So unfortunately the timing chain on my 2005 c230 sport with the m271 1.8 kompressor engine skipped a gear or 2 and its crapped out for now. I started to tear the motor down and can see that there is a ton of slack in the chain and that the timing gears both intake and exhaust have the teeth chewed up (mainly the intake gear). I have yet to pull the cylinder head off to see if the valves are screwed but from what i have heard when the chain goes so do the valves and so on. And the car does have 150,000 miles on it and I have only owned it for a month

I have been doing research on the forums from repairing the car to swapping the engine out for something different and just haven't came up with a solid answer for my issue.

So as anyone could expect its going to be expensive to repair and so I've been debating trying to repair the engine or not. After looking up the costs of timing gears and the issues that may be had to the cylinder head I'm leaning towards buying a used engine however I'm also considering an engine swap because I have thought about it before the engine had a heart attack.

So does anyone know of someone that can get a an ecu matched up for an engine swap? I can wire and fabricated whatever need be the only problem I'm facing is the ecu, or is an engine swap for this car a bad idea in general?
Any info is helpful, Thank You!
P.S. this is my first post on this forum

 

The ignition module crossed my mind as well. The cost of two new timing gears is $700 a piece and a timing chain kit is roughly $200. That is $1600 and that's not even including any work that may need to be done to the cylinder head so i was only going to repair it if maybe someone had suggestions on getting cheaper parts. I looked up new engines and found the cost to be anywhere from $850 to $1400+ depending on mileage.

 

What are your real-life budget and time-frame for the repairs??

What experience have you had working on cars/engines (ever do an engine or head r&r before)?

What are you goals/desires/uses for the car?
Daily driver? Toy? Etc?


Fwiw, there are a ton of options.
Imho, not one of them will result in a car worth a ******** unless you spend at least $3,000.


Fwiw#2, no need to worry about the electronics. You're replacing mechanical parts.


Fwiw #3: Buying an used engine would mean that you must replace the timing chain - unless you want another POS ticking time-bomb.


Fwiw#4: The intake valve seats get carbon on them for many reasons. So, unless you put on a rebuilt or new cylinder head, that would mean that you still have a POS ticking time-bomb of an engine.


Fwiw#5: If you want an M271 engine that will last a long time, that's doable.
New/rebuilt head, use dual catch-cans, replace the timing chain every 50K miles, use Mobile/Exxon gas, etc.
Then, imho, you have the typical BS wear items. Imho, not a "big deal" for a DIY person.


Fwiw#6, I went over $5K in parts for my restore/rebuild in a blink of an eye.
But, I'm doing more of a restore/upgrade, verses the "patch the 10+ year old engine/car and wait until next thing to break down, then the next, then the next, then the next, then the next, etc".


Btw, some older pictures of my engine.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ease-help.html



As I've said before, imho, if someone wants a good reliable used car, buy a Camry or Accord with less than 120K miles from a dealer and coming with at least a 3-month/3,000 mile warranty.

 

Imho, I'd bet $5,000 on the Dallas Cowboys winning Superbowl 2017 before I'd bet even $1 on the above really happening or working.

For the people who aren't in America:
Super Bowl 2017
New England Patriots vs Atlanta Falcons
Sunday, February 5, 6:30 PM



If you want to do an engine swap, buy a 60s/70s/80s/90s Mustang or Camaro.

 

Sorry to hear about your car. Seems like an engine swap would be the quickest/cheapest route. Replace the chain on the replacement motor before you install it. I just pulled the cover off of my 05 C230 with 112K miles to inspect the chain and to my surprise it's still tight, no slack, and gears teeth are in great shape. Just like you I've only owned the car since December so I had to inspect and see for myself before it's too late.

 

HAHAHAHA on the cowboys winning the superbowl! I understood before buying the car that an engine swap would be a pain but I did see a member that had done it with an m112 supercharged 3.2.

As far as my knowledge and experience with cars, I'd say I'm pretty well rounded. I might spend more time in my garage than anywhere else. I have done engine swaps before and I supercharged a car I previously owned but mostly I'm just repairing cars because modifying is pricey. Plus I'm currently in school for electrical engineering so wiring doesn't scare me.

What I'd like to get out of my car... well I love the car and I've been dreaming of taking off the supercharger and putting on a turbo instead and then cranking up the boost as much as possible but I am just getting familiar with these engines and so far it's not looking good. My previous car of 2 years was a crossfire so I am more familiar with the m112's.

The only reason I thought about doing an engine swap was to avoid all these problems with the m271 but I think I'm really leaning towards a stock engine replacement. I found one online for a good price. It does have 100k miles on it but I could go ahead and replace the timing chain like advised. And no matter what the idea of a turbo swap will always be in my mind! So if anyone knows of someone that can tune these engines i can make it happen lol

 

Fwiw, it's your car, your money.

The POS pathetic M271 timing chain has multiple different failure modes - like all timing chains.

The chain stretching is one failure mode.
The chain breaking is another failure mode. And, the chain can break for multiple reasons.

IF the chain breaks, imho, the M271 engine is likely a boat anchor. Yea, it "could" be fixed with new gears and/or head.
Then, who knows how long the lifters, cam, can bearings, rod bearings, piston rings, etc would last after they had metal particles **********ing up every surface inside the engine?
People take chances. Sometimes they are lucky. In real life, most people get screwed.


On a forum, someone will post "I did xyz and the engine runs (or whatever) fine".
Hmm, you don't seem to see those people posting after 5years or 30K miles, about how their questionable repair is still doing awesome.


Imho, the M271 timing chain is a replace every 50K miles item.
Use Mobile/Exxon gas (it has good detergent properties).
Use Techron gas treatment.
Use Mobile 1 oil (Euro Formula for Benz).
And, imho, install a good dual oil catch can system.
(The last 4 are all to reduce/prevent carbon build up on the intake valve seats. Fwiw, non of the above is rocket science. It's been well known and followed advice in the supercharged/turbocharged gear head community for many years.)


Btw, when the M271 gets carbon buildup on the valve seats, and super minor misfire happens. And, the Benz shuts down that cylinder and/or others. So, the car is not drive-able (other than a crawl off the road). For an M271, that means running NASTY seafoam into the engine and praying to your favorite automotive deity. Or, an ~$7K+ for a cylinder head change by a mechanic.

That's my advice.

 

Woah! $7k+ for a cylinder head. I know it's a Mercedes but dang for that money I want a custom CNC built head with the best cfm flow possible. I called around today and got a quote for rebuilding the head for $500+
And when I bought my benz it had a couple misfires but it never shut down cylinders..? I replaced the plugs and coils and went on my merry way ....until the timing chain pooped out of course
By the way, after tearing the thing down the carbon build up on the intake ports isn't that bad at 150k with no oil catch can and can be easily cleaned off the intake ports (don't know about exhaust yet). However the amount of oil throughout the whole intake system from the filter to the cylinder head is no joke! Oil catch can is a must!

 

Cool, another soon-to-be Sparky.
What year are you in for EE? What area are you concentrating in? Have you had many Control Theory courses yet?

I'm Electrical, Mechanical & Computer. I do a lot of different stuff. It often involves all three disciplines.

Imho, forget about putting a turbo on an M271 engine. This isn't a Fox Stang with an A9L EEC-IV where the source code "is out there on the web".

Good luck finding anyone in America that can put an M271 car on a dyno and also fully tune the engine.

As I understand, many of the the tools and products that used to exist for the M271 engine are no longer available.

You can get a mail-order tune for an M271. But, it does have it's limitations.

I assume you've read the M271 engine "faq" thread. Tons of good info in there.
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/engin...d-updated.html



As for going with a turbo in place of the supercharger ....
NO!!!!
The supercharger is one of the big reasons I bought my car. Yea, it's not much of a supercharger.
But, it is a supercharger.
It's not a .... wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it,
turbocharger.
Turbo's are better for gas mileage. Superchargers are better for response.


Fwiw, I'm not driving my C230K because of the gas mileage, nor for the horse power, nor for handling.
However, with upgrades, my 2005 C230K can just make it into the "Sports Car" territory. Fwiw, some reviews said that the sporty M271 C230K didn't even deserve being listed in the "sporty car" territory - ouch!
Fwiw, I bought a brand new supercharger, and then sent it to Stiegemeier to be professionally ported.

Also, as I've said before:
Imho, Scarlett Johansson is barely an 8 out of 10 compared to my super mega sexy 2005 Red Coupe C230K.
(For non Americans: Scarlett Johansson was named 2016's Highest Grossing Actor. She's also often rated as the top, or near the top, as the sexiest female.)




Yes, replace the timing chain.
However, read my post above regarding carbon build up on the intake valve seats.

Since you've worked on engines before, check out the inside of the intake manifold and the intake ports on the cylinder heads.
Like oil? OUCH!
The M271 does have a "self draining" oil catch-can in the valve cover.
However, imho, it's not nearly up to the task for an American M271 engine with the significantly higher boost.

Even just getting a decent head rebuilt, or have the valves lapped, would properly require new head bolts, gasket, special silicon sealant, etc. Plus, you need an accurate low valve torque wrench for the head bolts and for the thermoplastic intake.
The head bolts are torqued to a low value, then they are angle torqued.

I ended up going with a digital torque wrench. AC Delco makes digital torque wrenches, with smaller min/max ranges, that are reasonably priced and also very accurate.
Yea, AC Delco torque wrenches - WTF?




You'll also need a number of torx, and e-torx sockets and hopefully wrenches. All of that adds up.

 

Did you get an DTC?
As I understand, MB has shut down cylinders when a misfire is detected for a long time.

My car had a pending cylinder misfire when I bought it. After I got it registered, I drove it 100+ miles to work. It drove great!
Then, I put Gulf gas in it, and drove it home.
After that, the codes would show pending misfire for ~4 mins - then right to a DTC with a check engine light and shutting off the miss-firing cylinder. Then, the engine would barley run.

When I talked to some MB people at work, they said that MB has had their electronic fuel injection systems do that for a very long time (since at least the 90s).


Yes, get the head rebuilt!
Imho, the new head bolts are another cost to look at. These are the typical Torque-To-Yield (TTY) head bolts that are used on Aluminum heads and blocks. Using TTY head bolts again is a massive risk!


Fwiw, you can appreciate this - after the proper 45nm force, the head bolts stretch for the next 180 degrees of turns.
If you do the math, and look at the MB specs, you'll see the difference between a new and a used head bolt is very close to 270 degrees x the thread pitch.

The dealer charges ~$200+/hr for labor. They will only put on a new head. They use MB parts at full cost. And so on.

 

FYI:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Inf...BZ&SVSVSI=3528

Cylinder Head Bolt
Part #: 271-016-03-69-MBZ
$15.00

$15 X 10 == $150.


Link to engine parts for an 2005 M271 C230K:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...528-Engine.htm

 

Thank you for the info! I currently have a new engine on the way and a new timing chain with guides to match. I'm going to try and avoid taking the head off for now since the motor I'm buying has a guarantee to be in good working order.

I'm actually a EET, sorry i forgot the technology but that's just because I have a desire to work more hands on. I also spent two semesters for a dual major in Motorsports and Mechanical engineering (long story lol). I'm hoping I can apply what I learn in school to cars but it's still early for me.

I also was talking to a friend that is big into tuning cars that is currently working on a his single turbo supra and he has a lot of connections and told me that he knows someone that could custom dyno tune my car! It may be a long shot for now but I'm going to look more into it in case one day I get tempted to take the project on!
For the time being though I just need to get this thing back on the road.

 

And as far as the a the misfires that my car had, I had a check engine light for misfires on two of the cylinders and it never did anything past that. I actually couldn't really notice that anything was wrong. After I replaced them it did seem to pick up a little more power but that could have just been placebo.

 

I've posted a ton of info about the M271. One day, I'll do my own M271 faq/repair thread. But, don't hold your breath.

A few things:
Read what I wrote above to reduce carbon build-up on the valve seats.

The MB and IWIS timing chains are likely the same. I bought both. I got the MB directly from a NYC MB dealer. So, I know it's a real MB chain, not a fake. The MB timing chain comes with a bag marked IWIS for the free-link. The chains look and feel exactly the same. Neither I, nor anyone outside of IWIS/MB, can say the chains are EXACTLY the same. In fact, they likely are not. The MB likely goes through additional checks.
It also can not be said that the chains use the EXACT same metal or have the EXACT same tolerances. I know about real-life manufacturing, OEMs, very well.
Still, imho, for someone on a budget and that will change the timing chains every 50K miles, the IWIS chain is a good bet.
Fwiw, *I* do not bet with my cars or an expensive engine. I have too much gear-head experience, and too much mechanical and manufacturing knowledge.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ing-chain.html


Use a timing chain link tool! You can get them from ebay for ~$100. I posted about the one that I bought, and that I feel good about recommending. Not using the tool is a sure fire way to have a weak spot on the chain. And, you know what happens when these POS under-designed chains break.

Use at least a cheap dual catch-can system.

Clean out the intake ports on the new head. Use acetone/MEK. Use sponge, sponge bottle cleaner, paper towels, whatever.

Clean out the intake with Simple Green or Lestoil. It'll take a few washings.

Make sure that the clutch on your alternator pulley is good. The clutch pulleys reduce the pulsation in the serpentine belt, which reduces the pulsation on the crank pulley, which reduces the the pulsation on the timing chain.
So, a bad clutch pulley on the alternator will put additional strain on the POS under-designed timing chain!


Good Luck!

 

Thank you to all who gave me some very helpful advise on making my decision on what to do with my c230's timing chain fiasco!

So update on my venture in trying to repair my c230. I got my "new" engine in and am currently in the process of trying to replace the timing chain and have hit a bit of a road block. I am having troubles getting the front timing cover off. I took all the bolts on the front of the cover off and all the ones that are on the bottom through the oil pan however it is not coming off and I think I can see why. There are two bolts that through where the timing gears are and they look like that are holding the the front cover on but they look nearly impossible to get a socket over them. Is there a trick to getting the cover off or something I am missing?

Also the end of the exhaust side timing gear snapped off which sucks but it is not the end of the world as I can pull the vvt unit off my old engine and swap the gears. I found instructions on how to replace the gears but I cannot find how to take the whole timing gear unit off the camshaft. Does anyone know of how to get the timing gears off of the camshaft?

 

.

As for the cam:






Also, reference a part by the correct name and with a diagram:
https://parts.rbmofatlanta.com/auto-...at/engine-scat


As for the front cover, other people have posted about that. People have suggested using a bolt and washers to remove those two buried guide pins - instead of buying and using the custom tool.
There are two buried guide pins. One on each side of the engine.

So, I used a bolt and washers, as others suggested. It was easy, and it worked out fine!




Here is also a very good thread on how to do the timing chain:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...chain-diy.html


.

 

I'm sorry I keep forgetting to take pics.

I have been on that link that you sent me for the replacing of the timing chain before however I'm doing it differently than the person on that thread. He/she didn't take off the whole front timing cover and used a chain with a master link but I got a chain that is connected throughout. Since the engines out of the car and I shouldn't need that special tool.

I think I have all the info I need to get the timing cover off.
As for the timing gear, I am more confused. This pic isn't actually of my car but it's exactly the same. Like on this one the exhaust timing gear is sorta broken. On this pic you can see at the front of the timing unit that the piece at the very front of the exhaust side valve timing unit has been broken off and is missing.

That same thing happened to me so I was going to pull the one off my old engine however I can't seem to figure out how the unit comes off and I'm afraid to start cranking on that nut in front of the gear in fear of breaking something. Is there a trick to getting that off?

 

That broken off piece is part of the gear assembly. It is used for the timing/offset adjustment solenoid.

To replace the timing gear, see the attached file.


You already personally know what happens when the OEM MB POS under-designed timing chain breaks. And, you're putting on a timing chain that is an even bigger POS cheap cr*p timing chain?

If the POS MB/IWIS timing chain is good for ~50K miles.
Then, how long is that bigger cheaper POS timing chain good for, before you're within ~2sigma of typical life?

It's your car, your engine, your time, and your money.

As for that timing chain, and how long it will last.....



.

 

Thanks for the instructions on the timing gear that! That should get it done.

I don't know about the chain I'm using except it was a Febi Bilstein and it was a suggested by a few people so I went with it.

 

That would make owning any M271 car cost prohibitive as most people can't do their own work and quotes for chain replacement are $2000+

My 2005 C230K was at 146,000 miles when I got rid of it. It had a little chain noise, but had never had any real mechanical issues at that point. Some people here have very high mileage, 200-300k without issue. Some don't make it to 100k before the chain stretches and a new engine is needed. Seems to be luck of the draw.