rockintunes23

I had no problems with my sunroof in my 01 c240. The only issue was once, it had to be "resink". Happens when there is a power lose some where and the car shuts things down. Other then that, I loved my sun roof. I remember when I had a friend in the car which is bald. We took a little trip that was just over a hour. After that, he had sun burn for days. Need that sun screen. haha

Oil Change

nope

lole. are you serious? only one car comes to my mind might make ur statement true (BMW X5). Other than that... its false for most cars that I know.

Jim Banville

Maybe a loss of structural integrity is not what makes the sunroofs creak. The roofs on cars do flex ("rack") slightly. Cut out a square of sheetmetal out of the center of the roof and put in a square piece of glass that can't "rack" and you get noises as the rest of the roof flex's around it.

tommy

You're not really helping your case about not being an idiot with answers like this, you know.

nukblazi

Not sure why you think this. You may have been mislead, maybe you aren't understanding the point, or... whatever.

The normal sunroof it's a whole in the sheetmetal and the glass pops up or out, might not be that bad. But in a case like the coupe, where the entire roof is GONE, and replaced with three structural horizontal beams, and no solid tied in piece across the whole roof, rigidity is lost. Gone, bye-bye, later, peace, see-ya, nope-not-no-more. The coupe might as well be a convertible.

mbny

I live in NY and have another home in palm beach FL so i know how the heat is. I understand where your coming from, but the sunshade for the sunroof is very helpful. and i was referring to the rear sunshade b/c it helps keep the car cooler than not having it. major benefits to me for the sunroof are ventilation (when parked somewhere or in bad weather and don't want to roll down my window and let rain or snow it) and having it open on a nice day, or when it starts getting dark or at night which is MY favorite time to use it.

Oil Change

thats exactly my point... And those structural beams are NOT only in the C coupe, but usually thats how most cars are built. disregarde whether its a coupe or a sedan. honestly I'm not familiar with the C class or mercedes in general... But in usually thats how cars are built (including SUVs, And thats why I mentioned BMW X5 cuz they built it like a cage and they claim thats a unique thing).

mbny

now this is can understand as causing noise problems. your running on an aftermarket suspension so i can see why you'd acquire more random noises. but i guess i'm just not one of the unlucky ones with this issue. i had H&R springs and koni struts in my 97' maxima SE (no rattles or issues) and currently i have Eibach springs and billstein shocks in my 02' 330Ci which i do hear various noises in the car, mostly in the winter time, but nothing from above me or from the sunroof. but it's a pretty hard ride so i can understand why i'd get some rattles. i think there's many more pros than cons to having a sunroof. personally i just don't think a mercedes shouldn't have a sunroof. it's like a benz w/o leather. just doesn't seem right. but it is a matter of preference and what's nice is we all have the option to order our cars exactly how we want them.

Oil Change

I hate to ruin the fun, But I found what support what I was talking about:

http://www.ieg.ee/volvo/volvo_xc90/pildid/labivaade.jpg
http://www.auto-innovations.com/site...c-chassis.html

nukblazi

but what you're missing, despite the links, is that loose glass on rails tied to the horizontal beams, IS less rigid than when a sheet of metal is spot/seem welded along the border of the front rear and sides.

Understand what I am saying... I have a great example. When building a house, you use 2x4's to frame the walls. The exterior walls, will flop around, and shift until you nail the sheets of plywood in, not just on the outer 2x4s, but all of them, in the middle too.

On the coupe, specifically, you have a frame with no sheet. Hence, like the stick-framed walls, it's less sturdy, or rigid, since it only has glass sheets tied in on the outer supports (rails). It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet.

rockintunes23

Has anyone seen the new Pontiac G6? Love that LARGE panoramic roof. So much cheaper and BIGGER then a mercedes, but still looks nice!

Oil Change

ok am lost and I have no idea what we're talking about.

"It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet."
Again... I dont agree. since the 'solid roof sheet' isn't really solid and wont do much in case of an accident. and thats what we're talking about right?

inFiniTE LooP

i also don't sit in the back seat, but ways it could help you (because it's ways it has helped me) is:
a) for the comfort of the passengers that do travel in the backseat
and
b) i have put it up when cars behind me have been reflecting sun into my eyes from shining either off of their windshield or off of their hood

while it may seem useless to you (as it sorta did to me but i liked having it anyway ) you may run into a situation or two where it can be useful.

hehe, or you could at least do this: http://media.ebaumsworld.com/benzsign.wmv

Jim Banville

The dark tint that will be aplied to the rear window of my car + rear sun shade probably equals seeing nothing out my rear view mirror.

nukblazi

Nope, we're discussing Chassis Rigidity. No?

Here's a project for you. Take 5 toothpicks, and glue them into a square with one horizontal through the middle. Then crush it. Stand the project on end, and press down on a corner. Now do it again, but take a sheet of construction paper, and glue the paper to the toothpicks, around the outside, and down the middle (to represent the sheet metal welded to the crossmembers). Then crush it like the first. The second will be harder to break. It's more rigid, with some imagination, this could represent the pano roof version no pano.

mbny

not during the day. i could see that being possible at night however. i don't go too dark though. i use 35% tint now. i had 15's on my previous cars but they were defintely too dark plus i got a couple tickets for them here in NY. my aunt has 20% on her E-class and you can see fine out the back w/ sunshade up during the day.

Oil Change

Ah okay, then I'm not the one whose lost after all
And in fact, your example just proved that you have no idea what your talking about :P

its not sheet of construction paper, its more like a normal paper. Yes normal paper and with little force you'll penetrate it leaving the toothpicks intact.
That’s how cars are constructed. Well, if you’re talking about bulletproof cars then I maybe wrong.

You still think I’m a moron who has no idea what he’s talking about, don’t you? LOL.
This is really engineering 101 and I’ll be graduating in a year. So if I’m talking crap then that’s a disaster :p

nukblazi

No I don't think you're an idiot. I just think you are mistaken in this case. I don't understand what about my example you think proved I don't know what I am talking about. We're not speaking of penetrating the paper... Try the example... get tinker toys, any one of those engineering connector sets. build a frame... then tie it in with a sheet of anything. You'll see the difference. maybe I should draw you a diagram

Jim Banville

Oil change, maybe you'll understand this: take four 2x4's and use them to create a square on the ground. Nail the ends together, just like if you were making a children's sandbox. Now "racK" it (press in on one of the corners). Without much force, your square will no longer be "square". It will take on a diamond shape. Now, make it square again and nail a square sheet of thin metal to the top of it (like putting lid on a box). NOW try to "rack" it. You won't be able to.

Oil Change

lol, yes i understand the concept, but that doesn't work with cars. because the 'metal sheet' on top of the beams in cars doesn't effect the chassis strength at all. they build one chassis whether the car is going to have a sunroof or not. and then they place a metal sheet that now adays made from light materials that really wont do much to the ridgity.

and i have nothing to add beyond thing.

viper

All of this noise about structural rigidity with/without a sunroof is just that - noise. The real issue should be one of survivability. Most car accidents cause sheet metal compression in the front, rear or sides. I don't know of many accidents where the roof of the car is hit unless an aircraft falls on you. The simple rules of vehicle dynamics 101 says that speed is the greatest determinator of your survival - not the fact that you don't have a sunroof. Lets keep it real.

nukblazi

Structural rigidity greatly impacts the handling characteristics of the vehicle. Chassis flex and rebound will also have a factor in whether or not you need to worry about survivability in a high performance application. Again, call me The only noise is the misinformation.

Oil Change... so how do they affix the piece of sheet metal to the single structure?

tyro

Resistance is futile.

JeT

I think you guys are arguing two different things. Having a sunroof may weaken structural rigidity slightly but not significantly enough to make any real difference to a person driving a car under ordinary driving conditions on a street. The argument may be different for someone using their car for autocross in which case the analogies drawn above may be relevant. Those appear to be the 2 lines of argument each of you are using.

Therefore, anyone arguing that having no sunroof on an ordinary road is going to make any real difference is, with respect, being a little paranoid (unless you race around the streets)...But having no sunroof certainly makes sense if you are autocrossing.

In terms of roof creaking, obviously rigidity is a facctor but I would think that is more a function of the design of the roof...my Pano did squeak when I first got the car, had it looked at and now it is fine. Three of our other 4 cars have sunroofs and none of them have ever had any problems.

At the end of the day, you don't have to justify why you want or don't want a sunroof...if you don't like them that's reason enough not to get one.

oggle

If you get trapped in your car from both sides, and you have a sunroof, you can still crawl out. Without it you can't.

But come on... if you drive an auto, WTF you care about the extra rigidity. Not like your car's a race car... It's like a fat guy order 3 big macs with an order of diet coke.