US standard head unit vs Euro In-Dash CD head unit
05-27-2002, 05:02 PM
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'02 C240/6
US standard head unit vs Euro In-Dash CD head unit
I know some of the US people have replaced the factory head unit on the new C class with a European In-Dash CD Audio 10 (BE4410 / BE6021). I am tempted to do the same, not because of the in-dash CD (although that is welcome), but because of the availability of an aux-in (Audio 10 BE6020) add-on for that unit. Many here state that there is some improvement in sound, but I would like to dig further into that as it seems improbable.
The US stock system is an Audio 30. The In-Dash CD is an Audio 10. Every place in the world where both are available, there is a US$ 400 to 500 premium to go from Audio 10 to Audio 30. Purchase price of an Audio 30 is twice that of an Audio 10 at MB parts stores. Audio 30 is rated at 25watts x 4, whereas the Audio 10 is 15 watts x 4. All seems to indicate that the Audio 30 is the higher-end, supposed-to-sound-better unit (designed to handle telephone and changer). For those of you have changed the head unit, can please indicate whether you see a difference in sound quality, and it what direction? Please also indicate whether you have a sedan/coupe and Bose/non-Bose. Please note that the sound quality, in order to be compared fairly, must be from the same source (e.g., in dash CD vs a CD in the changer, or FM station vs FM station). I would very much appreciate your statement, as I'm in the process of making a purchase decision shortly.
Thanks.
The US stock system is an Audio 30. The In-Dash CD is an Audio 10. Every place in the world where both are available, there is a US$ 400 to 500 premium to go from Audio 10 to Audio 30. Purchase price of an Audio 30 is twice that of an Audio 10 at MB parts stores. Audio 30 is rated at 25watts x 4, whereas the Audio 10 is 15 watts x 4. All seems to indicate that the Audio 30 is the higher-end, supposed-to-sound-better unit (designed to handle telephone and changer). For those of you have changed the head unit, can please indicate whether you see a difference in sound quality, and it what direction? Please also indicate whether you have a sedan/coupe and Bose/non-Bose. Please note that the sound quality, in order to be compared fairly, must be from the same source (e.g., in dash CD vs a CD in the changer, or FM station vs FM station). I would very much appreciate your statement, as I'm in the process of making a purchase decision shortly.
Thanks.
05-27-2002, 09:58 PM
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jules,
I am not an audiophile like some of the folks here, but I can tell you that the Audio 10 sounds much, much better than the Audio 30 that came in the car. There is more bass and treble range, and the sound is just awesome in comparison. It's as if the speakers woke up. The only real negative I have found is that all of the AM stations don't come in over here, it's hit and miss. That's a small price to pay in my book.
I do not have the Bose system in my car by the way.
I am not an audiophile like some of the folks here, but I can tell you that the Audio 10 sounds much, much better than the Audio 30 that came in the car. There is more bass and treble range, and the sound is just awesome in comparison. It's as if the speakers woke up. The only real negative I have found is that all of the AM stations don't come in over here, it's hit and miss. That's a small price to pay in my book.
I do not have the Bose system in my car by the way.
05-28-2002, 06:29 PM
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'02 C240/6
Would the improvement also take place in a sedan?
Is the standard non-Bose sound system identical between the sports coupe and the sedan? I know the head unit is the same, but how about other components such as amps and speakers? How many speakers in the coupe? Since I have not heard of any sedan owner who has done this, I was wondering whether it would improve sound in a sedan as well. I am quite happy with the sound of the standard sound system in the sedan, and am considering the in-dash for the CD and the possibility of obtaining a proper aux-in (rather than cassette adapter or FM modulator). I'm concerned with a downgrade in sound quality, though.
05-28-2002, 06:43 PM
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C200 Kompressor
According to people in this forum who have conducted the change, there will be a great improvment in sound-quality. I really don't know, since my car came factory equipped with the Audio 10 CD (non-BOSE) and I'm quite happy with how it sounds.
05-29-2002, 03:13 AM
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C230 coupe 6sp
Supposedly, when the 2003 model comes out it will have the CD player unit instead of the cassette. I'm hoping that my cassette player will break, and I can get them to put the CD unit in under warranty.
05-29-2002, 11:44 AM
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2007 BMW 328xi sedan
Regarding comments on Audio 30 having 10 watts more power. If these head units have an built-in amp, wouldn't that be irrelevant for Bose systems, since all c-classes with Bose use a separate amp to power all speakers? If non-bose gets powered by HU, then why wouldn't audio 30 sound better than audio 10 based on increased power alone? Does Non-Bose have a separate power amp too?
Even though I have a 6 disc changer, I want an in dash CD player as well, but I am too hooked on sports programming on AM radio, that I can't go for the Audio 10 unit for fear of losing those stations I can't live without. I am hoping that 2003 will feature a US version of Audio 10 so I can make a swap to that model. Any concrete evidence that this is on the horizon?
Even though I have a 6 disc changer, I want an in dash CD player as well, but I am too hooked on sports programming on AM radio, that I can't go for the Audio 10 unit for fear of losing those stations I can't live without. I am hoping that 2003 will feature a US version of Audio 10 so I can make a swap to that model. Any concrete evidence that this is on the horizon?
05-29-2002, 12:50 PM
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c230k
Aux in???
I'm really interested in adding an aux into my stereo. How is this accomplished on the radio, and is it with a specific audio 10 model. Also on ebay.de some of the units that I've looked at look like the new model radio but state that they are incompatible with the sportscoupe.?. How can you tell witch model is the correct one for the coupe?
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05-29-2002, 01:56 PM
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'02 C240/6
Aux-In depends on stock vs in-dash cd headunit
Pixelpro,
The European In-Dash CD Audio 10, Becker model BE6021 which is specific for W203 new C Class, can acquire an aux-in port with the installation of Becker part number BE6020. The US cassette-based Audio 30 does not have an option for an aux-in. You have to create it either using an FM Modulator or a cassette adapter. I prefer the cassette adapter as it sounds way better.
No idea about the incompatibilites you mention. Please post a link to the ebay.de item you are talking about. I thought the coupe and sedan headunits were identical.
The European In-Dash CD Audio 10, Becker model BE6021 which is specific for W203 new C Class, can acquire an aux-in port with the installation of Becker part number BE6020. The US cassette-based Audio 30 does not have an option for an aux-in. You have to create it either using an FM Modulator or a cassette adapter. I prefer the cassette adapter as it sounds way better.
No idea about the incompatibilites you mention. Please post a link to the ebay.de item you are talking about. I thought the coupe and sedan headunits were identical.
05-29-2002, 02:03 PM
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'02 C240/6
Separate amp for all speakers in all W203s?
dmichael,
You pose an interesting question. I thought the amp was only for the subwoofer and that the other speakers were fed directly from the headunit. In which case, the Audio 30 should sound better than the Audio 10, which is my main concern in going from Audio 30 cassette to Audio 10 CD. Greater power also has implications of better intended sound quality.
I have as of yet to hear from anyone with a sedan who has changed to the in-dash CD headunit. I wonder how the sound quality is perceived to have changed fir a sedan.
You pose an interesting question. I thought the amp was only for the subwoofer and that the other speakers were fed directly from the headunit. In which case, the Audio 30 should sound better than the Audio 10, which is my main concern in going from Audio 30 cassette to Audio 10 CD. Greater power also has implications of better intended sound quality.
I have as of yet to hear from anyone with a sedan who has changed to the in-dash CD headunit. I wonder how the sound quality is perceived to have changed fir a sedan.
05-29-2002, 06:14 PM
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c230 Coupe
i have not heard the audio 10, but i am a sound engineer for a living and i can tell you that more power does not mean better sound, it just means more power going to the speaks. 
05-29-2002, 10:00 PM
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'02 C240/6
hokusbenz,
As a sound engineer please tell me, how often will the same manufacturer make two different units with one (Audio 30) numbered higher than the other (Audio 10), with the same one rated at 67% more power (25wx4) than the other (15wx4), and with the same one priced twice as much (~800) as the other (~400), both for the same car, AND YET, make the other one (Audio 10) a higher fidelity unit?
As a sound engineer please tell me, how often will the same manufacturer make two different units with one (Audio 30) numbered higher than the other (Audio 10), with the same one rated at 67% more power (25wx4) than the other (15wx4), and with the same one priced twice as much (~800) as the other (~400), both for the same car, AND YET, make the other one (Audio 10) a higher fidelity unit?
05-30-2002, 01:06 AM
#12
jules,
They are not the same manufacturer. The Audio 10 is manufactured by Becker (www.becker.de). The cassette/radio sold with C-class cars in North America is manufactured by Alpine, and as far as I know, is not called the Audio 30. They look similar, they both have the same electrical wiring harness plug-ins and they both have D2B optical interfaces. However, they are built by different manufacturers for Mercedes-Benz. My radio is labelled "Model CM1010, Made in Japan" on the bottom.
By the way, when vendors talk about power output from an amplifier, some vendors will speak of "peak output" while others will speak of "average output" or "rms output" or "watts rms". Average or "continuous" output is a much better measure of an amplifier's power.
You should be very skeptical of the 25x4 figure. And you would be even more skeptical if you (like me) had taken apart the radio and looked at the amplifier section. The amplifier part is very very small. I don't know what "class" of amplifier it is. It is possible that it is a "class T" Tripath amplifier. They are very small, very low power consumption, very low heat generation, relatively high output. They are not very high fidelity, however.
They are not the same manufacturer. The Audio 10 is manufactured by Becker (www.becker.de). The cassette/radio sold with C-class cars in North America is manufactured by Alpine, and as far as I know, is not called the Audio 30. They look similar, they both have the same electrical wiring harness plug-ins and they both have D2B optical interfaces. However, they are built by different manufacturers for Mercedes-Benz. My radio is labelled "Model CM1010, Made in Japan" on the bottom.
By the way, when vendors talk about power output from an amplifier, some vendors will speak of "peak output" while others will speak of "average output" or "rms output" or "watts rms". Average or "continuous" output is a much better measure of an amplifier's power.
You should be very skeptical of the 25x4 figure. And you would be even more skeptical if you (like me) had taken apart the radio and looked at the amplifier section. The amplifier part is very very small. I don't know what "class" of amplifier it is. It is possible that it is a "class T" Tripath amplifier. They are very small, very low power consumption, very low heat generation, relatively high output. They are not very high fidelity, however.
05-30-2002, 05:12 AM
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C200 Kompressor
I don't think you guys have the Audio 30 in your cars....
The "Audio 30"-system, which is optional in Europe is also called "MB Audio 30 APS", and this is a simpler version of the COMAND (you get directions with arrows instead of on a map) and this system costs ~$2000 over here....
Hope this makes things a little clearer
The "Audio 30"-system, which is optional in Europe is also called "MB Audio 30 APS", and this is a simpler version of the COMAND (you get directions with arrows instead of on a map) and this system costs ~$2000 over here....
Hope this makes things a little clearer
05-30-2002, 08:30 AM
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'02 C240/6
Dts, Cryptnotic,
I got the power ratings from the MB Italy S-Class web configurator. http://www.daimlerchrysler.it/mbi/in...accessori.htm. I know that not all Audio 30s are navigation units, both types are available as I have seen price listings with all three options, Audio 10, Audio 30, and Audio 30 APS with prices that go something like, 400, 800, 1900.
The desription of the difference between Audio 10 and 30 (in addition to power), from what I have been able to see, is that the Audio 30 has a numeric keypad for direct radio frequency entering and telephone operation. The Audio 30 also has "soft keys" along the bottom. If you look at pictures of Audio 10 and Audio 30 for non C-Class and then you do the same for Euro and US units, you will see that the differences are the exact same ones. Look at the attached picture, the only radio that is not labeled as explicitly as Audio 10 or Audio 30 is the standard US cassette unit, however it just seems to me that it must be and Audio 30. There is a point though, in that all except that one are made by Becker.
I still want to know whether anyone has tried the Audio 10 CD in a Sedan. Every single opinion I have read comes from a Coupe owner, and I don't know that the other components of the sound system are the same. I think the sedans have 7 speakers, whereas the coupes have 6. Are the sub amplifiers the same, etc.?
I got the power ratings from the MB Italy S-Class web configurator. http://www.daimlerchrysler.it/mbi/in...accessori.htm. I know that not all Audio 30s are navigation units, both types are available as I have seen price listings with all three options, Audio 10, Audio 30, and Audio 30 APS with prices that go something like, 400, 800, 1900.
The desription of the difference between Audio 10 and 30 (in addition to power), from what I have been able to see, is that the Audio 30 has a numeric keypad for direct radio frequency entering and telephone operation. The Audio 30 also has "soft keys" along the bottom. If you look at pictures of Audio 10 and Audio 30 for non C-Class and then you do the same for Euro and US units, you will see that the differences are the exact same ones. Look at the attached picture, the only radio that is not labeled as explicitly as Audio 10 or Audio 30 is the standard US cassette unit, however it just seems to me that it must be and Audio 30. There is a point though, in that all except that one are made by Becker.
I still want to know whether anyone has tried the Audio 10 CD in a Sedan. Every single opinion I have read comes from a Coupe owner, and I don't know that the other components of the sound system are the same. I think the sedans have 7 speakers, whereas the coupes have 6. Are the sub amplifiers the same, etc.?
05-30-2002, 12:10 PM
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MB sound systems, both Bose and standard, use an external amplifier (so the head unit's amp is totally irrelevant, as it's not used). The amp in the coupe is different compared to the sedan (part numbers are different). That's because Coupe and Sedan have different acoustical properties, and their respective sound systems are designed with that in mind. But the head units are exactly the same between the two.
I remember reading about this long time ago.
I remember reading about this long time ago.
05-30-2002, 12:37 PM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Hmm? So where is the amp mounted in the sedan and can it be upgraded with a more powerful aftermarket amp?
thanks
Jim
thanks
Jim
05-30-2002, 01:04 PM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
According to this page... http://www.soundlabsgroup.com/Becker/Becker_OEM.htm the Audio 10 is only 15 wpc and only goes down to 50Hz in CD mode 
Not too good!
Not too good!
05-30-2002, 01:48 PM
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'02 C240/6
So the solution is clear...
Vadim,
If I understand you right, the head units feed preamplified output to the amplifier in the car. This means that the preamp output of the head unit can be fed as an aux input to a second din-sized unit placed in the pocket below the factory head-unit, and the preamp output of the second unit then feeds to the car's amplifier. So you can buy whatever head unit you want, with CD MP3 and XM-Radio built-in, for example, so long as it has an aux input and pre-outputs (I would use an empeg, however) Whenever you want to listen to a cassette (who does?) or radio or cd changer (if you have one) from the stock head unit you simply select aux in as the source in the second unit.
Do you know where to find more detailed info regarding this? Also, do you know where to find info to indentify which of the wires are the pre-outs from the head unit?
If I understand you right, the head units feed preamplified output to the amplifier in the car. This means that the preamp output of the head unit can be fed as an aux input to a second din-sized unit placed in the pocket below the factory head-unit, and the preamp output of the second unit then feeds to the car's amplifier. So you can buy whatever head unit you want, with CD MP3 and XM-Radio built-in, for example, so long as it has an aux input and pre-outputs (I would use an empeg, however) Whenever you want to listen to a cassette (who does?) or radio or cd changer (if you have one) from the stock head unit you simply select aux in as the source in the second unit.
Do you know where to find more detailed info regarding this? Also, do you know where to find info to indentify which of the wires are the pre-outs from the head unit?
05-30-2002, 01:54 PM
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Technically, that sounds feasible. However, that way you'll lose the steering wheel contrlos - at least they won't work with the "new" unit.
Sorry, no info on the head unit pinout.
Sorry, no info on the head unit pinout.
05-30-2002, 02:13 PM
#20
jules,
All I am saying is that the unit in the picture you have labelled C-class Audio 30 (third row, second column) is not manufactured by Becker. It is made by Alpine. That is the information I got from Becker when I tried to order a service manual for the radio. They said to talk to Alpine, since they didn't make it.
It really does look like the Becker units though, doesn't it?
By the way, I am 99.9% sure that there is no external amplifier stock on my C-coupe (non-Bose). I can't say for sure about other MB cars or other C-class models. I can check next time I take the door panels and the dash apart.
All I am saying is that the unit in the picture you have labelled C-class Audio 30 (third row, second column) is not manufactured by Becker. It is made by Alpine. That is the information I got from Becker when I tried to order a service manual for the radio. They said to talk to Alpine, since they didn't make it.
It really does look like the Becker units though, doesn't it?
By the way, I am 99.9% sure that there is no external amplifier stock on my C-coupe (non-Bose). I can't say for sure about other MB cars or other C-class models. I can check next time I take the door panels and the dash apart.
05-30-2002, 02:25 PM
#21
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Originally posted by Jim Banville
Hmm? So where is the amp mounted in the sedan and can it be upgraded with a more powerful aftermarket amp?
thanks
Jim
Hmm? So where is the amp mounted in the sedan and can it be upgraded with a more powerful aftermarket amp?
thanks
Jim
Upgrading it doesn't seem impossible, but you'll likely have to upgrade the speakers, too - or there will be a risk of frying them.
05-30-2002, 02:44 PM
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2008 VW GTI
I am 99.9% sure that there is no external amplifier stock on my C-coupe (non-Bose). I can't say for sure about other MB cars or other C-class models. I can check next time I take the door panels and the dash apart.
FWIW- I predict there is NO external amp on either the bose or non-bose systems...that's just a guess. The cubby hole under the head unit gets pretty hot during operation. Is it safe to assume that the heat is generated by the internal AMP in the head unit? Think of the cost associated with designing a system with an external amp. If MB had a choice, I think they'd take the cheap route an use a head unit with a built-in amp.
05-30-2002, 02:48 PM
#23
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Originally posted by avlis
FWIW- I predict there is NO external amp on either the bose or non-bose systems...that's just a guess.
FWIW- I predict there is NO external amp on either the bose or non-bose systems...that's just a guess.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...light=bose+amp
05-30-2002, 03:20 PM
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C230 Kompressor Sports Sedan
Originally posted by speedfrk
Supposedly, when the 2003 model comes out it will have the CD player unit instead of the cassette. I'm hoping that my cassette player will break, and I can get them to put the CD unit in under warranty.
Supposedly, when the 2003 model comes out it will have the CD player unit instead of the cassette. I'm hoping that my cassette player will break, and I can get them to put the CD unit in under warranty.
05-31-2002, 09:12 PM
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2008 VW GTI
Supposedly, when the 2003 model comes out it will have the CD player unit instead of the cassette. I'm hoping that my cassette player will break, and I can get them to put the CD unit in under warranty.
