pc2074

I am looking to purchase another suspension kit for my W203. The H&R Cup Kits doesn't seem to be that well build which only last for about 40,000 KM on my car and I was a bit surprise after hear lots of good comments on it.

Here's my options 1. Carlsson kits(spring with match shock) 2. Eibach pro-sys(spring with match shock) 3. Brabus(spring with match shock). I prefer the non-adjustable Kit.

I would prefer more of comfort and last for longer on mileage.


Any comments would be greatly appreciate :p

JeT

Are you sure the good comments are for the H&R cup kit or the coilover kit?...alot of members have the H&R coilover kit which is much better than the Eibach Pro kit in terms of handling...but it is adjustable.

nukblazi

Sounds like you ought to either A. Go back to stock or B. Get AMG springs.

40K km? How do you know the struts/springs are bad?

drexappeal

First off, which model w203 do you have? 200(Europe)/230k/240/320?

2nd, how much do you want to spend because if you are going more for comfort, no matter what you choose, the shocks will have to be replaced at some point.

Now, where did you get the information about the 40,000 km for the cup kit? Did you get this directly from H&R?

If not, I wouldn't trust that information. 40,000 km is only ~24,000 miles. That should be double at least for the amount of time the shocks last. The springs shouldn't go bad (unless they are defective).

pc2074

I got the c200 Kompressor(120KW). 1st thing you noticed after install the H&R Cup Kits(non-adjustable) was the back is way too low unless you use the #4 pad at the rear.

After about 3 yrs you start to notices that the height get a bit lower(1.5-2 cm) and the ride gets more stiffer. Lately I found the ride is unbearable which bring me to the conclusion that either the spring or shock need to be replaced.

Just like the Anti-Roll-Kits, since it gets upgraded with Eibach ARK the car felt way better in terms of handling. As far as I am concern any product will get fatigue over a period of time.

Good point JeT !!! I might consider the H&R Coilover Kit. But I have a question for you. If you don't do club racing and what's the point to spend extra money on the adjustable coilover kits ? Beside the car need alignment after the height of the car is changed.

I have decided to replace both the shock and spring as either one would cost me a lots to get install. One more reason I prefer more comfort is if the car is too stiff then more rattle will be introduced

JeT

Fair question...but its a question only you can answer because it depends on how much you are willing to spend. I would say the handling characteristics and general feel the CO kit provides are reason enough to choose the CO kit despite them being adjustable. If your reason for getting a sports suspension kit is to lower the car as well as achieve better handling, I would go with the COs, but it obviously depends on your budget.

Can I ask why you bought the H&R cup kit?

drexappeal

Okay, so in 3 years, you only drove the car 40,000 km? Wow that's pretty good. That's ~8700 miles per year! Well, if you're set on getting a suspension upgrade and you're looking to get a combination of both comfort and handling, I don't think the H&R CO kit is the right thing for you. The reason I say this is that the H&R kit is "height adjustable", but not "damper adjustable". So in essence, you're going to get the same ride feeling and you have no choice in the matter. For that price, I would talk to, BrabusW203, he's on these boards. He offers a great price for both the Bilstein PSS9's and for the KW Coilover kits. And both of those kits are "damper adjustable".

S_kLaSse

Don't forget the KW

pc2074

How is the PSS9 compare to Carlsson RS-sport chassis suspension (adjustable) ? Are they about the same price ? I guess the H&R doesn't make the CO adjustable for C class ?

As why I bought the Cup Kits coz at that time there's no CO at all available on the market. JeT, may I ask where you get your H&R CO from in Australia ? I found you always pay at least double compare to U.S market The H&R distributor would charge about $ 2k in Sydney; but my friend bought for me from oversea at $650 U.S :p Not sure where u can get a good deal on the after maket parts for Merc in Ozzy

Saprissa

The CARLSSON RS Sport Suspension comes with BILSTEIN PSS9 shocks.

The ride & handling on this fully adjustable system is plain AWESOME !!
a pretty penny, but AWESOME !!

Carlos

Saprissa@aol.com

JeT

I don't have the CO kit...but several of my mates do. They never buy from distributors in Australia...usually get them sent from the US when there is a sale on but you still have to pay for tax and shipping (still cheaper than buying here). I may get them eventually but really there is no real point for me as I run off 17"s and my sports suspension is good enough for me.

One of the members here, Bajaiman, got the H&R CO kit from Evosport when they had a sale for $900USD I think. Send him a PM. You could also PM W0n6_3d4n who has the Carlsson CO kit...I can't recall where he got his though.

I take it you are in Australia...you should put that in your profile so members can tell who they are talking to.

drexappeal

The Carlsson RS-sport chassis CO are built on the Bilstein platform, just using Carlsson springs.

H&R DOES make the CO adjustable kit for the C Class, but the H&R CO kit is only adjustable ride height, not damper! So in essence, what you'd be getting is an "advanced" version of the cup kit (for lack of a better/non-complicated way to explain it).

Carlsson, Bilstein, KW are fully adjustable (ride height and damper adjustable). The Carlsson and Bilstein CO kits have the same amount of damper adjustment (9 settings, I believe). I'm not sure about the KW adjustment levels. I couldn't find detailed information about it on the website.

Also, there is one board memeber that has the CO kit that I am looking to get when it is available. Those are the TEIN Super Sprint Coilovers. TEIN is a Japanese company, however their suspension systems have great reputations. The TEIN Super Sprint Coilovers are currently under development according to their website. I tried to contact the 1 member on here that has the TEIN CO kit for the w203, but did not receive a response. I contacted TEIN and they said they were not certain as to when these would be available for distribution/sales.

I'm actually glad because it'll give me time to put aside money for those.

Like I had mentioned in my previous post, I would contact BrabusW203 (member on this board).

He's offers a great price for either the KW's or BILSTEIN PSS9's. No matter what, if you are going with "fully adjustable" coilovers, you should expect to pay a minimum of $1,300. There's always a price for good suspension, but ALWAYS worth it!

nrm032

Hi... Are you looking for H&R coil over?? one of my friend thinking to selling it? do you intrested? I Let you know if I could contact my friends, since he is in overseas right now, but would be back shortly.......

nukblazi

This thread seems only mildy mis-guided. You can replace either you springs or struts independently. Just because it is a H&R cup-kit, doesn't mean you can't swap in Koni's.

What do YOU want out of YOUR suspension? This will help us provide recommendations.

You have an array of Coilover choices. From most basic to complex and costly-
H&R Coilover; Height adjustable
KW Variant 1; Height adjustable
KW Variant 2; Height and Rebound adjustable
Bilstein PSS-9; Height and Rebound adjustable
Carlsson RS; As said based on the Bilsteins, not sure if it is based on the PSS-9 or a standard height only Bilstein

Kits-
H&R Cup-kit
Eibach Pro-kit
Kleemann (unique in that they use a penske system which is light years ahead of standard struts
Carlsson
and every other tuner out there

Shocks-
AMG
Koni
Bilsteins (not in the USA but can be had)

Springs-
AMG
H&R
Eibach
and many many more maybe not worth mentioning



What's the best? It depends on what you want. You could want the name (Brabus springs), you might want to slam your car all the way to the ground, you might want the ultimate adjustable system (penske struts with remote res. and Eibach springs, etc.) You can do anything, WHAT DO YOU WANT.

nukblazi

Rebound and height adjustable is not fully adjustable. There is also bump, and on a real fully adjustable system, there is low speed and high speed bump and rebound adjustments. (puke)

$1300 for fully adjustable? No. My H&Rs retail, the cheapest at the time was Evosport at $1400 + shipping. The V1's retail for $1600 and the V2's for $1850. The PSS-9 is more than $2K. (puke)

(puke) (puke) (puke) I don't think Carlsson would replace the Bilstein spring with their own. Hell, they don't make their own springs. Closest would be a private lable spring made to their spec by Eibach or H&R. I private label tuner spec spring for a mercedes might only differ in it being softer. The pros at Eibach are usually first out of the gate, and in my opinion, the sport spring for the coupe was stiffer than the H&R spring for the coupe. The H&R springs were good enough to auto-x with, and do well. I think it was too soft. (puke)

Anyway, for street driving, no track, and comfort, I'd say go with the Kleemann sport suspension for the C. Spring and strut combo, based on a Penske strut. It uses a unique valving system that, for lack of a better word, makes the strut progressive, it is OEM like at street speeds, but the harder you push it, the more it pushes back. I don't know how to describe it. Look at the penske site for details. (puke)

Best brain dump I can pull off at this hour.


Word of caution. If you don't need to, don't lower the car too much. Our cars experience significant issues with the geometry as you lower because of the MacP struts. If you go to low, you will cross the roll-center under hard cornering. This is why (besides clearance issues) we don't fully lower the front coilovers for motorsports on these cars (trackdays/auto-x), going too low negatively impacts the handling of the car, and is worthless on the street, re; dangerous.

drexappeal

Okay, I just want to clarify that this is not a specific price I know of. When I posted this price, it was based on the minimum I've seen online for ANY kind of Coilover kit.

Specifically, I've seen the H&R coilovers for this much. You can do a search on Google and easily find good prices, but like I said, this is a MINIMUM you should expect to pay anywhere (before tax/shipping/etc...). Please do not read into this as anymore than it is. It's just a starting price.

BOOSTEDPGT

Wow, i'm pretty lost..... I see what you all are saying about the various suspension kits....but.. i think a lot of people want to know how to lower ur car just so some 18 or 19" rims will look right (very little wheel gap) at a low price and not sacrifice too much comfort..

This may be impossible to achieve.....but i just really want just springs to lower the car...all feedback to this option regarding ride comfort woudl be greatly appreciated!

drexappeal

Well, seeing that you used to drive a 95 Probe GT (I used to have a 94 MX-6 LS), you'll see that there are MANY more options with the w203 (C Class) than there were with the Probe/MX-6.

With the Probe/MX-6, the only real options for suspension were separate springs/shocks (for the majority). Spring options on those cars were Eibach, Intrax, Sprint and Suspnesion Techniques. These all had different lowering ratios, but all served the purpose of getting a lower profile ride. Much like those springs, you can get a "spring only" upgrade for the w203. If memory serves me correct, there are H&R, Eibach, Renntech, Carlsson, AMG, Brabus, and I'm not sure what else. That is just to change the springs.

Keep in mind, you have a Sports Sedan, so you want to make sure what the difference in drop rate will be between your OEM "sport springs" and aftermarket sport springs.

Now, the Probe/MX-6 also had the Ground Control Coilover Kit (It had Eibach springs). This kit is exactly the same thing as the H&R CO kit. It's height adjustable, but not damper/rebound adjustable. I had the Ground Control Coilover Kit on my car and it got VERY rough after a while (but I didn't mind because of the handling).

There is nothing available for the Probe/MX-6 that would be comparible to the H&R Cup Kit.

The Probe/MX-6 also did not have FULLY ADJUSTABLE COILOVERS available at all, unless they were custom made. They did have the MAZDASPEED Adjustable Struts, but obviously a fully adjutable coilover prevents having to "mix and match".

So in essence, if you are just looking to make your car have a "lower profile" with not as much regard for handling, there ARE options out there. In fact, I believe a lot of people are running on the Eibachs and/or Renntech springs with the stock shocks. Another thing to keep in mind is that if you go with just a spring upgrade, it is most likely that the wear/tear of the shocks will come faster than if you were to replace the entire suspension with a Coilover Kit or the Cup Kit (at least that is what I found out running on Intrax initially w/ Stock shocks).

BOOSTEDPGT

wow very nice reply!!!! that really helps a lot!! Now...does anyone have experience to what they believe is the best spring (just spring with stock struts)??

Again thank you soo much!!

demon

do amg springs fit the coupes? direct replace without shocks?
how is the height and stiffness?

vadim

I wonder why noone sells Billstein shocks for W203 in the US. I am toying with the idea of putting them on, but not sure how much stiffer they are compared to Koni (which have a definite plus - adjustable rebound). Any authoritative opinion on this? Thanks!

pc2074

1st of all, thanks very much for everyone's reply :p

I guess I would go for the Kits easy and straight forward, beside the new C class will be release in 2 yrs. What's the point spend $$$$$ on the suspension.

I may go for Kleemann or Eibach pro-kit ??? NOt sure yet. I guess I don't need to lower the car that much but want a bit of sports feeling. The car still runs on standard 16" wheels(7 front; 8 rear) to maintain the ride comfort.

Any more comments on Eibach pro-kit ? How does it compare with other Kits ?

BTW does the H&R Cup Kits use the same spring as those sport spring they sold separately ?

nukblazi

I was going to but by the time you add up the wait to get it here, the cost (Euro +), shipping, customs blah blah, it isn't worth it. I believe the H&R Cup-Kit and Coilover use a Bilstein private label strut/shock.

Your suspension is your connection between your and it's braking, accelerating, and cornering abilities. Over the next two years, you need to decide how you want it to drive. Suspension is important.

The H&R Cup-kit spring is not the same as the sport spring. Since you had the sport spring, and you like control of your ride, I'd spend the money on the Koni Adjustable (Yellows) strut/shock. You would then have some control over how soft your ride was. To a degree at least. You could always resell them as long as their still good, if you make it to 2007 on them.

From what I hear, the Kleemann kit (strut/spring) is the best driving of all these systems, but remember, their goal is "Comfort Performance", and they do an outstanding job at that.

drexappeal

BOOSTEDPGT,

I'm sure you had experience on forums, such as MX6.com or Probetalk.com. Both of those sites had similar search functions as this website. You can isolate a search in a specific forum. Since I'm feeling extra "nice" today and not too lazy, I took the liberty of doing a few searches for you.

Remember, the trick in searching the forums is to start VERY general, then make your searches more specific once there seems to be less information available to you. Here is what I came up with for your question:

SEARCH - aftermarket springs
https://mbworld.org/forums/search.php?searchid=366077

- Thread "aftermarket springs with factory shocks longevity questions"
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...market+springs

SEARCH - sport springs
https://mbworld.org/forums/search.php?searchid=366094


Remember, when I did the search, I isolated the search to the W203 forum, so that everything that would come up would ONLY be to this particular forum. That's the ONLY difference between mbworld.org and the MX6.COM/PROBETALK.COM forums! On there, we could assume that everything would be for the MX6/PROBE/626. On here, you have to select the specific forum because this entire forum is for MB's in general.