011 R350
A quick search of tire reviews brings up some soft sidewalls, fast tread wear some balancing problems and only one noise issue.
The fact that you have a wider tire on original rims would also soften the ride but may not affect noise. Perhaps its just a noisy tire on your car.
The fact that you have a wider tire on original rims would also soften the ride but may not affect noise. Perhaps its just a noisy tire on your car.
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
Its nothing to do with the noise which is acceptable, the problem is the harshness and that i can feel imperfections on road which looks as smooth as glass.
I assume going back to 205/55r16 would give me a slightly larger tire wall and better comfort or is that not the case, also going back to a premium branded tire might help??
I got these General tires at $98 each, i have to pay an additional $240 on top to get the Conti's installed.
I assume going back to 205/55r16 would give me a slightly larger tire wall and better comfort or is that not the case, also going back to a premium branded tire might help??
I got these General tires at $98 each, i have to pay an additional $240 on top to get the Conti's installed.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
the height of the sidewalls are identical for either of the sizes standing at 4.4", only the tread width is different. if you went to a 225/45 17 then the sidewall becomes 4" though the overall diameter is about the same
Here is a good tool to calculate equivalent tire sizes
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Here is a good tool to calculate equivalent tire sizes
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
I understand that the wheels remain the same diameter, but surely a 50 compared to a 55 sized tire wall means less give and more stiffness than the other?
Additionally a narrow tire i can only imagine with less contact to the road would be smoother?
Additionally a narrow tire i can only imagine with less contact to the road would be smoother?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,714
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I found theW204 ride was much harsher & unacceptable to me with sports tyres ie 40's
My Michelin Primacy 205/55/16s are a much better balance of ride & handling for my rough road conditions.
A easy way to check if it is tyre harshness may be to lower their pressure to say 24psi temporarily & test drive.
My Michelin Primacy 205/55/16s are a much better balance of ride & handling for my rough road conditions.
A easy way to check if it is tyre harshness may be to lower their pressure to say 24psi temporarily & test drive.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 968
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
I've had the General Exclaim UHP in the past ... used them for 2+ changes ... and when new I thought they were extremely smooth and quiet. So I wouldn't expect it to be the tires if they are new. (Fyi I now have the Extreme DWs ... love them, but they also get noisy when half worn down.)
I also installed Bilstein TCs last year ... yes they are a lot stiffer than stock (and I started with the sport suspension), especially when you first put them on. I wouldn't be surprised if you think feel the road a lot more, but this should not cause the vibration.
So my recommendation is to keep your shocks and tires, and look to the other suggestion for the cause of your problems. Fyi I have Zimmerman drilled/coated rotors on my car ... no warping issues whatsoever.
I also installed Bilstein TCs last year ... yes they are a lot stiffer than stock (and I started with the sport suspension), especially when you first put them on. I wouldn't be surprised if you think feel the road a lot more, but this should not cause the vibration.
So my recommendation is to keep your shocks and tires, and look to the other suggestion for the cause of your problems. Fyi I have Zimmerman drilled/coated rotors on my car ... no warping issues whatsoever.
Last edited by jkowtko; Oct 9, 2013 at 10:02 AM.
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 247
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From: CT
2013 Mercedes benz ML350 4Matic
it's sounds like you are experiencing the noise even at low speeds. I have the same problem I think. I'm hearing a thud, thud, thud as I am driving. Not a bearing noise, drive axle already replaced, noise is still there. I'm afraid after replacing 4 tires on my C240 4Matic the noise will still be there.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
Thanks again for the responses, i have narrowed the harshness i'm experiencing down to the tires. I have lowered the psi and it indeed helped with the harshness.
@ JKOWTO
In you opinion and experience what was the better tire between the General Exclaim and the Continental extremecontact DWS. I can get the the conti's installed for an additional $180 all in.
I want to go for the tire with the most amount of Comfort and quietness, will i achieve this with the continental tire or will it be a waste of money?
I have to pull the trigger on this in the next day or so otherwise i'm stuck with the Exclaim's...
@ JKOWTO
In you opinion and experience what was the better tire between the General Exclaim and the Continental extremecontact DWS. I can get the the conti's installed for an additional $180 all in.
I want to go for the tire with the most amount of Comfort and quietness, will i achieve this with the continental tire or will it be a waste of money?
I have to pull the trigger on this in the next day or so otherwise i'm stuck with the Exclaim's...
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
it's sounds like you are experiencing the noise even at low speeds. I have the same problem I think. I'm hearing a thud, thud, thud as I am driving. Not a bearing noise, drive axle already replaced, noise is still there. I'm afraid after replacing 4 tires on my C240 4Matic the noise will still be there.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 968
Likes: 62
From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
In you opinion and experience what was the better tire between the General Exclaim and the Continental extremecontact DWS. I can get the the conti's installed for an additional $180 all in.
I want to go for the tire with the most amount of Comfort and quietness, will i achieve this with the continental tire or will it be a waste of money?
I want to go for the tire with the most amount of Comfort and quietness, will i achieve this with the continental tire or will it be a waste of money?
Again I was happy with the Generals during the first half of their life, and after that they started getting noisy the point where you think everything in your suspension is falling apart. Unfortunately, I have to say I'm experiencing the sam with the DW Extremes ... I just changed the rears a few months ago, worn down 80% in 18 months. The fronts are almost two years old now and only halfway through their treads, but making noise that sounds like the bearings are shot. So these tires don't last very long.
You're always going to trade off handling vs comfort. you have non-sport springs and installed stiffer shocks ... not sure how that's going to alter the dynamics of the suspension.
Unless you can get the tire shop to guarantee that DWS are a quieter, softer tire than DW and General, then your next search for both quality and comfort might be the ContiSportContact (which I think are also more expensive).
However, as I mentioned before, I always thought the Generals' were a comfortable tire, so if you are thinking they feel harsh, maybe it's the Bilsteins and not the tires ...
(and if you want to take a road trip down to SF I'll be happy to meet you for a quick road test
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
I think i'm going to pull the trigger and get the Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires installed tomorrow afternoon.
If i don't i will forever be wondering what the ride would be like with premium continental tires rather than budget orientated General Tires.
I'm also going to go back to the original size of 205/55r16 rather than 225/50r16.
Hopefully the harshness and thunking will be eliminated... i want my premium German road comfort dammit!!!!
If i don't i will forever be wondering what the ride would be like with premium continental tires rather than budget orientated General Tires.
I'm also going to go back to the original size of 205/55r16 rather than 225/50r16.
Hopefully the harshness and thunking will be eliminated... i want my premium German road comfort dammit!!!!
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 247
Likes: 10
From: CT
2013 Mercedes benz ML350 4Matic
I agree on the Continentals... it's worth the purchase... swear to god, checked everything, must be the tires making tis weird noise..... I will follow up when I purchase tires! 
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,714
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I think i'm going to pull the trigger and get the Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires installed tomorrow afternoon.
If i don't i will forever be wondering what the ride would be like with premium continental tires rather than budget orientated General Tires.
I'm also going to go back to the original size of 205/55r16 rather than 225/50r16.
Hopefully the harshness and thunking will be eliminated... i want my premium German road comfort dammit!!!!
If i don't i will forever be wondering what the ride would be like with premium continental tires rather than budget orientated General Tires.
I'm also going to go back to the original size of 205/55r16 rather than 225/50r16.
Hopefully the harshness and thunking will be eliminated... i want my premium German road comfort dammit!!!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,657
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From: Austin, TX
2005 C230K(sold), Mk7 Jetta
DW (not S) IMO are softer than DWS. I wore rears down to zero in 16k miles of mostly granny-style driving. The fronts have 27k on them, still about 6/32 left O_O
Now have DWS on the rears, 11k miles, 6/32 left... So I guess they are harder.
DW and DWS are non-directional, you can rotate them side-to side
Now have DWS on the rears, 11k miles, 6/32 left... So I guess they are harder.
DW and DWS are non-directional, you can rotate them side-to side
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,105
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
DW (not S) IMO are softer than DWS. I wore rears down to zero in 16k miles of mostly granny-style driving. The fronts have 27k on them, still about 6/32 left O_O
Now have DWS on the rears, 11k miles, 6/32 left... So I guess they are harder.
DW and DWS are non-directional, you can rotate them side-to side
Now have DWS on the rears, 11k miles, 6/32 left... So I guess they are harder.
DW and DWS are non-directional, you can rotate them side-to side
BTW General is a division of Continental so many of the technologies are shared
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 968
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
My bad ... my DWs are bi-directional, I just rotated the fronts today, and the tire noise is pretty much gone They have about 15k on the fronts and 60% of the tread left. The rears wore twice as fast as the fronts.
They have about 15k on the fronts and 60% of the tread left. The rears wore twice as fast as the fronts.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 26
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From: Vancouver
2002 Mercedes C320 Wagon
The new tires made a big difference, they take up alot of the harshness. However it is still there.
But today i decided to put the car up on scissor ramps and get to the bottom of it. The problem was the camber control arms, the bushings were twisted. As soon as i took the slack off of the bolt the bushing twisted back to a neutral position.
When i installed the control arms i put jacks under the control arms to try and achieve a neutral suspension position before torquing the bolt down. This was the only way i could do it as i had no access to proper ramps...
But now my toe is all buggered up and have to pay for an alignment. The car is however smooth going over bumps again now and the ride isn't harsh...
But today i decided to put the car up on scissor ramps and get to the bottom of it. The problem was the camber control arms, the bushings were twisted. As soon as i took the slack off of the bolt the bushing twisted back to a neutral position.
When i installed the control arms i put jacks under the control arms to try and achieve a neutral suspension position before torquing the bolt down. This was the only way i could do it as i had no access to proper ramps...
But now my toe is all buggered up and have to pay for an alignment. The car is however smooth going over bumps again now and the ride isn't harsh...
