Yes... that was then sir. Car looks quite different now tho. hehe

 

You guess eh? That's just great MBworld. You should really find out the facts before you assume things. MCtwin2kman hit it right on the nail... And you guys have no real defense but just to say he was selling when in fact he DID NOT and tried to keep it offline. Can he help that people are interested in the product and want to know more? He hasn't sold ONE piece to anyone as everything is a one off at the moment. Did you know this?

So lets say I'm a shop owner and I own a mercedes benz. I post pictures of all the mods on my car but I'm just an enthusiast who loves MBworld. Can I help it that people ask me where I get my parts from and who does my work? what makes it so different just because my occupation is a shop owner if I don't Advertise on your site... I just post pictures as an enthusiast. Would I get banned as well? I think you guys need to make up your minds as to what your rules are. Advertising is when you publicly announce that you are selling things. Just because you know I own a shop should not automatically be cause for banning me. This is the impression you are making for this site. sorry to say.

Also for your information... we all know it costs money to maintain forums and online communities such as MBworld. Just to let you know, Sponsors may help pay for the costs of running it but they also are helping in tearing things down by pulling moves like this. There is a reason that www.csportcoupe.com has no sponsors nor do any of his other sites. Yes, Terry pays for all if it himself out of his own pocket. Terry's enthusiasm is the only sponsor for his sites.

 

First of all I have to say i disagree with this comment....... the customer is always right? Where do you work? at the certain chain with a smiley face? Do you run a business you own? DO you have any ideas regarding the pressures etc? So please don't start preaching about "the customer is always right." I think too m any people take this for granted and assume that every business should give them the lowest price and bend over backwards while they are at it. As I have said before, ultimately it is evo's website. Don't like it? then leave. In all fairness, most of the people that have been b*tching about this are the same ones who tried to raise hell and got pissy about the group buy situation. THey jumped on the bandwagon before getting all the facts. I feel they managed to exacerbate this situation rather than try to rectify it. I still don't have ALL of the facts but everyone incessantly b*tching about it isn't going to help solve the problem. Terry seems like a really nice guy and so do the guys from EVO. I honestly think this is a small inconvenience that both parties could be laughing about had it not been blow up by the everyone else. Flame me if you wish....but realize I am not taking any sides: just merely pointing out the obvious.

BTW .... I think terry's forum looks great and is loaded with helpful information. i will probably be posting more over there until MBWORLD gets the pic attachment etc figured out and server issues fixed. I won't be abandoning MBW however.....

 

Chaoticboy: Just wondering, if your not selling anything or trying to gather up interest, why in the world would you have links of your photos in such forums such as the R230's and the W220's? Maybe I'm wrong and that was Harris' thread...

 

"The customer is always right" statement should not always be taken literally. It means that you should do whatever you can to service your customers, while maintaining a profitable business. It does not mean that you should give away your product and not make a profit

Many large companies (not just Walmart) use this model of customer service and it has proven to be very effective.

--Not flaming you, just wanted to point this out.

 

I know you aren't flaming me rev . but too many people seem to miss the "profitable business" aspect of customer service. They come across with a threatening attitude trying to say "i will take my money elsewhere.." for example, I am sure evo appreciates the business of any member here but people need to stop using it as a "threatening tool/blunt of their argument." Just the vibe I am getting........

 

It could also definitely mean I'm a post *****. There are many reasons why people post in multiple categories. Just because you THINK he's doing something doesn't necessarily mean he is.

And since he specifically posted that people should email me privately for more info means he's at least trying to respect the forum's rules am I wrong?

I've heard other stories that I do not wish to bring into this conversation that leads me to believe that MBworld is being mismoderated. When it's not in the interest of the sponsors as they don't carry the item.... it gets scratched off the forums. The whole point of MBworld is to be an immense source of information.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... I know how invaluable a good forum with it's content and member contribution. What I'm seeing now is that sponsors are ruining how MBworld should be by moderating this way. I've been a member of another forum, Audiworld for 4 years. I've seen people come and go but one thing is for sure... it's invaluable because it's moderated properly. People have come and go... and I know I've violated some rules in the past... I was warned... and that was it. Never to the point that it required that I be banned. I've postwhored my pics all over before because I was excited about my new mod. Never intending to sell any of it for profit. People got annoyed... but hey... the forum moderated itself and now I don't postwhore as much .. haha

MBworld should keep and open mind and give it's members the benefit of the doubt. If nothing else... we're all enthusiasts who love our cars and what we do.

Sorry for the ramble... but hey... that's my 2 cents.

 

Brad,

Once again thanks. You helped a lot. At first I thought the post in question was a PM to a sponsor as stated somewhere in this thread or one of the many others that have disappeared. See this is the case where leaving the thread viewable but locked or closed would have helped, since non of us saw the post in question. Now we all have to go by he said she said instead of having un-edited proof from the thread in question. As you stated earlier this had to do with conacting a sponsor which you said he did, but you never mentioned that after all the sponsors said no that he decided to apparantly post the info needed to obtain these, either through him as a company or him as a forum user. This is where is gets all fuzzy for me at least and many others from what I am reading. So even if I own a business, come up with something neat, offer to sponsor, sponsor declines and I can not post anything because I have a business, so the forum members who want it lose out as there is no where to go. What a good business would have done, is the sponsors want nothing to do with it, so then I am free to sell on my own. That is how it should work. With steps on how to do it the right way spelled out and that way everyone is happy. Can't have the sponsors say no to selling something and then making it so no one else that is a member of this forum take part in the aftermarket or mod pleasure. This is where I assume the line was crossed and of course now we will never truly know.

So lets get this straight.

He showed his stuff. Someone liked it and inquired as how to get a hold of it for themselves. He did not tell then as it is against the rules. He contacted the sponsors for the site and no one wanted them there. So he then posted some sort of info that he was in fact willing to sell them. He was warned and ignored it, then got banned eventually and the thread deleted per the policy in question. Am I off somewhere. Then all this started. Please fill in the appropriate info so we are all on the same page. Try to leave out the TOU crap and leaglise and just give it to us in English like I stated if you can. Then we all can end this debate and truly understand what we can do without being banned or warned.

Thanks again Brad and I am just trying to make this as clear as humanly possible.

 

it's simple... he posted pics... and he spoke to Ben at Evo who was quite enthusiastic about it. Nothing came out of that.

His pic post was meant to share with the community what he has recently done with the car. that's what we all do. The only reason he was banned was because he told Ben who now knows he can get the stuff himself. Those who were interested... inquired of course because they wanted to know where terry got the parts. He told them to email him offline as to keep within the rules of the TOU. If terry were up to something... and completely intended to just make it all on his own, he would never have shared that info with evo and he would never have been banned. For his enthusiasm and honesty and willing to share, he has been banned.

 

No. There is no difference in explicitly saying something is for sale and implying it. If you are a business and not a sponsor of this website, you are prohibited from advertising here. It's that simple.

 

mctwin2kman,

I apologize for the brief response, but I am late for a meeting!

Most of the facts you mention are correct, however their order is a little off. For instance, evosport was not made known of the carbon fiber until after the thread was posted in numerous forums. Also, the first post (made by Kineda) in the thread started by saying that he carries the carbon fiber trim (above the pictures) and closed with asking people to contact him for more information (after the pictures). This IMO is soliciting sales.

Now forget the fact that sponsors did not want to carry the trim. Our advertising fee, currently set at $199 per month, is far less than what any sponsor can potentially earn through sales on MBWorld. How many carbon fiber kits do you think would have to be sold to offset the advertising costs? I can almost guarantee you that it would be less than 1. Tery simply decided to try to work around the system instead of playing by the rules.

Thanks,

Ben

 

No, this is nothing but misinformation that you are repeatedly spreading after the facts from both sides have been made present. The fact that you have in other posts admitted to being a personal friend of Kineda only makes your posts more bias. Let's try to stick to the truth, rather than avoiding it!

Thanks,

Ben

 

You should take your own advice.

Can you spell out for me what constitutes advertising on your forum? Not in your own words but in the words of your beloved TOU.

Posting pictures of anything can be advertising the way you are playing the game. I'm not manipulating or changing the facts at all. All I'm saying is that you need to make clear with yourself and your moderators where the line is. What is black and white. There is no I think or I guess in that.

He approached you guys about the trim. whether or not you guys like it or not... he would have probably posted the pics of his interior. Which he did. (nothing wrong so far) if people like it or not they comment and ask questions (nothing wrong so far) and if people wanted to ask where to get it and such... he chose to take it offline instead of discussing it on your forums as he knows that is not allowed. (nothing wrong so far)

The only difference is you know he can import the stuff himself. If he never told you this would never be an issue now would it. He would never have been banned. So just because you know this fact "offline" does not make it right for you to ban him just because he was sharing his new mod to the public. That's part of the enthusiasm this board is "supposed" to have.

You guys were the ones who blew it out of proportion. You guys were the ones who read into the post too far. And you guys chose to deal with the situation the way you did. These are all your choices. Sounds biased to me.

 

Nope, a bit off, once again I will walk through the chronology step by step so there is no confusion (thanks for being patient and mature, unlike others here!)

1. Terry posted the items in a thread he started. The thread contained text that he was the exclusive importer and that we would be selling them. He also included pricing, and asked people to contact him directly.

2. A moderator PM'ed him and asked him to remove/edit his post.

3. Terry and Mach430 spoke, and Mach430 asked Terry to do the same. Terry then proceeded to discuss the product with Mach430. He confirmed that he is in this as a business and wished to sell directly to us and other shops. Mach430 confirmed that this conversation also took place with another sponsor.

4. Terry then responded to Awiner (mod) to "stop picking on his posts" and that he was discussing selling the kits to evosport. Well, that has no impact on the rules to the board.

5. Terry took "pot-shot's" at the mod on the thread.

6. Terry was sent an add-pack and asked to sponsor or alter/delete his post. he refused

7. After his refusals to comply with the rules, the concrete evidence that he is a business in this regard and his disrespect to a mod, he was banned.

This is all with the background that Terry also did the same thing about a year ago with a for-profit car show he was doing.

The rules are clear. We gave him multiple chances to fix the violation, and he did not. He was banned.

Now, as for making a product, if you want to sell it on this forum, you need to sponsor the site or at least get the approval of the mods/admins.

THAT IS NOT WITHIN THE RULES!!!!!!!!!

Soliciting sales, via post or PM is AGAINST THE RULES.

I thought this was clear.

Thanks

Brad

 

I have no biz here other than to point out that the above quote couldn't be more a 180 spin from the truth. I moderate other forums, so your question is posed to me. In inemitable MB World style, the rules here seem to be applied to a select few when it is convienient for the admin or mods.

I have had posts and sigs deleted here for the mere mention of "Blanksport" as someone so kindly put it. It was disallowed here FIRST. Never at any time, not now, not before, did we, on any of the sites I mod, ever edit posts or sigs of members for containing the words "MB World", or links to it. We have had members with just the website name with a hotlink to it (here) as their sig and never so much as asked them to change it, let alone change it for them.

Don't ever speak for me or any of the forums I represent to indicate we had anything to do with the twisted policy here. When I pointed out that a simple search on the word "Blanksport" yeilded hundreds of results ... some with links, they were all left alone while all my posts got edited. At some point I have to stop being the nice quiet guy, if only long enough to laugh and point when someone gets deathly ill from a big dose of their own medicine.

I don't have a stake in this whole "MB World vs. kineda" thing. I am only sharing my personal experiences with this site, and that MB World playing the big innocent victim is the biggest crock I ever heard. That comes from me presonally and not any site you may see fit to try to affiliate me with. All I know is that when it came time to apply the TOU to me, it was not applied evenly or fairly, but "at the admins discretion". I will let all draw their own conclusions from there.

I think I'll make a screenshot of this ... just to be safe .

 

Here are the email correspondences as they were.
Unforunately you chose to delete the post where all the evidence lies. So your accusations are just what you think happened.

First e-mail from Adam Winer:

From: Adam Winer
To: Terry Ng
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: MBWorld Advertising

At this time, private Group Buys are not permitted on the forums as they compete directly with our PAYING advertisers who help support this site. If you wish to coordinate a Group Buy (and I'm all for saving money), I suggest you try to coordinate one with the several shops/dealers that sponsor this forum. I'm certain they would be happy to gain your business.


I have attached our advertising agreement in case you are interested in becoming an official MBWorld advertiser.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact our advertising dept. at webmaster@mbworld.org

My response:
From: Terry Ng
To: Adam Winer
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: MBWorld Advertising

What group buy are you referring to? I have no group buy setup.


2nd E-mail - Response from Adam

Looks like you are trying to get something together for your Carbon Fiber kit ?!?!?!

-------
Adam, MBWorld.Org

email: awiner@mbworld.org

My response

https://mbworld.org/forums/sh...10&pagenumber=2

Here's my post about the CF. Read what I posted. No where in the post does it say ANYTHING about selling it. Other's may have asked me details about the kit, but I told them I'm not at liberty to say. I even went out of my way to have people e-mail me for further information as to not violate your advertising rules.

It's like a posting from any member who has new wheels to showoff, or even a new spoiler and then people asking them where they bought it or if they have more info on the product. I see no violation here.

3rd and Final Response from Adam

I will forward these e-mails to Ben since you have already spoken with him. I am sure you will hear from Ben soon.

Regards,

-------

Adam, MBWorld.Org
email: awiner@mbworld.org

 

BANNED:

You are Kineda, LOL

Your IP = 64.172.167.6 (adsl-64-172-167-6.cta.org)
Kineda = 64.172.167.6 (adsl-64-172-167-6.cta.org)

Using an IP search, ONLY you and Kineda have a matching IP.

C'mon.

 

LOL - convenient that you leave out a part of the message. Either you are lying or Terry is not giving you all the info or you are Terry and you are hiding the info!

We have already posted a comment that you left out: "Stop picking on my post." This is totally indicative of the kind of spin-doctoring and lck of honesty going on here!

Here is the REAL text and log:

From: Awiner
To: Terry Ng
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: MBWorld Advertising

At this time, private Group Buys are not permitted on the forums as they compete directly with our PAYING advertisers who help support this site. If you wish to coordinate a Group Buy (and I'm all for saving money), I suggest you try to coordinate one with the several shops/dealers that sponsor this forum. I'm certain they would be happy to gain your business.


I have attached our advertising agreement in case you are interested in becoming an official MBWorld advertiser.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact our advertising dept. at webmaster@mbworld.org

Terry's response:

From: Terry Ng
To: Awiner
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: MBWorld Advertising

What group buy are you referring to? I have no group buy setup.


My response:

Looks like you are trying to get something together for your Carbon Fiber kit ?!?!?!

-------
Adam, MBWorld.Org

email: awiner@mbworld.org

Terry's response:

https://mbworld.org/forums/sh...mp;pagenumber=2

Here's my post about the CF. Read what I posted. No where in the post does it say ANYTHING about selling it. Other's may have asked me details about the kit, but I told them I'm not at liberty to say. I even went out of my way to have people e-mail me for further information as to not violate your advertising rules.

It's like a posting from any member who has new wheels to showoff, or even a new spoiler and then people asking them where they bought it or if they have more info on the product. I see no violation here.

My response:

I emailed him back and told him that soliciting for sale is against out TOU and he would have to become a official advertiser if he wished to do such.

Terry's response:

Soliciting for sale.. Jeez. It's like posting my HRE wheels to showoff and then people asking me if I can get it for them. Or someone posting a new spoiler and then people asking them where they can get it.

I've already talked to Ben and he said even Evosport is interested in selling the kits. Please stop picking on my posts.

My response:

I will forward these e-mails to Ben since you have already spoken with him. I am sure you will hear from Ben soon.

Regards,

-------

Adam, MBWorld.Org
email: awiner@mbworld.org

Funny, you haev one post and are not an admin and know for a FACT!

And who has no credibility? C'mon.

You guys, get real. You can debate it all you want. It was seen by my, most mods/admins and by at least a few others in THIS thread who also saw it (did you read the thread).

Regardless, you can debate this all you want (the reason I opened the thread, so people could vent/debate), but the violation did occur and we called him out on it and he blew us off.

That is the way it works.

Thanks

Brad

 

hey...this is kind of lame right?!

i have a feeling kineda is trying to get his way around all this, in the pm he had with awinner..

is like...since i cant specifically say the price, i will just ask them to email me for it!

everyone in this world know that he is the only 1 with the CF kit right, so whatever information he is going to provide, will ONLY benefit him financially...

i think evo sport handled it wrongly, thats all...and kineda is trying to play around the rules....

look at it all...when kineda ask us to email him...what does that means?? asking us to mold 1 for ourselves?! hell no...he will be selling or "customizing" for us!

just like, if i have a customised engine cover (which i imported it myself..even if i am not a biz, and i have 1000 of these sitting in my garage), if i asked any of u to msg me, it is my intention to sell it right?!


just drop the issue

 

IT is NOT an evosport issue! Awiner does not work for evosport. Nor do any of the mods other then Mach430. Why is this so hard to see?

This is a MBWorld issue.

Thanks

Brad

 

That additional email doesn't change the fact that the post never said he was the sole importer nor that he was violating your sacred TOU. He took things offline and for all you know he was telling everone they're not available.

Changes nothing.

 

ive read his original posts ... and some older posts, and he wasnt trying to sell products

others posted interests in the items he had

i never seen him post pricing

 

sorry..mbworld handled it wrongly..not evosport..


kineda is not selling it directly, but if u did email him, i am pretty sure he will provide the pricing or date of avaliabilty..

 

thanks!

 

Might not, but it shows that you are NOT being truthful about what you are posting!

Thanks

Brad