chuckd94

Answer:
1994 Mustang GT. That thing was a slug compared to the 1987-1993 5.0.

I am SO GLAD I orded my car already! :p

BlackC230Coupe

i bought my car there 2

pixmation

what am I gonna do? I don't want the less powered 1.8 engine...

young

i agree... those would have been good reasons for me to wait.


the problem w/ this statement is that most people won't tune the engine anyway. for various reasons. my hesitation is the warranty issue.

the other thing is that it seems that many people on this forum got the c230k b/c they found it to be sporty. lose some power, and the car is not so attractive.

Mike T.

It's not really a problem with the statement (the tuning possibilities of the old engine will likely exceed those of the new one), which I believe to be correct.

But you're right, most people (including me) would not be tempted to modify it anyway because 192 HP is enough for most people and factory warranty is nice to have.

Also, there is the important matter of engineering redundancy. Is there as much of a safety margin in the new engine's design as there was in the old one? This is important whether the engine is modified or not.

How many HP per litre can be safely extracted from this new all aluminium engine? It's at 107 DIN HP per L. That's high already (the 2.3 is only at 86 DIN HP/L). A 2.3 with the same specific power as the 1.8 would have 246 DIN HP.

In summary, I like the 2.3 better (being "old school" Mercedes design), but i'm fairly confident that the new 1.8 will be an adequate engine too.

Funny, with this engine change so soon into the model cycle, the usual precaution of buying the second year's production "because all the bugs have been worked out" does not apply, for the engine at least

young

right. i meant w/ the implication of that statement... that b/c it is more tuneable, it is a good thing when it really doesn't matter for most people.

i also like how bulletproof the 2.3L engine is. mbtech thinks it is a great engine in terms of reliability.

Spyke

This isn't a direct comparison/answer, but if we step on out of the car market and take a look at bikes we'll see naturally aspirated, 600cc bikes putting out over 100hp at the crank, all day, every day, box stock, with a factory warranty. 190hp out of a 1.8L supercharged engine isn't exactly rocket science.

My car's going to be a 2.3 liter (Supposedly cleared customs on Tuesday, should be here very soon. Woo hoo!) and I'm not so sure which engine I'd prefer. I do NVH work for a living so I get bothered by things that don't sound so nice... a little more refinement may be a good thing (but since i haven' got my car yet, i'm not sure if anything about it will bother me...)

Whatever. I'm just happy my car's on it's way!!!!

Mike T.

Yeah, I'm well aware of the almost miraculous specific power ratings of some motorcycle and outboard boat engines.

I haven't followed motorbiking much recently, but in the 1970s the Japanese bikes with BIG power seemed to wear out after 25,000-35,000 miles - only BMW flat twins were reputed to last as long as a typical car engine, well over 100,000 miles.

I don't know if Japanese metallurgy has advanced to the point where an engine putting out 160+ HP per litre can last the equivalent of a modern car engine (say 200,000 miles). So how long are those "crotch rocket" powertrain warranties these days, anyway? 5 years/75,000 miles? I doubt it

I suppose the point is moot, because people that will stoke a C 230 K 1.8 L engine up to 300+ HP are unlikely to be owners for the long haul anyway.

And as Young and I wrote above, for us 192 SAE HP from the 2.3 L engine is more than enough. I'm in this for the long haul; my present car has 162,000+ miles on it and I think it's EASILY got another 100,000+ left in the original engine. Oh, and it only makes 58 HP per litre...

galaxygrrl

Your case should be over by the end of June, just say your want a 2002 as part of your seattlement. Viper said 2003 won't be hitting our shores until Aug.

I'm filing my case next week if all goes as planned, and I assue the case will be over mid July, and that is my plan.

Beth

avlis

Not if the 1.8 turns out to be quieter, smoother, and more efficient. Remember NVH has a lot to do with buyer's decisions. The majority of people that buy this car are NOT interested in street racing and mods. If they got rid of that "diesel" start-up noise and "VW Bug" sound with the 1.8, we're all screwed.

How much wieght is saved with the new 1.8 engines? Is it enough to compensate for the lower torque?

I hope I'm wrong but, I won't be surprised if the 2.3 goes down in history as being the "boat-anchor" of the MB 4 cylinders. Again, I hope I'm wrong....

$1800 for AWD? More money in MB's pocket...

Spyke

In the case of Ducati (yeah, I'm a Euro-bike snob, not too familiar with the details on the Japanese stuff) the latest I saw was 2 years, unlimited mileage. I've never heard of anyone wearing out a Japanese bike engine if it's taken care of properly, and I have heard of the odd 100k mile sportbike out there (but most guys sell them LONG before that to buy the latest and greatest; three years is an eternity in the land of top-dog sportbikes)

Anyway, I'd venture a guess that most sportbikes die from crash damage or some other component failure before they wear the engine out!

I think you're right about the hot rodders not being long term owners...

BUKOWSKI

I'm nervous about the whole C Class now. I've only been looking into this website for a week now, but you all know your stuff well, obviously, and you're all wondering just as much as me and the wife.

We've got a local dealer saying new engines are coming, and we could only order 1 of 2 2002 models left, via their European Delivery.?

Another dealer isn't sure how our local dealer can even say that
&
He's offering us any of his 6 new 2002s at "a matched DEMO price from any dealer around."

The deal sounds good one minute, dead-ended the next. One model engine is being discontinued, one a first-year issue grandpa always advised me to avoid.?!@# Uhh!

What would you all do if you didn't already own the C230 and were looking today.

I feel like maybe we should wait until 2004; maybe strike a deal on leasing a 2002 cheap in the meantime. Suggestions very welcome, all!

Mike T.

I'd say you should do whatever feels right...if you want one and can only get a 2003, go ahead.

The worst case scenario is the new engine is a beta version and it'll need all kinds of warranty work. So what, it'd be put right after a while under warranty. The new 1.8 is a VERY important engine for Mercedes (especially in Europe) so they have likely got it right.

About sportbikes, yes, Ducati 996, very nice. I swear that Japanese crotch rockets in the 1970s were not long-lived though. The other thing is that the 150+ HP/L specific power rating of some sportbikes can't really be compared to cars, 'cause the cars have to haul around a lot more mass (the power to weight ratio is way poorer) meaning the car engine is under a lot more stress. I'd guess that around 100 HP/L would be the approximate "safe" limit for most car engines, giving 200,000 miles plus longevity (without resorting to exotic construction/materials).

MagmaSilk

here's the info on the next slk due for '04 ...

looks like there 1.8 4 has only 163bhp but the 2.0 4 has 193 ...




http://www.mbslk.de/r171.htm

avlis

I'd probably wait. But I'm a procrastinator by nature anyway. I shopped around for about 3 years before buying my car. If I had known last Sept. that I’d be car pooling with my wife this year, I would have canceled the order and kept my paid-off truck until one of us changed jobs. Now we have two car payments, but we only drive one car most of the time. If you NEED a new car NOW, you have no choice- buy one now. If you can wait, wait.

If the 1.8 proves out to be a dog maybe you could find a slightly used 2.3, though it will take more effort than just going to the dealer and placing an order.

It’s too early to tell what will happen for MY2003. Everything you read here regarding MY2003 changes is speculation until MB officially releases some info to the public. Dealers are left in the dark just like the rest of us. All we know for sure is there will probably be a new 4cyl in the US.

Some (troll?) had posted a list of MY2003 changes here a while ago that read like a 2002 coupe owner’s wish list. A few of us fell for it. Don’t believe everything you read. Wait and see what plays out.

young

you mean viper? he posted all the little changes in flashman's faq (i think it was him). like the rear wiper, moved window controls, etc.

and carpooling w/ your wife... that's the best parts of the day, right? right?? (the answer had better be yes...)

i didn't wait b/c of 9/11. why wait 6 months for a car i'm going to own for 3-4 years? new & better ones are coming out every year. carpe diem.

avlis

I don't remember the original poster. Whoever it was probably got bogus info. Nothing against them (unless it WAS a troll). If it turns out to be true, I'll take a walk of shame.

About the carpool: I had to "ease" into it. Every-other-day to start. Now we're up to 4 days/week. My solo commute used to be the only time where I could talk to myself and play my music loud without embarassment, so carpooling was a bit of a shock to my system. We save about $100/month in gas plus reduced wear on the cars.

jagiboy

Here is some info I got from My Bro...

He said he sees 2 models C230 1.8K and C230 1.8M..for 2003
and he can see the prices only when MB starts Production.

pixmation

but if they don't have the combo that I want by end of May, and they start building 2003 1.8 im June. BTW, what's the problem with yours?

galaxygrrl

Here are the points to remember:

-- Viper said that the 1.8s wont be hitting out shores until August.

-- I would be suprised if they don't want to make you a car, but rather find one pre-made.

-- MB has a whole nation full of cars to search for your combo. MB ships cars everyday nationwide. It's what they do.

-- And finally and most importantly, MB would be thrilled to give you a 2002 as opposed to a 2003 and any dealer would be happy to trade the 2002 for 2003 with MB.

But, you might need to compromise on color or something. Sorry.

I would like a Capri Blue one and that is not going to happen, so I know how you feel.

I have a seatbelt issue that will not go away.

Are you working with Bill McGee's office?

viper

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by avlis
Some (troll?) had posted a list of MY2003 changes here a while ago that read like a 2002 coupe owner’s wish list. A few of us fell for it. Don’t believe everything you read. Wait and see what plays out.


Hey Avlis ... get your walkin boots ready. The list I published some months ago was derived from a parts procurement manifest released in January. Most of those things are slated for production. However it can be amended at any time depending on a lot of things. Its called model year changeover.

gab

i like the c coupe in lemon yellow! it looks good and looks much much better than orion blue!

avlis

A what?

Says who? And why are you the only one that knows about them?

Translation: Don't count your chickens before they hatch!

Scylas

dont mess with the Orion Blue crowd....


PS: My coupe is Orion Blue... =p

viper

Hey Avlis,

I'm not gonna waste my time justifying anything to you. The list was the proposed changes for 2003. Contrary to anything on this board the final options packages for all models has NOT been finalized. All options are not available in all regions. But you know this already right ? The final tally of parts required to cover all regions has been tendered to suppliers and final decisions have not been made. The dealers only have preliminary information now. I will assume that you know what preliminary means. If not look it up.