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Frank's C32 Obsidian Obsession
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
Likes: 18
From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
update:
pre-PSS9 (post-control arms with TEIN SS) car track straight. post-PSS9 car pulls to the right. I know I need a alignment, but manually measuring etc with the steering wheel straight both front seems to be "pretty straight".
I have to hold the steering slightly left to go straight, but what is funky is that when I let go of the steering wheel the steering wheel will center itself, but the car will pull to the right.
IF it is just the steering that is off-center I would think that the steering will hold at the angle that I let go of, right?
so if the steering would correct itself to the center when I let go and the car pulls to the right, what exactly can be off to cause this? too much toe on the left side? too little toe on the right side?
opinions and ideas would be welcome. control arms and tie rods are new. end links are fairly new although I'm not sure if the driver side is tighten enough (haven't check). PSS9 were re-valved recent so that can't be the problem. The TEIN SS does give the front a little more camber, so that maybe the reason it was able to negate the off-toe angle issue?
pre-PSS9 (post-control arms with TEIN SS) car track straight. post-PSS9 car pulls to the right. I know I need a alignment, but manually measuring etc with the steering wheel straight both front seems to be "pretty straight".
I have to hold the steering slightly left to go straight, but what is funky is that when I let go of the steering wheel the steering wheel will center itself, but the car will pull to the right.
IF it is just the steering that is off-center I would think that the steering will hold at the angle that I let go of, right?
so if the steering would correct itself to the center when I let go and the car pulls to the right, what exactly can be off to cause this? too much toe on the left side? too little toe on the right side?
opinions and ideas would be welcome. control arms and tie rods are new. end links are fairly new although I'm not sure if the driver side is tighten enough (haven't check). PSS9 were re-valved recent so that can't be the problem. The TEIN SS does give the front a little more camber, so that maybe the reason it was able to negate the off-toe angle issue?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Camas, WA
2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
Frank, now your car is perfect 
18" LM Champions FTW!
As for your pull to the right, that can be caused by a lot of things. Toe, is definitely the 1st thing to check. But, caster, camber, and even setback can be an issue, as well as ride height. Do you have the camber/caster bolts installed? If so, you should adjust caster to 1 degree higher on the passenger side. This will eliminate pull from the road crown.
18" LM Champions FTW!As for your pull to the right, that can be caused by a lot of things. Toe, is definitely the 1st thing to check. But, caster, camber, and even setback can be an issue, as well as ride height. Do you have the camber/caster bolts installed? If so, you should adjust caster to 1 degree higher on the passenger side. This will eliminate pull from the road crown.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Seattle
w203 m112
Frank, Just get into the alignment shop and have that sorted out. not TOO expensive. YOu need it anyways, so then you can at least rule out the alignment issue IF there is a steering issue. I highly doubt its any other issue than alignment. When I had my front lower control arms replaced my front alignment was all sorts of messed up.
Get the firestone lifetime alignment - roughly 175 bux and you can take the car back at long as you own the car (and it has to keep the same plates). Ive taken my car every time I've messed w/ the suspension and/or tires. Well worth it cuz I've got at least 6 times in 3ish years
Get the firestone lifetime alignment - roughly 175 bux and you can take the car back at long as you own the car (and it has to keep the same plates). Ive taken my car every time I've messed w/ the suspension and/or tires. Well worth it cuz I've got at least 6 times in 3ish years
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Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
Likes: 18
From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
thanks fellows. I was planning to take it to get alignment done next week anyway, just wanted to gather some possible opinions.
don't have the camber bolts up front, so pretty much the only thing that can be adjusted up front is the toe-angle. The mechanic made sure to bolt control arms 99.9% back to it's original spot.
I'll probably take it to one of my dad's friend's Firestone shop around the area and have them do it.
don't have the camber bolts up front, so pretty much the only thing that can be adjusted up front is the toe-angle. The mechanic made sure to bolt control arms 99.9% back to it's original spot.
I'll probably take it to one of my dad's friend's Firestone shop around the area and have them do it.
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Frank - even without fluted 3 way bolts - although I recommend their fitment - you should have enough latitude to set castor 1 deg more positive on the passenger side. For LHD vehicles typically 9.6 deg drivers side & 10.6 deg passenger side. This is a must on a 203 or 204 to prevent pulling with road camber.
Obviously you need to get the rest in spec.
Obviously you need to get the rest in spec.
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Frank - even without fluted 3 way bolts - although I recommend their fitment - you should have enough latitude to set castor 1 deg more positive on the passenger side. For LHD vehicles typically 9.6 deg drivers side & 10.6 deg passenger side. This is a must on a 203 or 204 to prevent pulling with road camber.
Obviously you need to get the rest in spec.
Obviously you need to get the rest in spec.
thanks glyn, I'll make sure they check them when i take it in next week.
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Glyn,
I had the alignment done today and unfortunately they couldn't do much if anything to the caster at all.
you said that they should be able to juice 1-degree even without the caster bolt? could you let me know how? because they were unable to do it for some reason.
I also re-read what you and john/splinter's alignment thread and looks like I do need the caster bolts to get this done right.
left side caster is 10.4 and right side caster is 10.2 btw. the rest of the spec were adjusted to close as oem spec as possible.
from john's post the caster bolt part number is A000 330 00 18.
I had the alignment done today and unfortunately they couldn't do much if anything to the caster at all.
you said that they should be able to juice 1-degree even without the caster bolt? could you let me know how? because they were unable to do it for some reason.
I also re-read what you and john/splinter's alignment thread and looks like I do need the caster bolts to get this done right.
left side caster is 10.4 and right side caster is 10.2 btw. the rest of the spec were adjusted to close as oem spec as possible.
from john's post the caster bolt part number is A000 330 00 18.
Last edited by FrankW; Jul 6, 2010 at 09:14 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Hi Frank. Yes you can usually eek 1 degree on the castor arm bolts & the strut tower but it looks as though you don't have the latitude. Don't be disappointed - It means the frame on your car is absolutely true. Get the 4 fluted bolts & let them fit to the camber & castor bushes. That will give them the adjustment latitude. Your car should pull with the camber of the road at it's present setting - this is normal. The one degree castor shift fixes the problem every time as long as front tyres have not worn unevenly.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Hi Frank. Yes you can usually eek 1 degree on the castor arm bolts & the strut tower but it looks as though you don't have the latitude. Don't be disappointed - It means the frame on your car is absolutely true. Get the 4 fluted bolts & let them fit to the camber & castor bushes. That will give them the adjustment latitude. Your car should pull with the camber of the road at it's present setting - this is normal. The one degree castor shift fixes the problem every time as long as front tyres have not worn unevenly.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yes Frank approx. Please do it on an alignment machine so you can see that it is right when finished because it is dependent on the bush being correctly aligned in the castor arm.
Those bolts need to be tight. There is a revised torque spec on them. Please make sure that the guys use 2 spanners or spanner & torque wrench when tightening. They must hold the bolt from turning while tightening the nut or they will strip the locating lugs/ridges out of the centre of the bush/bearing - then you will need new bush/es again!
Edit - I run my car 1 degree & have found it to always be sufficient. Benz permit up to 2 degrees difference to correct - see attach. This actually takes the car out of published spec for castor latitude.
Those bolts need to be tight. There is a revised torque spec on them. Please make sure that the guys use 2 spanners or spanner & torque wrench when tightening. They must hold the bolt from turning while tightening the nut or they will strip the locating lugs/ridges out of the centre of the bush/bearing - then you will need new bush/es again!
Edit - I run my car 1 degree & have found it to always be sufficient. Benz permit up to 2 degrees difference to correct - see attach. This actually takes the car out of published spec for castor latitude.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 7, 2010 at 08:40 PM.
Super Moderator
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
ps - I can scan my alignment for you if you need - can't find it at the moment. But 9.4/10.4 or 9.6/10.6 region has always worked for me and friends
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 7, 2010 at 08:57 PM.
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
thanks Glyn, I saw your alignment spec on the other thread.
I picked up the bolts today as well and then had the shop that installed my control arms took a look at my caster bolt side. we loosen the bolt on the passenger side to see how much movement we can get and apparently not much, but after we tighten the bolt back and I drove it out to the freeway the pulling seems to be less than before...LOL
anyway, when you say it allows for 2-degree difference you mean it has the +4 as well as -4 right, so 1-degree change on either end.
I picked up the bolts today as well and then had the shop that installed my control arms took a look at my caster bolt side. we loosen the bolt on the passenger side to see how much movement we can get and apparently not much, but after we tighten the bolt back and I drove it out to the freeway the pulling seems to be less than before...LOL
anyway, when you say it allows for 2-degree difference you mean it has the +4 as well as -4 right, so 1-degree change on either end.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yup!
Frank - these darn things are not linear because of the Benz set up. Changing castor pulls camber slightly & vice versa. Also - the location of the bushes in the arms can mess with things a bit. They are frequently pressed into the arms a few degrees out which changes the orientation of the centre slot in the bush slightly.
Frank - these darn things are not linear because of the Benz set up. Changing castor pulls camber slightly & vice versa. Also - the location of the bushes in the arms can mess with things a bit. They are frequently pressed into the arms a few degrees out which changes the orientation of the centre slot in the bush slightly.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 7, 2010 at 09:37 PM.
Thread Starter
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
Likes: 18
From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Yup!
Frank - these darn things are not linear because of the Benz set up. Changing castor pulls camber slightly & vice versa. Also - the location of the bushes in the arms can mess with things a bit. They are frequently pressed into the arms a few degrees out which changes the orientation of the centre slot in the bush slightly.
Frank - these darn things are not linear because of the Benz set up. Changing castor pulls camber slightly & vice versa. Also - the location of the bushes in the arms can mess with things a bit. They are frequently pressed into the arms a few degrees out which changes the orientation of the centre slot in the bush slightly.
since the car is pulling less I might hold it off for couple weeks since the Firestone will take care of it for me when i take it back to them anyway. 
thanks karo
i need to clean up the car, touch up some paint, and take pic with my DSLRs.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
You really should do all 4 bolts! Benz should fit them standard - they are just being cheap. I could maybe understand it on a basic C180 Classic - but on an AMG!
