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Why is the braking performance so poor?

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Why is the braking performance so poor?

 
Old 10-15-2007, 07:30 PM
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Why is the braking performance so poor?

I have been looking for a new car. The 08C has bad braking
performance. Why is this? If safety is important, why not put
top notch brakes on the car. This seems to be the best way to
avoid a fatal crash. Please give me you input...
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:31 PM
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Uh ... facts used to back your 'poor braking performace' claim?
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:06 PM
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Drove the new C class a month ago at the C-drive event.I was very impressed with the brake by wire system.As "oblu"stated - "facts" please.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:21 PM
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Brake by wire?

<<Drove the new C class a month ago at the C-drive event.I was very impressed with the brake by wire system.As "oblu"stated - "facts" please.>>

W204 does not have SBC brake by wire. In fact, MB abandoned the system at least a year ago.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
<<Drove the new C class a month ago at the C-drive event.I was very impressed with the brake by wire system.As "oblu"stated - "facts" please.>>

W204 does not have SBC brake by wire. In fact, MB abandoned the system at least a year ago.
That's the information the marketing group gave out at the event.It is a "adaptive" brake system that had no problem stopping the vehicle.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:51 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I love the new 2008 C. It may be the first benz in a family of 6 lexi. Just wanting to know what people are thinking...am I making something out of nothing.

2007 G35 70-0 162FT
2007 328i 70-0 160FT
2008 c350 70-0 170FT
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:01 PM
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Brake by wire?

[<<That's the information the marketing group gave out at the event.It is a "adaptive" brake system that had no problem stopping the vehicle.>>

You actually have no idea what brake-by-wire means, do you? Nor anything about the SBC debacle?
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dbriches View Post
I have been looking for a new car. The 08C has bad braking
performance. Why is this? If safety is important, why not put
top notch brakes on the car. This seems to be the best way to
avoid a fatal crash. Please give me you input...
"Why is the breaking performance so poor?" I get the impression you're pretty convinced that the braking sucks, which is quite puzzling to me: admitedly, I've not driven "new" performance cars, but if you think the w204 has bad braking system than I have to guess that other cars' braking must be absolutely phenomenal.

I say that because the C350 I drive has, I think, an excellent braking system: very easy to modulate, predictable, good feedback, the "right" pedal pressure and, all these combined with spectacular grip and compliant suspension, make the W204 quite a show-stopper. That's just my opinion and, no, I've not driven other new performance-oriented cars, so I could be off.
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:37 PM
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Ummm, why don't you think the OP's analysis of the merc's poor braking is accurate? Do you have numbers?

Or are you a Merc fanboy?

Yes, the OP had a seat-of-the-pants impression, but this doesn't necessarily mean its wrong. And its unfair to ask if s/he had numbers to back it up, do you think s/he is out on a skidpad with a tape measure? Or are you so convinced of Mercedes superiority that you just cannot believe it to be accurate? And this despite all the head scratching that Mercedes REDUCED the size of the rotors on the new C Class from the old C Class?

Well, to separate the reasonable who may like a car but realize it has warts from the fanboyz who think it is supreme and absolute, the following data is taken from road and track's website:

Merc 350sport braking from 60mph: 135feet from 80mph: 241 feet

To compare from competition:
07 BMW 335i from 60mph: 119 feet, from 80 mph:210 feet
07 infiniti g35 sport from 60 mph: 120, from 80mph 208
07 Acura TL: from 60 mph: 117, from 80mph 214
07 Lexus IS350 from 60 mph: 126, from 80mph: 219

Think those cars are lighter, or perhaps not in the same league as Merc? Well, how about a big boat and a really heavy big boat as it is a hybrid luxo-cruiser with all those lithium Ion batteries:

08 Lexus LS600hl, frlom 60mph: 120, from 80mph: 216

Is the lexus too luxo and they cheated by maybe putting on big brakes? Well, how about a pedestrian car?

08 Honda Accord Coupe, from 60mph: 132, from 80mph 242

Or perhaps a sporty econobox for half price?

08 Subaru Imprezza wrx, from 60mph: 124, from 80mph 210

What's that, the Subie is the famed WRX, even at half-price? Okay, how about within the same family, same parents, larger and heavier?

07 Mercedes e350sport: from 60mph: 129, from 80mph 226


OKAY, so I think its fair to say that either Road and Track is full of donkey dung, or you all just got Pwn'd by the OP. Face it, the c350 (and presumably the c300) is a bit of a pig. It is okay, we still like it (well, perhaps less now), but no need to become a fanboy and assume it is the best thing since sliced bread. Mercedes hasn't been engineering the way it used to, it is more brand marketing now than ever (for proof, why no 4matic with 350 engine? Canada has it, europe has it). Why remove the down-anngling of side mirrors when put in reverse, or the removal of memory seats, if it isn't a result of market research without regard to actual enginerring superiority. Why reduce the size of the brakes from the previous model if you're going for the "best". Here's a clue: they ain't. Again, its still a nice car, just not the next coming of the Mitsubishi Evo X, or whatever other performance automobile you want to insert here.

-777
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:40 PM
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Merc 350sport braking from 60mph: 135feet from 80mph: 241 feet

To compare from competition:
07 BMW 335i from 60mph: 119 feet, from 80 mph:210 feet
07 infiniti g35 sport from 60 mph: 120, from 80mph 208
07 Acura TL: from 60 mph: 117, from 80mph 214
07 Lexus IS350 from 60 mph: 126, from 80mph: 219

Or are you a Merc fanboy?
Nope, that's all I needed. I guess the new C's braking system does suck.

Next troll topic.
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:06 AM
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I honestly don't really mind numbers wise that there are cars out there that outperform the C350 Sport. If I really did care, then I would probably have ordered a 335i instead of my C350. Even if those numbers are right, the C350's braking distance is not poor at all. It's decent, but to say its poor is an overstatement. I am quite amused however that you decided to put the WRX in the list as a comparison. You see, that is the vehicle that I sold in order to get the C350. The C350 and the WRX in no way has any comparison in drive wise. If you ever owned a WRX, you would know that the car is built upon being extremely lightweight. The hood is aluminum and weighs only a few ounces heavier than carbon fiber hoods and the trunk has no insulation. Simply running over a pothole or a scar on the road warrants your trunk lid to shake causing a loud thump noise. The driving past 60mph, the hood and hoodscoop would shake uncontrolably as if it was going to lift up. It was a quick car but as a daily driver it has annoyances that would get to you fast. The stock brake system was decent, being it was only 3.1k lbs, but if you compare it to the C350 which tips over 3.6k lbs, I don't see why it can be considered poor.

I'm tired of people constantly comparing the car to the 335i. There are huge differences between both and big advantages and disadvantages to each car. It is basically down to the personal taste of oneself.

If I wanted a BMW 335i, I would have bought one, but there are reasons why the C-class has been flying off the showrooms where I live. It's because some people's personal taste prefers the C-class.
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:41 AM
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The numbers listed for C350 above are from Road and Track. The stopping distances of 135 ft from 60 mph are true but people failed to realize that test car are equiped with crappy all season Continental tires. Put on some Max performance tires like Eagle F1 GS-D3 and you'll see the stopping distance drop by 15 feet or more.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:25 AM
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Phooey....this car has the best brakes of any car we've owned. Braking performance will be influenced by tires, of course, but in 5000 miles, I've been very happy with just about every aspect of this car, including the brakes.

Drive the car, decide for yourself....magazine tests are always subject to variables that make the numbers approximations at best. It's no way to make a decision about a car....
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:46 AM
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2008 C350WZ
Ummm, why don't you think the OP's analysis of the merc's poor braking is accurate? Do you have numbers?

Or are you a Merc fanboy?

Yes, the OP had a seat-of-the-pants impression, but this doesn't necessarily mean its wrong. And its unfair to ask if s/he had numbers to back it up, do you think s/he is out on a skidpad with a tape measure? Or are you so convinced of Mercedes superiority that you just cannot believe it to be accurate? And this despite all the head scratching that Mercedes REDUCED the size of the rotors on the new C Class from the old C Class?

Well, to separate the reasonable who may like a car but realize it has warts from the fanboyz who think it is supreme and absolute, the following data is taken from road and track's website:

Merc 350sport braking from 60mph: 135feet from 80mph: 241 feet

To compare from competition:
07 BMW 335i from 60mph: 119 feet, from 80 mph:210 feet
07 infiniti g35 sport from 60 mph: 120, from 80mph 208
07 Acura TL: from 60 mph: 117, from 80mph 214
07 Lexus IS350 from 60 mph: 126, from 80mph: 219

Think those cars are lighter, or perhaps not in the same league as Merc? Well, how about a big boat and a really heavy big boat as it is a hybrid luxo-cruiser with all those lithium Ion batteries:

08 Lexus LS600hl, frlom 60mph: 120, from 80mph: 216

Is the lexus too luxo and they cheated by maybe putting on big brakes? Well, how about a pedestrian car?

08 Honda Accord Coupe, from 60mph: 132, from 80mph 242

Or perhaps a sporty econobox for half price?

08 Subaru Imprezza wrx, from 60mph: 124, from 80mph 210

What's that, the Subie is the famed WRX, even at half-price? Okay, how about within the same family, same parents, larger and heavier?

07 Mercedes e350sport: from 60mph: 129, from 80mph 226


OKAY, so I think its fair to say that either Road and Track is full of donkey dung, or you all just got Pwn'd by the OP. Face it, the c350 (and presumably the c300) is a bit of a pig. It is okay, we still like it (well, perhaps less now), but no need to become a fanboy and assume it is the best thing since sliced bread. Mercedes hasn't been engineering the way it used to, it is more brand marketing now than ever (for proof, why no 4matic with 350 engine? Canada has it, europe has it). Why remove the down-anngling of side mirrors when put in reverse, or the removal of memory seats, if it isn't a result of market research without regard to actual enginerring superiority. Why reduce the size of the brakes from the previous model if you're going for the "best". Here's a clue: they ain't. Again, its still a nice car, just not the next coming of the Mitsubishi Evo X, or whatever other performance automobile you want to insert here.

-777
  1. the braking distance values you so diligently gathered aren't indicative of CONTROL and "feedback" while under heavy braking.
  2. Original Poster indicated W204's braking is "poor" and asked why it is so. With a bit of common sense, even when compared with the braking distances you listed, it is not poor.

Chill. I don't think anyone has yet said in this thread the W204 is best, nor flawless.

Last edited by qwerty1024; 10-16-2007 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
[<<That's the information the marketing group gave out at the event.It is a "adaptive" brake system that had no problem stopping the vehicle.>>

You actually have no idea what brake-by-wire means, do you? Nor anything about the SBC debacle?
Yes and yes.I didn't research the braking system because I had no intention on purchasing the car.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:54 AM
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Merc Fanboys Unite!

Wow, the belief in all things Merc is impressive.

Anyway, it is nice to see that at least some people udnerstand this is an emotional purchase, but not one fully supported by objective foundation. This is what I was trying to show when I came to the rescue of the OP who was about to be burned at the stake as a heretic for questioning Merc's supremecy. Look, the C-Class is a bit piggy, and in c300 4matic trim ever much more so. We like the cars, that's why we're here, but don't sell me that this thing is tops when it ain't or disparage others for questioning the integrity of the car. (And yes, a 10-15% deficit in braking against competitors is poor in this segment, imho. Don't try to justify it.)

-777
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:40 AM
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2008 C350WZ
Originally Posted by 430752 View Post
Wow, the belief in all things Merc is impressive.

Anyway, it is nice to see that at least some people udnerstand this is an emotional purchase, but not one fully supported by objective foundation. This is what I was trying to show when I came to the rescue of the OP who was about to be burned at the stake as a heretic for questioning Merc's supremecy. Look, the C-Class is a bit piggy, and in c300 4matic trim ever much more so. We like the cars, that's why we're here, but don't sell me that this thing is tops when it ain't or disparage others for questioning the integrity of the car. (And yes, a 10-15% deficit in braking against competitors is poor in this segment, imho. Don't try to justify it.)

-777
regarding the 10-15% braking deficit (or whatever it may be), I think I know how to compensate for: there's always that funny, left-most foot pedal ("parking brake") that I could stomp on! (sadly, I don't have a clutch pedal to keep me occupied anways).
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:16 AM
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I posted this because I think it is crazy that MB advertises the brakes on the 08C like they are world class and they are not. The clk63 black does have world class brakes.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:31 AM
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Waiting for W204 Facelift
comparison tests

why in all Braking comparison tests, bmw finish 1 over MB

Last edited by ismeto; 10-16-2007 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ismeto View Post
why in all Braking comparison tests, bmw finish 1 over MB
.... maybe because the bmw has a better braking system and therefore outbrakes the w204? Evidently so (according to published tests). Yet it does not mean the W204 has a poor braking system.

Or maybe I'm too easely enthused by a car model of 2008 compared to my 8 year old VR6 from which I've just bailed.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:00 PM
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On a personal note, I had to do a panic stop this morning ... completely my fault, I was busy fiddling with the the sat radio and looking at the screen instead of the road ... and while the car stopped quickly there was mad ABS chatter as the LF first started to lock and then the RR followed suit (in the middle of a mild bend). Only doing 35mph so plenty of time to get stopped. But it was far from awe inspiring. My e90 would've thrown me against the belt.

Brakes themselves felt plenty strong, but my guess is the contisport 3's aren't the best tire for damp, cold, panic stops?

Could be too that the 'pre-safe' ... is that what the braking system that automatically throws in full braking assistance if it senses a panic stop? ... kicked in and triggered the ABS.

Either way, I'm not used to triggering ABS at 35mph, I'm used to the car just hunkering down and stopping. But the car did stop in a very short distance.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:08 PM
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2008 C350
The W204 breaks are new to the C and a carry over from the larger E class breaks. Although the brakes are sound (and actually good) there are bound to be some minor developmental issues with the MY08 C brakes. MB will get them straightened out in the coming years.

Those of us with 08's are just going to have to get used to being the break testers.....almost scary if you think about it!
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:02 PM
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a quarter mile at a time
Originally Posted by stormwind View Post
The numbers listed for C350 above are from Road and Track. The stopping distances of 135 ft from 60 mph are true but people failed to realize that test car are equiped with crappy all season Continental tires. Put on some Max performance tires like Eagle F1 GS-D3 and you'll see the stopping distance drop by 15 feet or more.
bingo! The brakes on this car are more than capable to stop it but all-season tires just aren't going to be able to provide the grip needed.
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:02 PM
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I think that the brakes are very good. I have not taken it to the track but in everyday driving they feel very similar to my 335i.

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from Nebraska
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:32 PM
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So is it the consensus of the group that it is the tires not the bakes making the stopping difference. I can not tell you how many times in my life I have needed to slam on the brakes and just been inches from a wreck….When I upgrade cars my major concern is safety. Thanks for the many comments…
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