Novice question
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C70/C350
Novice question
Do you expect a "chip" will be available to increase HP on the 300/350?
anything "bad" about the awd model 300? will this make a difference in attempting to increase hp on an awd 300?
only reason i can see to get a 300 is awd
228 hp seems far to low
thanks in advance
anything "bad" about the awd model 300? will this make a difference in attempting to increase hp on an awd 300?
only reason i can see to get a 300 is awd
228 hp seems far to low
thanks in advance
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none
I also think that 228 hp is very low. I am also curious about the chip, however, let's assume that it can be added, does anyone know if it will be expensive to take it out (I plan to lease the 300 4 matic when it comes out). 4matic will be even slower because of its weight - 228hp on 4matic is a joke compared to 335xi.
Also, does anyone know what is the current money factor MB is charging right now? Also, anyone heared what the residual value will be for the 300?
Also, does anyone know what is the current money factor MB is charging right now? Also, anyone heared what the residual value will be for the 300?
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C70/C350
good questions Natalie!
I expect that by this time next year C300s will be in the low $30Ks mark if they follow suit with how MB's depreciate in the first year, with under 25K miles
I too like the 335 but 2 turbos are slightly disconcerting to me. Just seems like potential for a heck of a lot of issues, but if it is a lease you are after then no biggy.
BMW's service program makes a compelling arguement as well
The 300/350 is as perfect a car as I could ask for, except the weak engine.
Have there been any issues that anyone is aware of with 4matic system? Would be very nice to have if I decide to move to a location that requires it or in a heavy rain
For rwd, I just can't see buying a C350 for 45K when you can have the C55 for 35K or less with low miles - although the 350 is far nicer imo, with the exception of the engine of course
I don't know maybe some of the experts here can add some insight
I know my dealer is going to chrage top dollar for everything, so I don't think I will even buy there
I expect that by this time next year C300s will be in the low $30Ks mark if they follow suit with how MB's depreciate in the first year, with under 25K miles
I too like the 335 but 2 turbos are slightly disconcerting to me. Just seems like potential for a heck of a lot of issues, but if it is a lease you are after then no biggy.
BMW's service program makes a compelling arguement as well
The 300/350 is as perfect a car as I could ask for, except the weak engine.
Have there been any issues that anyone is aware of with 4matic system? Would be very nice to have if I decide to move to a location that requires it or in a heavy rain
For rwd, I just can't see buying a C350 for 45K when you can have the C55 for 35K or less with low miles - although the 350 is far nicer imo, with the exception of the engine of course
I don't know maybe some of the experts here can add some insight
I know my dealer is going to chrage top dollar for everything, so I don't think I will even buy there
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From: NYC
red bicycle
How times have changed. In 1996, the base C-Class - the C220 - came with 148 horsepower. I drove the C300 Sports Sedan last weekend and felt the power was more than adequate, and it didn't feel sluggish or slow by any means. In fact, I never even thought of power - I was impressed with the ride, the smoothness, the interior and the overall feel of the car. I found myself going faster than I thought, but that could be due to the step up in power from the 2.2L four in the C220. That said, while I understand the desire for more power, how much power is really necessary? I don't need to play the numbers game with anyone, but that's just me.
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C70/C350
that is a very fair question!
How much power is expected for a 2008 39-45K$ vehicle C-class MB?
I think we have to look at the competition.
A vehicle this size, for this price, I would think anything over 270hp would be expected
Ideally, the 300 should be at 268bhp and the 350 at 300bhp
Volvo's S60 R comes with awd, a 6spd man. and 300bhp to compare an AWD to the 4matic 300
is the S60R a fair comparison? not sure because it has a turbo as does the 335 if I am not mistaken, has 2 turbos
the S60 R has been out since 2004 though and had 300bhp then at a negotiable low 40s$ sticker price
How much power is expected for a 2008 39-45K$ vehicle C-class MB?
I think we have to look at the competition.
A vehicle this size, for this price, I would think anything over 270hp would be expected
Ideally, the 300 should be at 268bhp and the 350 at 300bhp
Volvo's S60 R comes with awd, a 6spd man. and 300bhp to compare an AWD to the 4matic 300
is the S60R a fair comparison? not sure because it has a turbo as does the 335 if I am not mistaken, has 2 turbos
the S60 R has been out since 2004 though and had 300bhp then at a negotiable low 40s$ sticker price
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From: Kirkland, WA
c300
Without forced induction, a chip is going to give meaningless gains on an NA motor. You may gain +10hp, at most, at the top end but probably loose that 10hp in the midrange.
In other words, chips on NA motors are rarely worthwhile.
Rewriting the automatic transmission shift schedule may actually get you more real world performance, but at the expense of always keeping the engine's revs up, meaning using even more fuel consumption.
As for competition, S60R: forced induction; 335: forced induction; is350: NA; Infiniti G: NA ... that's the real competition motor-wise. How come Toyota and Infiniti can get 300+hp out of run-of-the-mill 3.5l V6s and Merc can't (or won't)?
335 is already proven to be "chip-able" beyond ~350hp at the wheels. I'm sure the S60R is the same. It's easy enough on forced induction, just program the ECU to hold boost pressure, the hard part is tuning the air and fuel to make the car drivable.
With NA motors that kind of increase is unobtainable.
In other words, chips on NA motors are rarely worthwhile.
Rewriting the automatic transmission shift schedule may actually get you more real world performance, but at the expense of always keeping the engine's revs up, meaning using even more fuel consumption.
As for competition, S60R: forced induction; 335: forced induction; is350: NA; Infiniti G: NA ... that's the real competition motor-wise. How come Toyota and Infiniti can get 300+hp out of run-of-the-mill 3.5l V6s and Merc can't (or won't)?
335 is already proven to be "chip-able" beyond ~350hp at the wheels. I'm sure the S60R is the same. It's easy enough on forced induction, just program the ECU to hold boost pressure, the hard part is tuning the air and fuel to make the car drivable.
With NA motors that kind of increase is unobtainable.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
Without forced induction, a chip is going to give meaningless gains on an NA motor. You may gain +10hp, at most, at the top end but probably loose that 10hp in the midrange.
In other words, chips on NA motors are rarely worthwhile.
Rewriting the automatic transmission shift schedule may actually get you more real world performance, but at the expense of always keeping the engine's revs up, meaning using even more fuel consumption.
As for competition, S60R: forced induction; 335: forced induction; is350: NA; Infiniti G: NA ... that's the real competition motor-wise. How come Toyota and Infiniti can get 300+hp out of run-of-the-mill 3.5l V6s and Merc can't (or won't)?
335 is already proven to be "chip-able" beyond ~350hp at the wheels. I'm sure the S60R is the same. It's easy enough on forced induction, just program the ECU to hold boost pressure, the hard part is tuning the air and fuel to make the car drivable.
With NA motors that kind of increase is unobtainable.
In other words, chips on NA motors are rarely worthwhile.
Rewriting the automatic transmission shift schedule may actually get you more real world performance, but at the expense of always keeping the engine's revs up, meaning using even more fuel consumption.
As for competition, S60R: forced induction; 335: forced induction; is350: NA; Infiniti G: NA ... that's the real competition motor-wise. How come Toyota and Infiniti can get 300+hp out of run-of-the-mill 3.5l V6s and Merc can't (or won't)?
335 is already proven to be "chip-able" beyond ~350hp at the wheels. I'm sure the S60R is the same. It's easy enough on forced induction, just program the ECU to hold boost pressure, the hard part is tuning the air and fuel to make the car drivable.
With NA motors that kind of increase is unobtainable.
Motors from BMW, Volvo, VW, Audi, anything with a turbo, dial in most boost for a nice gain.
A nice example of nice gains on a smaller motor, the 2.0T. Stock is 200hp/207tq (though baseline dynos have shown the engine putting out 218hp stock). Add a chip, 247hp/293tq.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,781
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
Forced induction is what the name suggests. Using a turbocharger or supercharger, it forces compressed air into the engine than what it would normally draw in. The higher RPMs you're at, the more air it forces into the engine. That's the basics of it.
