jungleboy

Hello,

I'm in the market for a c230. I'm pleased that a company of this stature would offer a model with quality cloth seating in the American market. Not everyone wants to sit on a cow. I wanted to start this discussion about the pros and cons of cloths and leather material in the new coupe. Owners out there: could you give us your impressions?

Thanks.

tommy

The biggest pro is that there is no additional wait time. I don't know if you've talked to a local dealer about the leather, but I think that you'll have to wait on the leather, especially since there was probably a backlog of leather orders already. That would be the first batch of research that I would do.
It's also very comfortable and durable, and I'd guess that it'll hold up much better than the leather.
I didn't get leather, mostly for the fact that they weren't making any when I ordered mine. I couldn't wait for it, and if I could have, I probably would have waited a little longer for a Mini. Additionally, I wasn't too keen on either color option.

Many people will tell you that the pattern is ugly. I won't go that far - I'll say "interesting". I have the gray color - the oyster will stain more easily, I'd hazard a guess.

Now, having said all of that, I'll say that if you are indifferent, and want all that's in the c5 package anyway, you might as well get the leather, as you'll save a little money on the package. Resale value will probably do much better on leather-equipped cars as well. Now for the total hypocrate angle: I'm probably going to add leather aftermarket, but I'll get it in a color that I like.

All told, if you like cloth seating, this is the best that I've ever dealt with; it's really high quality.

Sorry about the MB-BOB length of this post.

Big Dog

Have cloth seats in mine for the same reason as Tommy. Agree with everything he said. If your not in a rush, I would wait for the leather particularly due to resale. However, quality of the cloth seats is definitely superior to other manufacturers.

MB-BOB

Cloth Pros:
1) Cooler in Summer
2) Warmer in Winter
3) Potentially more durable
4) Softer than the Leather (MB leather is traditionally "firm")
5) Quieter (moving around on leather makes "squeeky" noises. Also, cloth disguises farts better, right tommy "the Chalupa?"

Cloth Cons:
1) Love it or hate it design (Darker is less noticeable... a plain cloth design would be preferable, IMO)
2) Resale value WILL suffer (All other MBs have leather/MB-Tex)
3) Some have reported problems with staining
4) IMO, the car overall looks classier with leather (and C7)

My advice: order the C5 package (save a few bucks) and patiently wait for delivery. Added benefit is that MB will have the early production bugs out of the Coupe by your delivery date, too.

MarkL

I'm wondering who has ever had leather, and then buys cloth next time. I've had leather in all my cars since 1985 (7 cars), and I'll never buy cloth again. Just for starters, leather gives just about every car an upscale look. I have a C240 w/ the standard interior, and I've seen C230's in cloth and leather. I think the leather interior in the C230 blows the cloth away -- looks more like a CLK. When you sell, cloth will definitely be a detriment.

As far as durability, I've never had a problem with leather. IMO, it holds up much better than most cloth interiors which can begin looking worn after a while. Unless you puncture it with something, a quality leather should give years of service with minor cleaning. As for being hotter in summer, you'll get used to it :-). And in winter, just get the heated seats and you'll be fine!! (Anyway, the MB warms up and provides heat within 2 minutes, so it's really no big deal).

My vote is go with the leather and don't worry about it. You'll never regret having leather, but if you don't get it, I bet you'll think about having cloth all the time. From what I've read, production is already starting so the delay is probably a moot point by now.

Buellwinkle

MB-Bob, you may be right on some things but not on this one. The better resale value (or return on investment, ROI) has always gone to cars without leather. Take a 5 year old C230K for example. Based on KBB.com, leather adds a whopping $390 to the trade-in price. Consider that the person paid 1,400 + tax + financing costs for that feature, it has a terrible ROI. I think leather is the number one detractant in a used car. On a few year old car the leather is wrinkled and usually has imbedded dirt that makes the interior look older than it is. Most people don't take the proper care of their leather and that's how it ends up that way. The advantage on the base C240/C320 is that only the center is leather making it look better longer.


One big Pro you didn't mention was that leather can be slippery and is not as safe to drive as cloth.

DrMike

For my on order 230, I tried to save the $1400 leater seating premium, but was summarily overruled by the fashion police (wife and 16 yr old daughter) who rejected the "interesting" pattern as aesthetically offensive to their taste. The charcoal cloth would have suited me fine, fashion dweeb that I am. However, you might heed the resale issues, since the cloth is definately something that will evoke strong opinions in some, whereas the leather will be acceptable to most.

There is the wait factor, but I was able to order a few weeks ago for a December build, Jan delivery, with a discount from MSRP. We also went for the C5 option, which gives you the Bose for about $300.

jungleboy

Thanks so much. Your advice is well taken. MB-BOB, what production bugs are you referring to?

Can't wait to check out both options in front of my own eyes.

Thanks again!!

Flashman

I doubt cloth would lower the resale value of the C230. Since cloth is standard, it will probably have no effect on resale. Leather would be a plus, but no resale increase will ever meet new cost.

I've noticed that most people who were previous BMW/Mercedes owners and lived with leather everywhere hate the cloth. Most people whose previous car was cloth really like it (as it is nicer/tighter cloth that just about everything out there).

I was totally comfortable ordering the charcoal cloth. I actually LIKED the pattern. But since I could afford leather and I like it, I ordered it as part of the C5 Premium package.

Rick

DrMike

My real favorite is the MB-Tex. Had that in palomino on my 300TD and it still looked great 12 years later. Too bad they dont use that instead of the cloth.

MB-BOB

For the record, I don't mind the cloth, myself, but you'd have to find a like-minded individual to sell it to when you dispose. Right or wrong, most people shopping for a used Benz expect leather, because it (or MB-Tex) comes on virtually all the other MB models.

As for bugs, there were several ramp-up quality isues with the early production sedans, and I would expect similar with the Coupe. Others with Coupes can share. Nothing dis-qualifying, in my view, but all cars in their first year of production have initial issues with bugs. My 2001 sedan, (made in Apr. 2001) did not have any of the sedan's earlier problems, so I think MB is pretty quick to hop on any major probs.

young

here are my 2 cents:

good points
(some) leather is really nice like MBs (unlike BMWs). and it looks beautiful.
i think most people like leather so it may help your resale (not necessarily the value, just that the buyer may want leather).

bad points
living in SoCal w/ leather sucked. wearing shorts and a t-shirt and sitting on leather that had been in the sun was not a good thing. living in cold weather was bad too (unless you get heated seats).
i don't like sitting on skin either even though i am not a cow-hugger.
i think the aethetics of leather is better but if MB had just put out a non-patterned cloth, i would've been very happy. similarly, i don't like the aluminum trim pattern either. the cloth in the lighter color works a lot better, i think, b/c the pattern is more muted.
leather/wood interiors bespeaks a sense of timeless luxury that i don't really care for. i'd rather have cloth/aluminum - faster/newer/young-er. i'm hoping to have an electric car by 2005.

in a way, my design sensibilities are to reject leather & wood inside the car (unless it is an old classic car). the use of those materials seem a bit archaic to me. i mean, we don't use wooden wheels anymore either. and of course, many people complain about plastic - but i like it, as it is an appropriate material for modern cars. plastics are a fantastic material - widely diverse. what's the dash made of? its probably a plastic. if the new SL500 has a non-leather, non-wood interior, i would take it!

here's another way of looking at it. you have glass, aluminum, steel, plastic, more plastic, velour (which i can't stand), leather, wood, probably some other material that i missed, and even more plastic inside the car. to me, the leather and wood are incongruent materials w/ the rest of the car. its like using cedar shingles on a skyscraper.

in conclusion, although i respect the looks of MB leather, its not for me. the only leather i would buy would be a motorcycle jacket (it can save your life) although i don't have one.

also, i don't know what MB-Tex is. is it like leatherette in the bmw? at first, i thought you were making a joke - its cloth from Texas - i.e. leather.

hey, disclaimer - you should get what you like. my opinion is not prescriptive. but you know that already, right?

tommy

Consumer Reports did a test on flatulence inside the c230. They found that, while initially the sound was louder with the leather, they found that the aroma did not leave as quickly with the cloth. So, their result was a toss-up.

They also attempted a hairpin turn at 120mph, and found that the car rolled over. Therefore they put a "do not recommend" on their review.

I agree with what young just said - it may not contribute to a better price on resale, but I'd think that it would be easier to unload a c230 with leather than with cloth, because of buyer expectations.

MarkL

Everyone's got their opinion, and I've got mine. I'm not sure looking at the ROI numbers tells the whole story. If certain cars don't have certain options, some people won't even consider buying the car. For example, sunroofs are becoming the norm on a lot of cars. I don't care what it costs, or what the resale value might be, I'll bet you find less than 1/2 the buyers for certain cars if you don't have the roof. I believe the same goes for leather interiors. First of all, I prefer leather and that's why I get it. But, if someone is unsure whether they should get it, I would wager that many prospective buyers of a used MB (which already lowers the price into their range), wouldn't consider cloth, just IMO. Once they see another used C230 with leather, they won't look at a cloth model, especially if you say that the trade-in value is very close. The question becomes how long are you planning to keep your C230, and do you want to be able to sell it when you want a new car?

MARK CUMMINS

Leather is good for looks/smell but if you want the best for wear/tear the cloth will work best ...We have had cloth on the last three mercedes a G wagon,a ml,and now the c coupe and its great cause we have dogs (ROTTWEILERS) and they WILL scratch leather prevs.experience to each his own. Thats why M.B. offers the cloth.

Rick

hmmm....
Sounds like Dr. Mike's wife and daughter were co-conspiring to get the car the DAUGHTER wants to drive.

All joking aside, I bought into the C5 option package. When I sat down to review the options with an unknowing sales -ahem- consultant, I was looking to get C2, C4, Bose and charcoal cloth (C7 wasn't on the books in April '01). With 3 of the four components of the C5 already on the build list, I continued looking and found what at that time was called the "premium option package" (later dubbed C5)...and decided that leather would be nice, especially with heated seats(C4).

Now that I have it, I'm glad I decided on it.

After test driving several cars with cloth, I couldn't get away from the thought that the cloth just didn't FEEL right. The pattern really didn't bother me...but the texture of the seat was too much like sanded courduroy. I had uglier seats in my Talon...but at least the fabric was decent.

Iceman's C230

I think it comes down to your preference. I got mine without leather. My stang had leather seats and it was not great at summers. And in winters it was like sitting on a ice cube. I like the look of both. But for resale value i would go with leather. It will sell quicker than cloth.

vinmanc32

I have watched a number of posts and dont think that leather is less durable than cloth. If you take care of the leather, which is very easy these days, then leather will last indefinately. Cloth tends to wear over time whether or not you care for it. I agree with the cold in the winter, warm in the sun of summer, but get heated seats and call it a day. The summer burn is worth the gorgeous look and smell of leather.:p

This excludes the rottys... dogs are not good with leather

Buellwinkle

MarkL,

My C230 is my fourth Benz and third without leather. The toughest Benz to sell was the one with leather. After months of trying to sell it I ended up taking it back to were I bought it. I think there's a percentage of people that don't want leather and an even smaller percentage of Benzes without leather. I think the cloth is an asset.

The C230 as well as many cars with leather look richer, more elegant and stylish, thats not what I wanted in any car. I'm not going to suffer in discomfort for the sake of style. I don't wear wool suits even if they look best, I don't wear fancy uncomfortable shoes just because they look good and I don't wear a tie to work just because it looks best. You are right, it's not about ROI, it's about what you want and believe it or not, some people don't want leather at any price. Hard to believe, huh!

MarkL

I was thinking about my post yesterday, and I realized I am looking at it from my own point of view. I live in Maryland, where we may have milder summers than CA, and I usually get a light interior so I've gotten used to the sometimes hot seats. Actually, I keep a soft cloth under my seat for times when I'm wearing shorts and might sweat :p -- also comes in handy when it rains and some gets on the doors etc. after getting in. To me, I find the leather more comfortable. Some cloth seats (mostly the velour type) make you feel like you're "locked in" when you sit on them. A leather seat with appropriate bolstering lets you move around a little easier (although some people may complain that they don't hold you in place). There really is no "right" answer I guess. Personally I just like the feel and look of leather. I found it interesting the other day when someone (I forget who) wrote that they hated leather and wood -- to each his own, as they say. When selling a car, I think it depends a bit on what the person looking at it is familiar with. To me, most higher end cars usually have leather, so in my mind, a lot of people looking at MB's expect leather. Though, the C230 may also attract buyers who are more familiar with other sporty coupes, many of which have cloth. So, I agree that you should have what makes you feel most comfortable while you own the car.