C230 or 24V GTI? Help me decide.
03-13-2002, 02:48 PM
#29
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C230K
veedub,
keep in mind that the c7 6 speed is a short shift. did you drive that? once it's broken in, it's really nice. i get great power through out the rev range too. When you test drove, how fast did you go? the car is so stable at high speeds. i find myself flying when ever i drive. you just don't notice the speed. 100 feels like 70 just with everyone else moving in slow motion around you.
all i can say is that i'm glad i got the c coupe. it's practicle, has great power, incredible saftey features, and a three point star. The pana roof is great. i haven't met a person yet who hasn't drooled over it.
keep in mind that the c7 6 speed is a short shift. did you drive that? once it's broken in, it's really nice. i get great power through out the rev range too. When you test drove, how fast did you go? the car is so stable at high speeds. i find myself flying when ever i drive. you just don't notice the speed. 100 feels like 70 just with everyone else moving in slow motion around you.
all i can say is that i'm glad i got the c coupe. it's practicle, has great power, incredible saftey features, and a three point star. The pana roof is great. i haven't met a person yet who hasn't drooled over it.
03-13-2002, 06:20 PM
#30
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Veedub,
I owned a '01 GTi 1.8T. It was loaded with the black leather, heated seats, Monsoon sound system, CD changer and Sport Package and it was totalled in a head on collision just three weeks after I bought it. It was more tossable than my '02 C230 Coupe. it was a blast to drive. It had more power than my '00 Jetta VR6 and I can tell you that it will be a simple choice. If you want a fun sporty car, get the GTi. VW will reduce it's price leaving the sunroof an option and the Climatronic on the VR6 also an option. Now the Mercedes is more top-notch, quieter ride, very stable at high speeds and lot's of features that VW will not offer in their GTi such as dual a/c, vast onboard computer info., build quality, safety, and engineering. Now as a long time VW/Audi enthusiast I can tell you that VW is the best car out there for the money offering hi luxury feel quality and great craftsmanship. Remember that the 24 Valve VR6 will have 204 hp if not mistaken or 201 and the 1.8T has 180 and the C230 has 192. However the GTi is a school boys car and the Mercedes is a College graduate car when comparing. The Mercedes is very refined and ride quality is great as well as performance. I can see where you would compare the both but the Mercedes nicely equipped will hit $30K whereas the GTi will hit about $23K, dont fall for dealers asking for more. However resale on a GTi is very bad regardless of what VW says. I just traded my '01 Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T with only 9,000 miles on my '02 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro 6 speed and they gave me $15,000 for it when I paid $22K and that was only 6 months ago. It pretty much depends what you are going to use the car for, if you want elegance and refinement go with the Mercedes, for Sporty go with GTi, however, get ready for the wonderful service that you will receive from VW, they are horrible even when calling their customer service and always backed up 1 month for service. So check out VW's service and parts, they never had parts in stock and never fix the problems that are wrong with the car- they always classify as "operating to Mfr.Specs". Just my 2 cents.
Also, the Benz has a bigger rarity factor and is far nicer in design and appearance than the GTi and also it's a Benz-enough said.
I owned a '01 GTi 1.8T. It was loaded with the black leather, heated seats, Monsoon sound system, CD changer and Sport Package and it was totalled in a head on collision just three weeks after I bought it. It was more tossable than my '02 C230 Coupe. it was a blast to drive. It had more power than my '00 Jetta VR6 and I can tell you that it will be a simple choice. If you want a fun sporty car, get the GTi. VW will reduce it's price leaving the sunroof an option and the Climatronic on the VR6 also an option. Now the Mercedes is more top-notch, quieter ride, very stable at high speeds and lot's of features that VW will not offer in their GTi such as dual a/c, vast onboard computer info., build quality, safety, and engineering. Now as a long time VW/Audi enthusiast I can tell you that VW is the best car out there for the money offering hi luxury feel quality and great craftsmanship. Remember that the 24 Valve VR6 will have 204 hp if not mistaken or 201 and the 1.8T has 180 and the C230 has 192. However the GTi is a school boys car and the Mercedes is a College graduate car when comparing. The Mercedes is very refined and ride quality is great as well as performance. I can see where you would compare the both but the Mercedes nicely equipped will hit $30K whereas the GTi will hit about $23K, dont fall for dealers asking for more. However resale on a GTi is very bad regardless of what VW says. I just traded my '01 Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T with only 9,000 miles on my '02 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro 6 speed and they gave me $15,000 for it when I paid $22K and that was only 6 months ago. It pretty much depends what you are going to use the car for, if you want elegance and refinement go with the Mercedes, for Sporty go with GTi, however, get ready for the wonderful service that you will receive from VW, they are horrible even when calling their customer service and always backed up 1 month for service. So check out VW's service and parts, they never had parts in stock and never fix the problems that are wrong with the car- they always classify as "operating to Mfr.Specs". Just my 2 cents.
Also, the Benz has a bigger rarity factor and is far nicer in design and appearance than the GTi and also it's a Benz-enough said.
03-13-2002, 07:44 PM
#34
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Originally posted by tommy
Actually, I thought that these were generally very mature responses. Put the initial question on vw vortex, and see what kind of responses you'd get.
But, I also have to agree with MB-BOB; if you didn't like driving the car, why waste our time? We could have spent all of this time and energy on the always-interesting "how to raise children with money without spoiling them" thread.
Actually, I thought that these were generally very mature responses. Put the initial question on vw vortex, and see what kind of responses you'd get.
But, I also have to agree with MB-BOB; if you didn't like driving the car, why waste our time? We could have spent all of this time and energy on the always-interesting "how to raise children with money without spoiling them" thread.
03-13-2002, 08:00 PM
#35
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2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
I can't believe this all happened since I last checked in...
The C230 reall is a better driving, better handling, safer, more reliable..... car than ANY VR6 GTI... the VR6 is a complete piece of *****, it takes the thing about V6s that causes the most trouble (the internal angle0 and makes it one big whack-assed mess... a V6 should be 60*... any thing else its pointless to even try making it run smooth. if you really want a nice GTI, get the 180hp 1.8T... its a smoother motor with a better service history and performance potential that is sky-high. the VR6 is really a waste of everyone's time and money... in 30,000 miles, when its starting to shake and rattle everything, you'll believe.
as said earlier, (and comming again froma n owner in your price segment) there really is no substitute for the engineering quality of mercedes. I will admit that I am concerned about the recent decline in the build quality of their vehicles compared to the past but they are still far ahead of VW in fit-and-finish and quality of materials...
also, out-of-the-box, the GTIs handling is too vague and very soft... almost like they used the lightest sprigns that they could get away with... and while I wouldn't pit the C230 against a sport-spec-ed 3-series in the twistys, the 230's poise would embarrass the VW.
these are simply the thoughts, ramblings, and musings of a poor, lonely, unappreciated BMW owner... take it for what its worth.
The C230 reall is a better driving, better handling, safer, more reliable..... car than ANY VR6 GTI... the VR6 is a complete piece of *****, it takes the thing about V6s that causes the most trouble (the internal angle0 and makes it one big whack-assed mess... a V6 should be 60*... any thing else its pointless to even try making it run smooth. if you really want a nice GTI, get the 180hp 1.8T... its a smoother motor with a better service history and performance potential that is sky-high. the VR6 is really a waste of everyone's time and money... in 30,000 miles, when its starting to shake and rattle everything, you'll believe.
as said earlier, (and comming again froma n owner in your price segment) there really is no substitute for the engineering quality of mercedes. I will admit that I am concerned about the recent decline in the build quality of their vehicles compared to the past but they are still far ahead of VW in fit-and-finish and quality of materials...
also, out-of-the-box, the GTIs handling is too vague and very soft... almost like they used the lightest sprigns that they could get away with... and while I wouldn't pit the C230 against a sport-spec-ed 3-series in the twistys, the 230's poise would embarrass the VW.
these are simply the thoughts, ramblings, and musings of a poor, lonely, unappreciated BMW owner... take it for what its worth.
03-13-2002, 08:05 PM
#36
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2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
Originally posted by MB-BOB
This VW troll quit this thread 9 hours ago. Let's not waste any more of our time.
This VW troll quit this thread 9 hours ago. Let's not waste any more of our time.
03-14-2002, 08:57 AM
#38
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Just open the car doors and look at the hinges. This will tell you what car to buy! If MB makes hinges that well imagine the rest of the cars engineering. Besides, have you seen may 10 year old GTIs on the road? Or even 10 year old BMWs?
03-14-2002, 10:04 AM
#39
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Crossfire Coupe
Dasmafia,
I agree with you in that the GTi would never compare with the C230, however you are very wrong in stating that the VR6 engine is a piece of ****. I have owned three VR6's one of which has 170,000 trouble free miles. It is the smoothest powerplant (V6) I've driven and has gobs of torque. Don't mock what you haven't experienced. I have experienced 170,000 vibration free miles with my VR6 and it is a very powerful engine that was designed to fit in the engine bay of four cylinders. I agree that the GTi and VW are more overrated than ever and they pretty much suck in Service and Quality, however, their engines are very strong.
I agree with you in that the GTi would never compare with the C230, however you are very wrong in stating that the VR6 engine is a piece of ****. I have owned three VR6's one of which has 170,000 trouble free miles. It is the smoothest powerplant (V6) I've driven and has gobs of torque. Don't mock what you haven't experienced. I have experienced 170,000 vibration free miles with my VR6 and it is a very powerful engine that was designed to fit in the engine bay of four cylinders. I agree that the GTi and VW are more overrated than ever and they pretty much suck in Service and Quality, however, their engines are very strong.
03-14-2002, 10:17 AM
#40
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03 W8 Passat Variant
I have to disagree about the VR6 motor also. I had my 2000 GTI Chipped and the intake changed and I was getting 210hp from a very smooth reliable engine. This was my 10th VW. I feel for the price point of a GTI still some 1500 below the base C coupe that you get alot of nice items standard. Plus they are always rated one of the best looking German interiors for their price point.
Not saying the Benz isn't great, but there is alot of things that could be changed you guys have said it yourselves. Manual seat adjustment. Electronic climate system not available. VW has made great strides in quality over the past few years. Lets face it we can now purchase a 250k Volkswagen Arnage.
The guy that started this thread and I had a private message and he said he was only trying to get a decent opinion from people who actually owned the car.
Maybe sometimes we are a little harsh as in the other thread with Pismeov. I realize the name is rather harsh but We tend to attack like wolves sometimes. Myself included.
Not saying the Benz isn't great, but there is alot of things that could be changed you guys have said it yourselves. Manual seat adjustment. Electronic climate system not available. VW has made great strides in quality over the past few years. Lets face it we can now purchase a 250k Volkswagen Arnage.
The guy that started this thread and I had a private message and he said he was only trying to get a decent opinion from people who actually owned the car.
Maybe sometimes we are a little harsh as in the other thread with Pismeov. I realize the name is rather harsh but We tend to attack like wolves sometimes. Myself included.
03-14-2002, 10:30 AM
#41
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1991 mr2 turbo, 2002 coupe
Benzo,
Let it be already.
Das,
I wish my Benz's engine was 1/2 as smooth as the VR6's. I can't speak for either of their longevities however.
Let it be already.
Das,
I wish my Benz's engine was 1/2 as smooth as the VR6's. I can't speak for either of their longevities however.
03-14-2002, 10:34 AM
#42
Out Of Control!!
Well, I think the responses on the thread started well. My problem with it was that he hadn't initially said that he had driven the ccoupe already, and had pretty much decided against it. Then he started defending VWs and people took the ball and ran with it.
I agree that it did get like a feeding frenzy here, but he wasn't totally upfront about what he was asking about. If he had started with, "I drove both the ccoupe and gti, and I'm leaning towards the gti for these reasons:" I think that people wouldn't have turned on him. Or at least, not so quickly.
But, I will have to reiterate one of my first points: people here were much more tame than the VW Vortex would have been; trust me, I know - I posted there when I was waffeling on the gti/c230 thing, and it wasn't pretty.
I will totally agree about the pismeov thing - people got nasty from the get-go, and I don't really see why.
If I were deciding between gti's, I would get the 1.8t. You chip that, and you're already at 201 hp or so. Plus, you'd have all of that excess cash to work with, so you could get tons of mods for the $3k difference. Also, lighter weight, as someone mentioned earlier.
I agree that it did get like a feeding frenzy here, but he wasn't totally upfront about what he was asking about. If he had started with, "I drove both the ccoupe and gti, and I'm leaning towards the gti for these reasons:" I think that people wouldn't have turned on him. Or at least, not so quickly.
But, I will have to reiterate one of my first points: people here were much more tame than the VW Vortex would have been; trust me, I know - I posted there when I was waffeling on the gti/c230 thing, and it wasn't pretty.
I will totally agree about the pismeov thing - people got nasty from the get-go, and I don't really see why.
If I were deciding between gti's, I would get the 1.8t. You chip that, and you're already at 201 hp or so. Plus, you'd have all of that excess cash to work with, so you could get tons of mods for the $3k difference. Also, lighter weight, as someone mentioned earlier.
03-14-2002, 12:38 PM
#44
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1991 mr2 turbo, 2002 coupe
Benzo,
Disregard my previous post. I thought you were still throwing stones calling one of us "pismeov" from that old phantom thread because I hadn't read that W202/W203 thread until just now. My bad.
Disregard my previous post. I thought you were still throwing stones calling one of us "pismeov" from that old phantom thread because I hadn't read that W202/W203 thread until just now. My bad.
03-14-2002, 12:49 PM
#45
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2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
Originally posted by Black230
Dasmafia,
I agree with you in that the GTi would never compare with the C230, however you are very wrong in stating that the VR6 engine is a piece of ****. I have owned three VR6's one of which has 170,000 trouble free miles. It is the smoothest powerplant (V6) I've driven and has gobs of torque. Don't mock what you haven't experienced. I have experienced 170,000 vibration free miles with my VR6 and it is a very powerful engine that was designed to fit in the engine bay of four cylinders. I agree that the GTi and VW are more overrated than ever and they pretty much suck in Service and Quality, however, their engines are very strong.
Dasmafia,
I agree with you in that the GTi would never compare with the C230, however you are very wrong in stating that the VR6 engine is a piece of ****. I have owned three VR6's one of which has 170,000 trouble free miles. It is the smoothest powerplant (V6) I've driven and has gobs of torque. Don't mock what you haven't experienced. I have experienced 170,000 vibration free miles with my VR6 and it is a very powerful engine that was designed to fit in the engine bay of four cylinders. I agree that the GTi and VW are more overrated than ever and they pretty much suck in Service and Quality, however, their engines are very strong.
03-14-2002, 01:00 PM
#46
Originally posted by tommy
Well, I think the responses on the thread started well. My problem with it was that he hadn't initially said that he had driven the ccoupe already, and had pretty much decided against it. Then he started defending VWs and people took the ball and ran with it.
I agree that it did get like a feeding frenzy here, but he wasn't totally upfront about what he was asking about. If he had started with, "I drove both the ccoupe and gti, and I'm leaning towards the gti for these reasons:" I think that people wouldn't have turned on him. Or at least, not so quickly.
Well, I think the responses on the thread started well. My problem with it was that he hadn't initially said that he had driven the ccoupe already, and had pretty much decided against it. Then he started defending VWs and people took the ball and ran with it.
I agree that it did get like a feeding frenzy here, but he wasn't totally upfront about what he was asking about. If he had started with, "I drove both the ccoupe and gti, and I'm leaning towards the gti for these reasons:" I think that people wouldn't have turned on him. Or at least, not so quickly.
BTW, I think you made a good choice. I have a workmate with a 1.8T Passat. He drives it like an old lady, like the 1600cc (68hp) motor in my '77 Honda Accord, (which really couldn't get out of it's own way... but it was smoother than any powerplant, today).
Based on this, I've formulated a general rule that I will not buy a car (for myself) with an engine equal in size or smaller than what I can get in a motorcycle, regardless of how it performs. Yes, things have changed in 24 years, but the "turbo" age has come and gone in the US, and I think the old adage still applies, "there is no substitute for cubic inches."
03-14-2002, 01:12 PM
#47
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Originally posted by MB-BOB
He drives it like an old lady, like the 1600cc (68hp) motor in my '77 Honda Accord, (which really couldn't get out of it's own way... but it was smoother than any powerplant, today).
He drives it like an old lady, like the 1600cc (68hp) motor in my '77 Honda Accord, (which really couldn't get out of it's own way... but it was smoother than any powerplant, today).
04-12-2002, 04:58 PM
#49
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Originally posted by s4mann
Isn't the new 24-valve VR6 GTI going to have the 4-motion quattro system? It does in Europe.
Isn't the new 24-valve VR6 GTI going to have the 4-motion quattro system? It does in Europe.
04-13-2002, 03:34 PM
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Audi S4
I just read through the whole thing... he was misleading, first "open minded" and then "I just cant get myself to like the car" ??? To me the argument is over with 3 letters: R W D Not to mention the GTI is a relic of the past, the styling is left over from the mid-90's (I know is was updated a few years ago, but it still looks old). Why buy an overweight VR6 when a 230 can be putting out ~230 hp at the flywheel with a $900 upgrade (unless you are going for 300-400hp).
