coppermine

Is it true that your stock shocks will go "bad" if you decide on lowering your car by using aftermarket springs only? Is this because aftermarket springs are not correctly matched with the stock shocks? Can anyone confrim or deny this? Thanks

ps: what would be a smoother ride without any rubbing/scrapping issues: cuptkit or coilovers?

FIXEDupW209

i believe you are correct i could be wrong. change your system get coilovers and shocks. a good brand is h&R. should do the trick. if you want comfort i hear brabus is really smooth but nice when wanting to drive more aggresively also its $$$

Guest0001

I don't think they will go bad. The lifespan of the shocks would just be much shorter. I got Brabus Springs for my C320 and they are awesome. It improves the handling soooooo much yet retains that comfort. I didnt get new shocks as I thought It wouldnt be necessary.

I was close to getting Eibach but after doing some research and asking around I learned its very very comfortable stock feel but performance is not signifcantly improved.

Cupkit is nice but I heard H&R it a bit stiffer than eibach or brabus. But it has a really nice drop and comes with a matching spring shock combo which is a plus.

Dunno anything on coilovers as I never done research on it.

So depends what you value, how sensitive you are, and how much you want to spend.

Mike T.

It is true in some cars.

For example, if you lower a Renault 5 (Le Car), especially with the stock springs (easy, they're torsion bars), the suspension bottoms out hard. When the suspension does that, the shock valve sometimes gets slammed into the bottom of the shock body, damaging it. This happened all the time with mickey mouse R-5 guys who wanted a quick lowering job. Every R-5 I saw lowered improperly had leaky De Carbon shocks (those were the standard ones, otherwise, a GREAT shock)

In other cars whether this will happen depends upon whether the car is more likely to have the suspension bottom out once the car is lowered. If so, then the same could happen.

Matching the shocks to new springs sometimes means more than just tuning the suspension properly. It can also mean making sure the new shock has enough travel in it - at the "low end" - to accommodate the increased likelihood of bottoming, without damage.

CarlssonCRS

Thats not true... ive been driving on H&R springs that are cut and so far my schocks are fine. the car has 32k+ miles and is a lil over 2 years old.

Smoltz

Installing lowering springs without replacing the shocks will cause them to wear out prematurely, it will also cause a much harsher ride and can also cause the shock mounts to fail.

However despite all these problems many people install just lowering springs instead of springs & shocks beccause 1) it costs less money and 2) they are just looking for the lowered look and are not concerned about drivabilit/reliability.

Thanks,
Adam

esputmono

my stock shock dead after 3-4 months..

CarlssonCRS

hahaha thats cuz you lowered it sooo much!

LorinserCClass

lol clown that is what happens when you only leave half a coil!!! You crazy guy

mmgrad

i back up Brabus 1000% percent... and yes, changing springs without changing to sport shocks can & will shorten the life of the shocks...

it can die in 6 months or a year... sometimes, it won't be as apparent, but, you will definitely notice a much harsher ride since the shocks are having a hard time dealing with the extra compression

E55AMG99

While I have a ton of respect for you guys, none of this makes sense except for the shock being destroyed by bottoming. As shocks fail, they get softer, not harsher because they cannot dampen the sping oscilations. The car will get bouncy and will ride like a boat on a rough sea.

QUOTE from https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=55126

The only shock that might have a problem is a gas charged unit that would be operating under greater pressure (increased compression of the pre-charged gas). Typical shock absorbers are circulatory pistons pushing oil through a metering valve. The oil is circulated back and forth from above and below the piston through the restriciton of the valve. Because the oil can reach equal pressure on both sides, the piston will come to rest anywhere along the full stock of the shock. While some have reactionary valves that close tighter if piston acceleration exceeds a certain threshold, oil pressure will still equalize. The amount of dampening is the same no matter where the piston is in the chamber, unless there is some kind of progressive metering based on piston position. Isn't this is the spring's job to increase compression and rebound ability as travel increases?"

Mach430

Most stock shocks are not designed to ride at the lower height or stiffer spring rate. The result is an unmatched set of springs and dampeners that will over time lead to premature wear, and eventually failing, of your shocks.

As the shocks begin to fail, they will get "softer," as they are dampening less and less. This can be equated to harshness, but is not the harshness that one would associate with a stiff suspension. Instead, it is an overly sprung suspension with little to no dampening. The result is a bounce (from the spring), followed by several oscillations and a floaty feeling. Picture some beater car driving down the freeway rocking left to right and up and down. That is what blown shocks do.

How fast your shocks will wear out depends on the driving conditions. While some may get 15,000 miles out of their shocks (with stiffer/lower springs), I could probably wear through them in under 2500. At the end of the day, be prepared to change your shocks; either at the same time as the springs or usually within 6-12 months afterwards.

Thanks,

Ben

E55AMG99

Thanks Ben. I understand the resulting ride of a failed set of shocks. I drove an Olds Vista Cruiser wagon with over 180,000 on the original shocks! What a boat!

When I worked with various race cars/teams, we changed spring heights and rates constantly. We also changed shock valving but as long as the shock didn't bottom out, I never saw a correlation between height and shock wear/failure. I did see shocks wear out faster on rough tracks where we used softer springs. Heat was the biggest problem on the seals. One would think that the softer the spring, the longer the stroke on the shock and therefore the more heat generated. Basically, the spring is doing less work and the shock is doing more. No?

Mach430

I would agree with you in regards to compression of the stock dampener, but as it works in both upward and downward movements, I think the opposite is also true. Yes, a soft spring may allow the shock to bottom out, but a stiff spring may cause a shock to top out. What do you think?

E55AMG99

Yes, "bottoming" applies in both directions. Not sure I follow the too stiff line though. Shocks that are too stiff can break off their mounts, though. My Jeep does that all the time.

I was looking at the lowered suspension/shock problem as a linear thing. My assumption (no one has proven otherwise) is that the shock has the same dampening across any measured distance. If the a bump compresses the suspension 2 inches, the shock will perform the same regardless weather it is in the bottom or the top or the middle of its stroke. I know manufacturers put progressive rate springs in cars, but do they put in progressive rate shocks too? I think that is the answer I'm looking for.

Maybe (this is a stretch) when the resevoirs are not equal sized as would happen if the piston is repositioned lower with a lowered suspension, the oil in the smaller side gets hotter faster. Heat is what causes the oil to boil and eventually destroys the seals and the shock fails.

Does this make sense to anyone?

C230 Sport Coup

I think if you're the kind of person who actually notices things like, or say, that the stock springs suck, then you're also likely to notice that the shocks are 'failiing'.
Now, if you asked the dealer, they'd say the shocks are fine, but your sensitive butt know, I know mine does.

I wouldn't say mine are shot, but I know when I get around to getting new ones, I'll be noticing a definate improvement.

This begs the question though, of do I want to keep the Vogtland springs or go for something a little more radical, like coilovers or a cup kit?

Especially when Koni's cost like 600-700 a set.
If you wanna drive REALLY fast, coilovers. If you drive everyday, I still like my vogtlands. A big improvement from stock, but still rides pretty nice. But sometimes when I'm going about 100mphd hit a bump on an outside bank, well, I know that coilovers would be better. But how often do I do that?
Not often. A 3500 lb car is still a 3500 lb car, and with me and a passenger in it, it's closer to 2 tons.

I'm puttin' my money into the stoppin' side of things for now...
AMG brakes on order.

coppermine

c230 sport and others, for someone who wants the lowered look, and doesnt want too harsh of a ride, what would you recommend--coilovers, cup kits, konis, and etc? I've excluded springs from the list for the reasons mentioned in this thread. Thanks in advance.

ps: which would be the least likey to bottom out if i have 5 adults in the car? thx