AMG C Class Diesel
05-30-2002, 10:21 AM
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AMG C Class Diesel
Europe to get first AMG Mercedes Diesel
AMG C30D
In September, Mercedes will begin selling the first diesel AMG model, the C30D. It uses a modified version of the C270 CDI's 2.7-litre engine, bored out to 3.0 litres and producing 200bhp and 500Nm, which will give a 0-60mph time of less than six seconds. The engine will appear initially in the C-Class saloon and estate, before being fitted to the Sports Coupé.
AMG C30D
In September, Mercedes will begin selling the first diesel AMG model, the C30D. It uses a modified version of the C270 CDI's 2.7-litre engine, bored out to 3.0 litres and producing 200bhp and 500Nm, which will give a 0-60mph time of less than six seconds. The engine will appear initially in the C-Class saloon and estate, before being fitted to the Sports Coupé.
05-30-2002, 11:11 AM
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Ouch! A diesel that is faster than the average gas car! Theres enough torque to do the job too! My mother has the 300SDL with only 157hp, 200hp out of the same displacement is unreal! This is one diesel I could live with.
05-30-2002, 01:09 PM
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Re: AMG C Class Diesel
Originally posted by benzomonterey
Europe to get first AMG Mercedes Diesel AMG C30D
...producing 200bhp and 500Nm
Europe to get first AMG Mercedes Diesel AMG C30D
...producing 200bhp and 500Nm
Cheers, BT
05-30-2002, 01:17 PM
#4
Benzo, I know you preface your note with "Europe to get first..." I'll bet we never see it in the US. Perception here is that diesels are economical (read: non performance) and AMG is brute force, so the combination would have to answer an oxymoron hurdle. Don't know about european perception.
OK, I'm being lazy... How many pound feet of torque is 500nm? Based on HP alone, I don't see how a C30D AMG (at 200HP) trumps a standard C320 (215HP) to 60 mph?
OK, I'm being lazy... How many pound feet of torque is 500nm? Based on HP alone, I don't see how a C30D AMG (at 200HP) trumps a standard C320 (215HP) to 60 mph?
Last edited by MB-BOB; 05-30-2002 at 01:21 PM.
05-30-2002, 01:29 PM
#5
Originally posted by MB-BOB
Benzo, I know you preface your note with "Europe to get first..." I'll bet we never see it in the US. Perception here is that diesels are economical (read: non performance) and AMG is brute force, so the combination would have to answer an oxymoron hurdle. Don't know about european perception.
OK, I'm being lazy... How many pound feet of torque is 500nm? Based on HP alone, I don't see how a C30D AMG (at 200HP) trumps a standard C320 (215HP) to 60 mph?
Benzo, I know you preface your note with "Europe to get first..." I'll bet we never see it in the US. Perception here is that diesels are economical (read: non performance) and AMG is brute force, so the combination would have to answer an oxymoron hurdle. Don't know about european perception.
OK, I'm being lazy... How many pound feet of torque is 500nm? Based on HP alone, I don't see how a C30D AMG (at 200HP) trumps a standard C320 (215HP) to 60 mph?
We'll never see the diesel here because of the high sulfur content of our desiel fuel.
05-30-2002, 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by MB-BOB
Benzo, I know you preface your note with "Europe to get first..." I'll bet we never see it in the US. Perception here is that diesels are economical (read: non performance) and AMG is brute force, so the combination would have to answer an oxymoron hurdle. Don't know about european perception.
OK, I'm being lazy... How many pound feet of torque is 500nm? Based on HP alone, I don't see how a C30D AMG (at 200HP) trumps a standard C320 (215HP) to 60 mph?
Benzo, I know you preface your note with "Europe to get first..." I'll bet we never see it in the US. Perception here is that diesels are economical (read: non performance) and AMG is brute force, so the combination would have to answer an oxymoron hurdle. Don't know about european perception.
OK, I'm being lazy... How many pound feet of torque is 500nm? Based on HP alone, I don't see how a C30D AMG (at 200HP) trumps a standard C320 (215HP) to 60 mph?
I think they meant to say it's the first AMG Diesel model. Not that Europe will be getting it first.
05-30-2002, 05:18 PM
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European specs for emmissions apply equally to gas and deisel vehicles. Since EUSpec III kicked in in 1999 no new european diesel engine has been exported to the US. The technology used to keep the emmisions clean is not only ineffective, but inoperable with the current quality US diesel fuels. US diesel fuels will never meet the quality of EU fuels because the transportation industry relies on low cost fuel for transportation of consumer goods. 90% of european goods are moved by rail, 85% of US goods are moved by tractor trailer. If diesel cost moved up toward the $0.90/L (3.50/gallon) target the cost of goods would increas more than 50%...
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05-30-2002, 11:54 PM
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News flash from Canada
The Canadian government is mandating a phasing in of very low sulphur fuels (gas and Diesel) by 2007. Fuel costs are estimated to rise a couple of Canadian cents per litre maximum as a result.
BTW, the reason gas and Diesel are so expensive in Europe has virtually nothing to do with the lower S content; more than 3/4 of the price is taxes.
Unfortunately, those cowboy truckers will continue to get the subsidies they currently enjoy, and the CPI will not rise by 50% overnight when low S fuels are introduced.
BTW, the reason gas and Diesel are so expensive in Europe has virtually nothing to do with the lower S content; more than 3/4 of the price is taxes.
Unfortunately, those cowboy truckers will continue to get the subsidies they currently enjoy, and the CPI will not rise by 50% overnight when low S fuels are introduced.
05-31-2002, 12:07 AM
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You are right that 3/4 of the price of gasoline is taxes, however taxes on diesel fuels in are significantly been lower because to support improved fuel economy. This is a main reasons that in the last 10 years the number of diesel vehicles on the road in europe has increased so dramatically. Today almost 35% of all new vehicles sold in europe are diesel.
Also, the US and canadian proposals for reducing sulfer content do not even compare to the EU III specification. Todays American or Canadian Diesel has about 10x as much sulfer as EU III spec fuel. cutting sulfer content by 70% still leaves 3x as much sulfer. Add to this, that the eu IV specs for 2004 are even more stringent than today on diesel sulfur content. and the cost of refining goes up even more. US refineries have not been retooled for diesel processing in almost 50 years. The EU refineries have all been updated in the past 10 yrs by government mandate and paid for in part by the very taxes that you spoke of. There is no vast government coffer that is going to pay for North american refinery upgrades and this cost will be born by the consumer.
True - overall refining costs of diesel are lower than for gasoline.
True - Diesel fuel prices in US are already articially higher than gasoline
False - redusced sulfer fuel will not increase CPI
Also, the US and canadian proposals for reducing sulfer content do not even compare to the EU III specification. Todays American or Canadian Diesel has about 10x as much sulfer as EU III spec fuel. cutting sulfer content by 70% still leaves 3x as much sulfer. Add to this, that the eu IV specs for 2004 are even more stringent than today on diesel sulfur content. and the cost of refining goes up even more. US refineries have not been retooled for diesel processing in almost 50 years. The EU refineries have all been updated in the past 10 yrs by government mandate and paid for in part by the very taxes that you spoke of. There is no vast government coffer that is going to pay for North american refinery upgrades and this cost will be born by the consumer.
True - overall refining costs of diesel are lower than for gasoline.
True - Diesel fuel prices in US are already articially higher than gasoline
False - redusced sulfer fuel will not increase CPI
05-31-2002, 12:16 AM
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I wonder if it will be available with a 6-speed manual transmission. Anyone have any info on that? I know it's an AMG model, but still, MB usually pairs up their Diesels in Europe with a manual. That would be awesome!
05-31-2002, 12:20 AM
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The Canadian law is guaranteed, it's in the House of Commons now, it's no longer a proposal. I was a contributor to the committee report (my email is in the report's appendix). Wow, I'm famous 
The end state is at a point where gasoline direct injection type catalysts become possible without reservation, as well as Diesels.
I never wrote that CPI would not be affected, just that it would not go up by 50%, which is what you wrote. CPI will be slightly affected by the introduction of low S fuels.
Don't shed too many tears for the oil refineries in Canada - they, like their European counterparts, get their fair share of government subsidies. Just like the truckers - so much so that railways are shutting down everywhere.
The end state is at a point where gasoline direct injection type catalysts become possible without reservation, as well as Diesels.I never wrote that CPI would not be affected, just that it would not go up by 50%, which is what you wrote. CPI will be slightly affected by the introduction of low S fuels.
Don't shed too many tears for the oil refineries in Canada - they, like their European counterparts, get their fair share of government subsidies. Just like the truckers - so much so that railways are shutting down everywhere.
