m271 c230k hp gains
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c230 coupe
m271 c230k hp gains
hey guys i have a c55 i also have a crashed c230 coupe with the full kleemann kit in my backyard. Today i bought a c230k 2003 with the m271 engine is no good. i been on the forums for years. im gonna swap out my motor into the new one its has kleemann headers, cat, pulley kit ,kbox and k and n filter. im going to need a exhaust. i was wondering and willing to spend money is there any more upgrades. back in the day i herd of throttle body boring. i recently read a post about porting and polishing the supercharger. i am willing to spend money. i have plenty of funds.
I KNOW YOU GUYS HERD THIS OVER AND OVER. PLEASE FOR A OLD MEMBER LETS SEE WHAT YOU GUYS CAN BRING TO THE TABLE.
In the past i have spent 4-5 grand on my old coupe just for power
please guys give me your input
I KNOW YOU GUYS HERD THIS OVER AND OVER. PLEASE FOR A OLD MEMBER LETS SEE WHAT YOU GUYS CAN BRING TO THE TABLE.
In the past i have spent 4-5 grand on my old coupe just for power
please guys give me your input
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From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
At this point, your best friend would probably be suspension work and lightening the car. Exhaust won't get you much, so the only real adjustments would be a swap, turbo, nitrous, or very customized internals.
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turbo throw me some idea i wonder what custom piggy back ecu i can use .
and if not i dont mind going all motor with custom internals. i know ill be getting about 240hp 253 tq once i port and polish the supercharger and bore the throttle body. but just want some more i guess i gotta search in german im pretty sure they have converted it to a turbo.
need the exhaust for better sound i guess im gonna have it straght pipe to muffler. i wonder if that drexxappeal is around to guide me on the throttle body bore. kleemann kit is pretty bad *** by the way. ill figure something out guys. im sure
and if not i dont mind going all motor with custom internals. i know ill be getting about 240hp 253 tq once i port and polish the supercharger and bore the throttle body. but just want some more i guess i gotta search in german im pretty sure they have converted it to a turbo.
need the exhaust for better sound i guess im gonna have it straght pipe to muffler. i wonder if that drexxappeal is around to guide me on the throttle body bore. kleemann kit is pretty bad *** by the way. ill figure something out guys. im sure
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c230 coupe
MAJOR UPDATE
GUYS me and my mercedes mechenic have some great ideas.my guy is amazing he is from germany and he has a e55 with some custom internals he put some slr internals in his car he claims. anyway he wants to rip aprt my block check out the internals and what cn be done. he says we can def find some internals for it. since my project so far hasn't cost me much ill risk the first engine i have. . if anyone knows the max amount of boost the supercharger can take itall help me out alot. thanks guys.
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
if you already have C55, why bother? the M271 North American version has had most of the tweaks/mods done already by the factory, it puts out more power than other world versions of the same engine (C180, C200). While today the power seems modest, back in the day it was a pretty powerful engine for its size putting out 105 BHP/L not too many production cars 10 years ago could brag about that.
Given the age and design I would be saying that you are chasing Unicorns to get any significant power gains and still have a reliable package, not to mention money that is not well spent. Use that money to tweak your C55
I am suspect that your friend will know better than the team of engineers that designed the engine. Remember that the production engine is a compromise between: power-reliabiltiy-fuel economy . They try to maximize the best out of the three, change one of the components and you lose the others. One can get huge power out of a small engine eg F1 but the engines only last about 1000miles and get 4 mpg
Our engine is not a big ole lazy American V8 that can accept various mods to significantly up the HP and still remain usable and reliable.
I go with what Tommy said
Given the age and design I would be saying that you are chasing Unicorns to get any significant power gains and still have a reliable package, not to mention money that is not well spent. Use that money to tweak your C55
I am suspect that your friend will know better than the team of engineers that designed the engine. Remember that the production engine is a compromise between: power-reliabiltiy-fuel economy . They try to maximize the best out of the three, change one of the components and you lose the others. One can get huge power out of a small engine eg F1 but the engines only last about 1000miles and get 4 mpg
Our engine is not a big ole lazy American V8 that can accept various mods to significantly up the HP and still remain usable and reliable.
I go with what Tommy said
Last edited by Boom vang; Oct 31, 2014 at 09:03 AM.
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c230 coupe
i agree the engne is great just wanted to get 275 hp with a turbo and deleting that supercharger. if its possible why not and if not. i wont go crazy. i guess with the kleemann kit i have and with the kleemann headers i should have enough what you guys hink ill be puching out. plus now ill have a 6 speed too.
my c55 spits out gas like nothing i like the way it is. i did tune it and i have a straght pipe from headers to muffle so its fast *** hell. but i just wanted to hook up my m271 the best way possible.
bottom line the only other work we probably going to do is
port and polish the head
try to get some cams
and bore the throttle body
thats it
if im doing 250 i guess i can call it a day
my c55 spits out gas like nothing i like the way it is. i did tune it and i have a straght pipe from headers to muffle so its fast *** hell. but i just wanted to hook up my m271 the best way possible.
bottom line the only other work we probably going to do is
port and polish the head
try to get some cams
and bore the throttle body
thats it
if im doing 250 i guess i can call it a day
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c230 coupe
Guys I got money
I hope you guys help me out. If I turbo it will someone be able to point me to a piggy back system
I know all motor it can handle about 17 psi of boost easily that'll get me too 275hp
I know all motor it can handle about 17 psi of boost easily that'll get me too 275hp
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From: Thessaloniki, Greece
Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
The most hp you can gain modding the M271 with the M45 are 206RWHP (about 240HP at the crank). You can read all about at the link below:
https://mbworld.org/forums/performan...5-porting.html
I have done all the mods twice and the cars are going very nice. Nice tuning but expensive.
If you go turbo, you can reach 280hp with a Garrett GT2560R and you will not need any piggy back system. The ECU SIM4LKE is just fine. You only need to find a tuner who has access to the maps for the Air Fuel Ratio, Timing Advance, Fuel trims. The OEM fuel system works at 3,8bar so you can use a Fuel Pressure Regulator in order to rise it at 5bar like Kleeman with the Kbox. There are some more details which you have to discuss with the man who will carry on the project. The most important is to find the right man who knows what to do and not to make experiments with your car. But you must know that pushing the engine to that limits, some time in the future you might have some problems. The M271 is not the most reliable engine for tuning to the stage that you want. Anyway good luck with your mods.
PS You don't have to change the internals of the engine, because MAP at 1 bar is ok with it.
https://mbworld.org/forums/performan...5-porting.html
I have done all the mods twice and the cars are going very nice. Nice tuning but expensive.
If you go turbo, you can reach 280hp with a Garrett GT2560R and you will not need any piggy back system. The ECU SIM4LKE is just fine. You only need to find a tuner who has access to the maps for the Air Fuel Ratio, Timing Advance, Fuel trims. The OEM fuel system works at 3,8bar so you can use a Fuel Pressure Regulator in order to rise it at 5bar like Kleeman with the Kbox. There are some more details which you have to discuss with the man who will carry on the project. The most important is to find the right man who knows what to do and not to make experiments with your car. But you must know that pushing the engine to that limits, some time in the future you might have some problems. The M271 is not the most reliable engine for tuning to the stage that you want. Anyway good luck with your mods.
PS You don't have to change the internals of the engine, because MAP at 1 bar is ok with it.
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2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
sounds like a lot of work and expense and not the most reliable for your everyday car that you count on getting you to work
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Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
If you dont hammer the gas petal everytime I dont think that the engine would have any problem. Dont forget that the supercharger consumes 35Hp from the engine in order to spin with factory pulley set. I am spinning mine at about 20.000rpm so I estimate this loses at 40-42Hp. I am talking for boost at 1bar (all the M271 with kbox working at 1bar without any problem all this years), which is not a big deal. If you make some maths you can see that the 270Hp is not so hard to be reached. The cost it will not be more than 2.500 - 3.000€.
Last edited by gogos; Nov 2, 2014 at 03:34 PM.
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c230 coupe
wow thanks
so would i be doing 280hp at the wheels. Also i dont have to build internals. so i really dont think its going to be that crazy expensive my guy says he has a guy for the maps that wasnt are issue he just want me to find out if some one has done it before for experience. i will show him this and will start laying out the project. if any one has more for me it will be great. if we do build can we use a bigger turbo or run more boost. like i said im not trying to run crazy power. also any ideas where i should bolt the turbo i would like it right on top so much room.
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honestly
after i spoke to my guy we arent worried about tuning due to his long experience. i am telling you this guy is amazing with mercedes. plus hes doing it because he likes to do custom jobs like this its what he enjoys and he told me im not going to charge you crazy labor neither because this is my passion.
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please guys im really looking foward to seeing a setup if not ideas would help
whatever i do ill be posting the pics as i go along thanks
by the way i already have my stock c55 suspension and sway bars
all ill need is a brake kit but thatll be last once the project is under way
whatever i do ill be posting the pics as i go along thanks
by the way i already have my stock c55 suspension and sway bars
all ill need is a brake kit but thatll be last once the project is under way
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From: Thessaloniki, Greece
Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
I never speak about 280Hp @ the wheels, but only @ the crank. The remap of SIM4LKE (M271 ECU) is not easy job. If the tuner has not the Damos files (files which allow access to the ECU maps) he couldn't be able:
1. to change the target A/F ratio and even if you rise the values on the fuel maps after some khm the ECU will cut the added fuel in order to keep the A/F R at the factory values.
2. to change the values of the pressure map. If you don't do so then the ECU will give CEL every time that the pressure is more the 0.75bar (factory value), opening the bypass valve trying to keep the boost at 0.75bar because the ECU doesn't know that the sc is missing.
3. to adjust the fuel trims.
Also DO NOT disconnect the electronic bypass valve which is at the back side of the sc.
Keep in mind that the OEM MAP sensor limits out at 1bar.
With OEM internals DO NOT rise the boost more than 1.1bar overboost.
With the turbochargers is not right "the bigger the better". You want the turbo to be able to spool from about 2.800 - 3.000rpm, in order to eliminate turbo lag. If you put the GT2860 RS "disco potato" you will have lag issues, because it spools at about 4.000rpm and you dont want instant power at this rpm during a turn. You don't want a drag car. Keep in mind that the M271 has issues with valves and you have to be carefull.
Again be sure that the guy who will carry out the project, to know what he is doing.
Good luck.
1. to change the target A/F ratio and even if you rise the values on the fuel maps after some khm the ECU will cut the added fuel in order to keep the A/F R at the factory values.
2. to change the values of the pressure map. If you don't do so then the ECU will give CEL every time that the pressure is more the 0.75bar (factory value), opening the bypass valve trying to keep the boost at 0.75bar because the ECU doesn't know that the sc is missing.
3. to adjust the fuel trims.
Also DO NOT disconnect the electronic bypass valve which is at the back side of the sc.
Keep in mind that the OEM MAP sensor limits out at 1bar.
With OEM internals DO NOT rise the boost more than 1.1bar overboost.
With the turbochargers is not right "the bigger the better". You want the turbo to be able to spool from about 2.800 - 3.000rpm, in order to eliminate turbo lag. If you put the GT2860 RS "disco potato" you will have lag issues, because it spools at about 4.000rpm and you dont want instant power at this rpm during a turn. You don't want a drag car. Keep in mind that the M271 has issues with valves and you have to be carefull.
Again be sure that the guy who will carry out the project, to know what he is doing.
Good luck.
Last edited by gogos; Nov 4, 2014 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Spelling & add some coments
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c230 coupe
Spare block
My guy wants to do some interior work like the valves and port and polish the heads I spoke to him about the demos files he said I got that all covered he said we used that on 55 for a custom tune. The tune is not our problem but he I'm wants to beef up the motor a little. Idk why didn't go I. To detail. I really don't want to chop up my kleemann headers to use for the turbo mount so I'm gonna have to shop around for some headers. I also have the bigger fuel pump that kleemann made for the car so that's a plus. He also wants to port and polish the head. That sux 206 to the wheels is the max we can do with the kleemann. Kit he's looking for ways around the turbo but he agrees with everyone on that. Mercedes built a great motor. I know a lot of you guys out there don't have faith but the guy who's doing it is something g else I wish I can show you how many different Mercedes he has that have something semi am at his shop. He's reag into it cause nobody go serious power before out of this car.
Please if you have done something out of the ordinary with these cars let me know don't give up guys.
Please if you have done something out of the ordinary with these cars let me know don't give up guys.
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From: Thessaloniki, Greece
Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
The Kleeman header has thin tubes and the will crack with the weight of the turbo and the big temperature. It is better to sell them and make a custom one. The boost kit didn't go with bigger fuel pump but only with a fuel pressure regulator in order to rise the pressure in the fuel line from 3.8bar (OEM) to 5bar. For my opinion is not so good to rise the boost because the fuel pump may have issues. It is better to put bigger injectors, in order to keep the duty cycle no more than 75 - 80%. About the valve head, let it for later. There isn't any camshafts for the M271. If I remember well, only shrink made customs but they stop selling them. MKB have camshafts but they didn't sell them separately.
In my opinion first get ride of the sc and put a turbo, then setup the ECU remap, dyno it and then if you aren't happy from the car then see what else you can do. Keep in mind that the gear box and the differential will not be very happy with more power.
But its your car and your call.
In my opinion first get ride of the sc and put a turbo, then setup the ECU remap, dyno it and then if you aren't happy from the car then see what else you can do. Keep in mind that the gear box and the differential will not be very happy with more power.
But its your car and your call.
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c230 coupe
I thaught the gear box will be able to handle 250-260 to the wheels . So basically don't do anything delete the super charger and put the turbo in
Then tune and pray everything is correct then will go to seek more power good I des agree . So should I use the same amount of fuel with the kleemann kit like this or should we figure out what injectors we gonna use. By the way with your whole project with the supercharger what did u gain
Then tune and pray everything is correct then will go to seek more power good I des agree . So should I use the same amount of fuel with the kleemann kit like this or should we figure out what injectors we gonna use. By the way with your whole project with the supercharger what did u gain
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From: Thessaloniki, Greece
Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
The gear box will handle the power but it will not last if you hammer it every time you start moving. You have to use this power carefully.
The only way to see if the Kleemann fuel setup is covering the needs of your engine, is to check the A/F R with a wideband O2 sensor. It is the most important on an engine. If it running lean then it may caboom.
The sc porting project give 245Hp @ crank.
Doing some maths, if you earn the 40Hp that the SC want to spin due to its parasitic losses, then putting a turbo you will end with 275-280 Hp, and the engine will work at the same pressure, better air and more freely because the turbo uses the exhaust gasses.
Don't keep up with the Hp numbers. Just dyno your car at the same dyno every time, in order to have a point of reference. The power at the wheels is VERY painful story. For me the road is the best dyno and the way that every car put out on it the power.
Also keep in mind that another important issue when tuning a car is the way that it can stop. Your brakes will get tired very soon. I have gone 6-4 pistons and they never have issues.
PS Many people thing that the bigger brakes will stop the car under any use. It is wrong, only a wish driving will give safety. All the other from brakes to suspension and engine power will increase the safety.
The only way to see if the Kleemann fuel setup is covering the needs of your engine, is to check the A/F R with a wideband O2 sensor. It is the most important on an engine. If it running lean then it may caboom.
The sc porting project give 245Hp @ crank.
Doing some maths, if you earn the 40Hp that the SC want to spin due to its parasitic losses, then putting a turbo you will end with 275-280 Hp, and the engine will work at the same pressure, better air and more freely because the turbo uses the exhaust gasses.
Don't keep up with the Hp numbers. Just dyno your car at the same dyno every time, in order to have a point of reference. The power at the wheels is VERY painful story. For me the road is the best dyno and the way that every car put out on it the power.
Also keep in mind that another important issue when tuning a car is the way that it can stop. Your brakes will get tired very soon. I have gone 6-4 pistons and they never have issues.
PS Many people thing that the bigger brakes will stop the car under any use. It is wrong, only a wish driving will give safety. All the other from brakes to suspension and engine power will increase the safety.
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c230 coupe
suspension and brakes
i think i have it covered ill show you setup when its done now going on to the motor have you seen the torque on the m266 engine just compare it to the m271. i know its 2 different complete motors but still the torque on that thing is nice. and when you got 245 at the crank did you have any other mods please let me know the other mods you have. i have an extra supercharger lol.
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From: Thessaloniki, Greece
Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
i think i have it covered ill show you setup when its done now going on to the motor have you seen the torque on the m266 engine just compare it to the m271. i know its 2 different complete motors but still the torque on that thing is nice. and when you got 245 at the crank did you have any other mods please let me know the other mods you have. i have an extra supercharger lol.
- FPR 5bar
- Pulley set aka Kleemann
- Headers with deleted precat and keep only the second under the car
- Free flow exhaust back box
- Eaton ...2760 with 62mm pulley which spins at 22.000rpm at 7.000rpm red line.
- SC porting
- Bigger IC
- All the rubber hoses after the SC including the plastic resonator after SC replaced with aluminum
- Replaced the plastic elbow in front of the throttle body, with aluminum one
- Intercooler water spray injection, because the air at 22.000rpm gets VERY hot.
- Spark plugs one step colder
- And last the ECU remap. It's the most important from all. The SIM4LKE is not very easy ECU to tune. Without the damos files you will not be able to hp gains. If your tuner has full access to the ECU files, then tell him to saw you on the screen the map for the intake pressure, the MAF and the target A/F ratio. If he can do so then proceed with the mods you want. If not what ever you do, no matter how fast you will spin the SC the ECU will fight back in order to keep the values to the preset ones.
Again good luck.
Last edited by gogos; Nov 6, 2014 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Post more comments
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245 all you got
Wow man I'm shocked you took all the juice out of the supercharger that really sucks man. How fast you doing your 0-60 not like matters I have some timing from my old one in 2007 with My coupe which was wide body lol
