Why is the braking performance so poor?
10-16-2007, 06:35 PM
#26
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'14 CLA 45
So is it the consensus of the group that it is the tires not the bakes making the stopping difference. I can not tell you how many times in my life I have needed to slam on the brakes and just been inches from a wreck….When I upgrade cars my major concern is safety. Thanks for the many comments…
just upgrade to real brembos
would be a nice start for moding
10-16-2007, 06:40 PM
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2008 C350WZ
I thought all W204s came with the the same Michelin Pro series tires - that's what my mine came with (the standard 17" 6-spoke AMG). Are these any different than the Continentals?
10-16-2007, 06:43 PM
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2007 E63
Ummm, why don't you think the OP's analysis of the merc's poor braking is accurate? Do you have numbers?
Or are you a Merc fanboy?
Yes, the OP had a seat-of-the-pants impression, but this doesn't necessarily mean its wrong. And its unfair to ask if s/he had numbers to back it up, do you think s/he is out on a skidpad with a tape measure? Or are you so convinced of Mercedes superiority that you just cannot believe it to be accurate? And this despite all the head scratching that Mercedes REDUCED the size of the rotors on the new C Class from the old C Class?
Well, to separate the reasonable who may like a car but realize it has warts from the fanboyz who think it is supreme and absolute, the following data is taken from road and track's website:
Merc 350sport braking from 60mph: 135feet from 80mph: 241 feet
To compare from competition:
07 BMW 335i from 60mph: 119 feet, from 80 mph:210 feet
07 infiniti g35 sport from 60 mph: 120, from 80mph 208
07 Acura TL: from 60 mph: 117, from 80mph 214
07 Lexus IS350 from 60 mph: 126, from 80mph: 219
Think those cars are lighter, or perhaps not in the same league as Merc? Well, how about a big boat and a really heavy big boat as it is a hybrid luxo-cruiser with all those lithium Ion batteries:
08 Lexus LS600hl, frlom 60mph: 120, from 80mph: 216
Is the lexus too luxo and they cheated by maybe putting on big brakes? Well, how about a pedestrian car?
08 Honda Accord Coupe, from 60mph: 132, from 80mph 242
Or perhaps a sporty econobox for half price?
08 Subaru Imprezza wrx, from 60mph: 124, from 80mph 210
What's that, the Subie is the famed WRX, even at half-price? Okay, how about within the same family, same parents, larger and heavier?
07 Mercedes e350sport: from 60mph: 129, from 80mph 226
OKAY, so I think its fair to say that either Road and Track is full of donkey dung, or you all just got Pwn'd by the OP. Face it, the c350 (and presumably the c300) is a bit of a pig. It is okay, we still like it (well, perhaps less now), but no need to become a fanboy and assume it is the best thing since sliced bread. Mercedes hasn't been engineering the way it used to, it is more brand marketing now than ever (for proof, why no 4matic with 350 engine? Canada has it, europe has it). Why remove the down-anngling of side mirrors when put in reverse, or the removal of memory seats, if it isn't a result of market research without regard to actual enginerring superiority. Why reduce the size of the brakes from the previous model if you're going for the "best". Here's a clue: they ain't. Again, its still a nice car, just not the next coming of the Mitsubishi Evo X, or whatever other performance automobile you want to insert here.
-777
Or are you a Merc fanboy?
Yes, the OP had a seat-of-the-pants impression, but this doesn't necessarily mean its wrong. And its unfair to ask if s/he had numbers to back it up, do you think s/he is out on a skidpad with a tape measure? Or are you so convinced of Mercedes superiority that you just cannot believe it to be accurate? And this despite all the head scratching that Mercedes REDUCED the size of the rotors on the new C Class from the old C Class?
Well, to separate the reasonable who may like a car but realize it has warts from the fanboyz who think it is supreme and absolute, the following data is taken from road and track's website:
Merc 350sport braking from 60mph: 135feet from 80mph: 241 feet
To compare from competition:
07 BMW 335i from 60mph: 119 feet, from 80 mph:210 feet
07 infiniti g35 sport from 60 mph: 120, from 80mph 208
07 Acura TL: from 60 mph: 117, from 80mph 214
07 Lexus IS350 from 60 mph: 126, from 80mph: 219
Think those cars are lighter, or perhaps not in the same league as Merc? Well, how about a big boat and a really heavy big boat as it is a hybrid luxo-cruiser with all those lithium Ion batteries:
08 Lexus LS600hl, frlom 60mph: 120, from 80mph: 216
Is the lexus too luxo and they cheated by maybe putting on big brakes? Well, how about a pedestrian car?
08 Honda Accord Coupe, from 60mph: 132, from 80mph 242
Or perhaps a sporty econobox for half price?
08 Subaru Imprezza wrx, from 60mph: 124, from 80mph 210
What's that, the Subie is the famed WRX, even at half-price? Okay, how about within the same family, same parents, larger and heavier?
07 Mercedes e350sport: from 60mph: 129, from 80mph 226
OKAY, so I think its fair to say that either Road and Track is full of donkey dung, or you all just got Pwn'd by the OP. Face it, the c350 (and presumably the c300) is a bit of a pig. It is okay, we still like it (well, perhaps less now), but no need to become a fanboy and assume it is the best thing since sliced bread. Mercedes hasn't been engineering the way it used to, it is more brand marketing now than ever (for proof, why no 4matic with 350 engine? Canada has it, europe has it). Why remove the down-anngling of side mirrors when put in reverse, or the removal of memory seats, if it isn't a result of market research without regard to actual enginerring superiority. Why reduce the size of the brakes from the previous model if you're going for the "best". Here's a clue: they ain't. Again, its still a nice car, just not the next coming of the Mitsubishi Evo X, or whatever other performance automobile you want to insert here.
-777
It would be nice to see where the OP is coming from. Is he commenting on brake feel; poor brake pedal feel leads to us thinking it has has poor stopping performance (???), or was he commenting on the actual numbers compared to other cars in the same class? He never mentioned any of that.
10-16-2007, 07:05 PM
#29
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Tires
<<I thought all W204s came with the the same Michelin Pro series tires - that's what my mine came with (the standard 17" 6-spoke AMG). Are these any different than the Continentals?>>
As long as we are reading a long list of unsubstantiated claims here, I'll bet my C300 Lux with it's Bridgestone RE050A tires on 18s (watched them being mounted today for tomorrow's delivery) will out-brake and out-corner either of the OE tire brands. Yes, it's the tire patch that stops the car.
As long as we are reading a long list of unsubstantiated claims here, I'll bet my C300 Lux with it's Bridgestone RE050A tires on 18s (watched them being mounted today for tomorrow's delivery) will out-brake and out-corner either of the OE tire brands. Yes, it's the tire patch that stops the car.
10-16-2007, 07:38 PM
#30
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a quarter mile at a time
<<I thought all W204s came with the the same Michelin Pro series tires - that's what my mine came with (the standard 17" 6-spoke AMG). Are these any different than the Continentals?>>
As long as we are reading a long list of unsubstantiated claims here, I'll bet my C300 Lux with it's Bridgestone RE050A tires on 18s (watched them being mounted today for tomorrow's delivery) will out-brake and out-corner either of the OE tire brands. Yes, it's the tire patch that stops the car.
As long as we are reading a long list of unsubstantiated claims here, I'll bet my C300 Lux with it's Bridgestone RE050A tires on 18s (watched them being mounted today for tomorrow's delivery) will out-brake and out-corner either of the OE tire brands. Yes, it's the tire patch that stops the car.
Almost all modern brakes are more than capable of stopping a car. The proof is if you hit your brakes as hard as you can, ABS will kick in to prevent lockup, hence the overall braking power is greater than the grip of the tires to the pavement. Tires that provide greater traction under braking will lead to shorter stops.Larger rotors allow brakes to operate at peak performance for a greater amount of time. The heavier and more massive rotor is able to absorb more heat, therefore more stops can be done before brake fade is experienced.
All season tires will not have the same braking traction as a good high performance summer tire will. The 2008 C-Class, with better tires should perform equally or better than all of the cars listed above when it comes to braking.
10-16-2007, 07:47 PM
#31
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c300
Had the RFT version as OE on my 330i. Great tire for wet braking. Not so good for wet/cold cornering; anything under about 60F and they were like blocks of granite ... but they're extremely progressive on break away. They're so gentle you feel like you could recover from just about anything. Normally I don't condone much in the way of slip angles on public roads but there was just no getting around it with those. Hopefully the non-RFT versions are better? 
Replaced those with Michelin PS2s. I was never under any condition able to get those to engage ABS no matter how hard I stopped. And they had monster grip dry, wet or cold.
So far I like the lateral grip of the Contisport3s and the ride quality, but I'm not too impressed with the noise level or the stopping power.
Replaced those with Michelin PS2s. I was never under any condition able to get those to engage ABS no matter how hard I stopped. And they had monster grip dry, wet or cold.
So far I like the lateral grip of the Contisport3s and the ride quality, but I'm not too impressed with the noise level or the stopping power.
10-16-2007, 10:12 PM
#32
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Here's another grouping of braking results (70-0 & all sedans) from Car and Driver's website:
Acura TL - 189
Audi A4 - 180
Merc C350 - 170
Infiniti G35 - 162
BMW 328 - 160
The C isn't the class leader, but I wouldn't say it ranked poor.
Acura TL - 189
Audi A4 - 180
Merc C350 - 170
Infiniti G35 - 162
BMW 328 - 160
The C isn't the class leader, but I wouldn't say it ranked poor.
10-16-2007, 10:46 PM
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SLK300, GLK350, owned:C300, CLK 430, ML320 200D, 240D
Give me a brake.
Here is was Edmunds wrote about braking. 6 feet difference. Give me a brake dude. 
I would not consider this poor by any meens, they even consider it excellent. You probably can not even blink an eye that quick.
Make It Stop, Make It Stop
Hammering the brake pedal from 60 mph again showed the BMW to be the more capable car. Both cars are equipped with four-wheel discs and ABS with electronic brakeforce distribution, brake assist, brake drying and hill-start assist — some of these features are new to the C-Class for 2008. All four discs on the BMW, however, are larger in diameter than those of the C-Class. The test results reveal one excellent stop from the C350 at 118 feet, and one outstanding stop from the BMW 335i of just 112 feet.
The brakes of both cars proved utterly free of fade, even during our tortuous canyon runs through Malibu. When it came to city driving, though, the BMW's brakes exhibited an odd, sticky, on-off behavior below 5 mph that sometimes made it difficult to come to a halt smoothly. On the other hand, the Mercedes' brake pedal has a little too much stroke built into its action.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...4/pageNumber=1
I would not consider this poor by any meens, they even consider it excellent. You probably can not even blink an eye that quick.Make It Stop, Make It Stop
Hammering the brake pedal from 60 mph again showed the BMW to be the more capable car. Both cars are equipped with four-wheel discs and ABS with electronic brakeforce distribution, brake assist, brake drying and hill-start assist — some of these features are new to the C-Class for 2008. All four discs on the BMW, however, are larger in diameter than those of the C-Class. The test results reveal one excellent stop from the C350 at 118 feet, and one outstanding stop from the BMW 335i of just 112 feet.
The brakes of both cars proved utterly free of fade, even during our tortuous canyon runs through Malibu. When it came to city driving, though, the BMW's brakes exhibited an odd, sticky, on-off behavior below 5 mph that sometimes made it difficult to come to a halt smoothly. On the other hand, the Mercedes' brake pedal has a little too much stroke built into its action.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...4/pageNumber=1
10-16-2007, 11:28 PM
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E500
So is it the consensus of the group that it is the tires not the bakes making the stopping difference. I can not tell you how many times in my life I have needed to slam on the brakes and just been inches from a wreck….When I upgrade cars my major concern is safety. Thanks for the many comments…
Luckly the car came with Great brakes, so don't cheap out on the tires.
Last edited by stormwind; 10-16-2007 at 11:34 PM.
10-16-2007, 11:33 PM
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E500
Here is was Edmunds wrote about braking. 6 feet difference. Give me a brake dude. I would not consider this poor by any meens, they even consider it excellent. You probably can not even blink an eye that quick.
Make It Stop, Make It Stop
Hammering the brake pedal from 60 mph again showed the BMW to be the more capable car. Both cars are equipped with four-wheel discs and ABS with electronic brakeforce distribution, brake assist, brake drying and hill-start assist — some of these features are new to the C-Class for 2008. All four discs on the BMW, however, are larger in diameter than those of the C-Class. The test results reveal one excellent stop from the C350 at 118 feet, and one outstanding stop from the BMW 335i of just 112 feet.
The brakes of both cars proved utterly free of fade, even during our tortuous canyon runs through Malibu. When it came to city driving, though, the BMW's brakes exhibited an odd, sticky, on-off behavior below 5 mph that sometimes made it difficult to come to a halt smoothly. On the other hand, the Mercedes' brake pedal has a little too much stroke built into its action.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...4/pageNumber=1
I would not consider this poor by any meens, they even consider it excellent. You probably can not even blink an eye that quick.Make It Stop, Make It Stop
Hammering the brake pedal from 60 mph again showed the BMW to be the more capable car. Both cars are equipped with four-wheel discs and ABS with electronic brakeforce distribution, brake assist, brake drying and hill-start assist — some of these features are new to the C-Class for 2008. All four discs on the BMW, however, are larger in diameter than those of the C-Class. The test results reveal one excellent stop from the C350 at 118 feet, and one outstanding stop from the BMW 335i of just 112 feet.
The brakes of both cars proved utterly free of fade, even during our tortuous canyon runs through Malibu. When it came to city driving, though, the BMW's brakes exhibited an odd, sticky, on-off behavior below 5 mph that sometimes made it difficult to come to a halt smoothly. On the other hand, the Mercedes' brake pedal has a little too much stroke built into its action.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...4/pageNumber=1
Hopefully the article will provide information on what tires were used on the test cars. Chances are the C350 were equiped with ZR rated tires, amazing how a good tire will bring a car to life isn't it?
10-17-2007, 12:41 AM
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Bas
<<Could be too that the 'pre-safe' ... is that what the braking system that automatically throws in full braking assistance if it senses a panic stop? ... kicked in and triggered the ABS. >>
You are referring to Brake Assist (BAS) which has been around for quite awhile.
We don't get the full Pre-Safe in the US market.
You are referring to Brake Assist (BAS) which has been around for quite awhile.
We don't get the full Pre-Safe in the US market.
