Any difference between Germany and South Africa builds?
07-29-2008, 02:06 AM
#77
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N. California
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 Arctic White C300 Sport 6M
Sidenote: I noticed that you are in the SF Bay Area. Check out the following sites for info on an upcoming NorCal meet on 8/10. Some will be coming from SF, so you may want to meet up and caravan over.
Background (original meet had to be cancelled, thanks to the cops):
http://www.mymbonline.com/forum/view...f66f0c85675cab
The REAL thread (new location of the meet):
http://www.mymbonline.com/forum/view...f66f0c85675cab
MODS: If I'm violating another forum rule by posting the above, please let me know. Or just delete this post. I like being able to PM/search.
07-29-2008, 01:22 PM
#78
Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-30-2008, 01:20 AM
#80
Senior Member
"Do they make the S, CLS, E, or AMG's in South Africa plant? No...? I didn't think so. There's a reason for that... Mercedes implemented the SA plant to meet the ever increasing demand for the C-Class models."
MB say they have been in SA for 54 yrs, so, long before the C. In 1990 MB presented Nelson Mandela with an SA built S class.
Still, I agree its nice to think our fine German machines came from Germany, even if the realty is that it was built by "guestworkers" Bremen.
07-30-2008, 12:30 PM
#81
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chino Hills, CA
Posts: 3,809
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Mercedes C300 Sport, BMW 745Li, VW Mk6 Golf TDI
I think we'd all like to just think in our mind that Hondas come from Japan, Fords come from US, and Mercedes come from Germany.
07-30-2008, 01:42 PM
#82
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2004 TL; 2004 S2000; 2009 C63; 2009 ML350
It does say BMW is best in SA, but its a pretty confusing release, because the heading and last two paras say MB is best.
"Do they make the S, CLS, E, or AMG's in South Africa plant? No...? I didn't think so. There's a reason for that... Mercedes implemented the SA plant to meet the ever increasing demand for the C-Class models."
MB say they have been in SA for 54 yrs, so, long before the C. In 1990 MB presented Nelson Mandela with an SA built S class.
Still, I agree its nice to think our fine German machines came from Germany, even if the realty is that it was built by "guestworkers" Bremen.
"Do they make the S, CLS, E, or AMG's in South Africa plant? No...? I didn't think so. There's a reason for that... Mercedes implemented the SA plant to meet the ever increasing demand for the C-Class models."
MB say they have been in SA for 54 yrs, so, long before the C. In 1990 MB presented Nelson Mandela with an SA built S class.
Still, I agree its nice to think our fine German machines came from Germany, even if the realty is that it was built by "guestworkers" Bremen.
07-31-2008, 01:17 AM
#84
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kingston Jamaica
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2007 Avalanche LT, 2009 C300
Isn't it a little arrogant and perhaps ignorant to assume that the German-built vehicles would be of a higher quality than the South African assembled cars? J.D. Powers has ranked the BMW plant in South Africa consistently among the best in the world, and it would be Mercedes' shortcoming if the quality was not equal. If there is one group of car owners that would be expected to be more educated about the world (not measured by the number of designations in front or after your name) it would be benz owners.
While reading this thread I had to constantly check to see if I hadn't inadvertently strayed onto a F150 forum...
While reading this thread I had to constantly check to see if I hadn't inadvertently strayed onto a F150 forum...
07-31-2008, 05:36 PM
#86
MBWorld Fanatic!
09-08-2008, 06:45 PM
#87
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 648
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
C-300, XC70, Wrangler
I had the chance today to directly compare a S. Africa build to my German build.
- The SA had Conti's and it was a wee bit softer ride than my Michelins.
- The SA had plenty of orange peel in the paint .... not a metallic color, maybe that's why?
- It took just a wee bit of time to adjust for driving position, then it felt like my car does. In driving it, I couldn't tell any difference between the two cars
- Okay, I lied. The sticker on the right side of the windshield was higher up than in my car ... (it's different!)
- The SA got about the same mpg on the same route as my German build does.
From this limited experience (about 40 miles of driving, mixed freeway, city streets, and suburbia) I couldn't tell any difference between the builds.
So, my assessment here has to be that it's a MB and that's sufficient.
- The SA had Conti's and it was a wee bit softer ride than my Michelins.
- The SA had plenty of orange peel in the paint .... not a metallic color, maybe that's why?
- It took just a wee bit of time to adjust for driving position, then it felt like my car does. In driving it, I couldn't tell any difference between the two cars
- Okay, I lied. The sticker on the right side of the windshield was higher up than in my car ... (it's different!)
- The SA got about the same mpg on the same route as my German build does.
From this limited experience (about 40 miles of driving, mixed freeway, city streets, and suburbia) I couldn't tell any difference between the builds.
So, my assessment here has to be that it's a MB and that's sufficient.
09-09-2008, 08:37 PM
#88
Super Member
In my opinion - whatever keeps the cost down enough so I can keep affording these C-classes makes me happy :-). If utilizing a SA plant will do that, so be it!
- Eric
09-10-2008, 07:44 PM
#89
Super Moderator
Is there any difference in build quality between Germany and South Africa plants? I am trying to make a change to my order and they are telling me that I can only get a SA build, unless I want to wait until october for a germany build...?
He also said 90% of the 2009 c class will be built in SA.
He also said 90% of the 2009 c class will be built in SA.
The SA plant has built many of the top models over time and it's quality is frequently rated better than Germany - same goes for BMW & Audi. It's also responsible for engineering out problems. Our W203s don't give half the trouble your German ones do because the RHD models got sorted here.
A lot of
has been spoken on this thread. Please read the linked thread so I don't have to repeat myself. As I've said - the reality is that the best you can hope for is "assembled in Germany"Read this
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/258382-south-african-made.html
09-11-2008, 12:31 AM
#91
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 BMW 335i Coupe (Six-speed Manual)
Yes - the SA plant has the contract - The SA plant opened in 1948 & has been wholly owned by DB since 1966.
The SA plant has built many of the top models over time and it's quality is frequently rated better than Germany - same goes for BMW & Audi. It's also responsible for engineering out problems. Our W203s don't give half the trouble your German ones do because the RHD models got sorted here.
A lot of has been spoken on this thread. Please read the linked thread so I don't have to repeat myself. As I've said - the reality is that the best you can hope for is "assembled in Germany"
Read this
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258382
The SA plant has built many of the top models over time and it's quality is frequently rated better than Germany - same goes for BMW & Audi. It's also responsible for engineering out problems. Our W203s don't give half the trouble your German ones do because the RHD models got sorted here.
A lot of
has been spoken on this thread. Please read the linked thread so I don't have to repeat myself. As I've said - the reality is that the best you can hope for is "assembled in Germany"Read this
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258382
A well-built car is a well-built car. Well, maybe not from China.
09-11-2008, 08:17 AM
#92
Super Moderator
"Assembled in Germany" doesn't mean anything (I'm sure you know it among others). That's what the sticker said on my car... and a coworker happened to point out a big gap on the right side of my trunk today...
A well-built car is a well-built car. Well, maybe not from China.
A well-built car is a well-built car. Well, maybe not from China.
Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
You require substantial communication training! I withdraw this if English is not your home language
To start with if you want high end Audio/Theatre gear you should buy American. It's the finest available with a few exceptions.
Regarding made in Germany - and this applies to Kar don's post as well regarding component suppliers. The best you can hope for is ASSEMBLED IN GERMANY. Many, many of the components in a modern Benz are made in Eastern European countries such as Poland for cost reasons. The same applies to Audi & BMW. Even Audi's Lambo Gallardo has components made in Poland. I know suppliers to the plant.
So get real people - This is globalisation in action
Could not resist posting this. See pic of Genuine MB W203 headlight assembly I saw yesterday which reinforces my comment above.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 09-11-2008 at 10:38 AM.
09-11-2008, 11:09 AM
#93
Super Moderator
I had the chance today to directly compare a S. Africa build to my German build.
- The SA had Conti's and it was a wee bit softer ride than my Michelins.
- The SA had plenty of orange peel in the paint .... not a metallic color, maybe that's why?
- It took just a wee bit of time to adjust for driving position, then it felt like my car does. In driving it, I couldn't tell any difference between the two cars
- Okay, I lied. The sticker on the right side of the windshield was higher up than in my car ... (it's different!)
- The SA got about the same mpg on the same route as my German build does.
From this limited experience (about 40 miles of driving, mixed freeway, city streets, and suburbia) I couldn't tell any difference between the builds.
So, my assessment here has to be that it's a MB and that's sufficient.
- The SA had Conti's and it was a wee bit softer ride than my Michelins.
- The SA had plenty of orange peel in the paint .... not a metallic color, maybe that's why?
- It took just a wee bit of time to adjust for driving position, then it felt like my car does. In driving it, I couldn't tell any difference between the two cars
- Okay, I lied. The sticker on the right side of the windshield was higher up than in my car ... (it's different!)
- The SA got about the same mpg on the same route as my German build does.
From this limited experience (about 40 miles of driving, mixed freeway, city streets, and suburbia) I couldn't tell any difference between the builds.
So, my assessment here has to be that it's a MB and that's sufficient.
Believe me the Conti's are not as good as your Michelins - note on the sidewall it says "engineered in Germany" - Well the more they wear the noisier they get - removed mine at 16000 Kms and replaced with Michelin Pilot Exalto PE 2s - in a different class!
This orange peel issue keeps coming up regarding paint. Well go and have a good look at a new German built S Class and you will see it's also full of orange peel.
The reason is the new environmentally friendly, carcinogen free solvent paint & process, introduced in Germany to meet the latest European regulations.
Mercedes have spent yet another fortune on the East London plant and part of that was a new paintshop to use the new technology, environmentally friendly painting process.
So guess what? South African production Mercs now have orange peel paintwork just like German ones. My older South African car has zero orange peel because it was built using the old technology paints. Chinese cars like Chery are garbage but they have beautiful paintwork because they use even older technology paint.
09-11-2008, 11:26 AM
#94
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1999 210 4matic / 2011 W204 C300 sport
i dont see anything wrong with other countries building mercedes for marketing purpose , but i belive what people saying here is , if you buy a german product , you expect it to be build in the orginal country . i think thats all ppl are saying
09-11-2008, 11:43 AM
#95
Super Moderator
People are querying quality, which they are entitled to do, and showing prejudice that is unfounded and I am placing matters in context.
As I said in the other thread - "You can have a W204 built in Germany by Turkish labour or you can have one built in South Africa by South African Labour" Components come from all over the place - many from Eastern European & South African suppliers.
The highly respected Toyota/Lexus - Now the largest manufacturer in the world, gets every component from the cheapest supply point around the globe
that meets their standards.
09-11-2008, 02:40 PM
#97
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jacksonville Florida, USA
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C300 Sport
Every Apple product is assembled in China but I don't see anyone complaining about their iPhones / iPod. Its the trust in the brand that matters. No matter where a product is built, it is the company's Quality Control division that is responsible for checking if an individual product is worthy of putting the company logo on it.
09-11-2008, 06:52 PM
#98
Super Moderator
That is most certainly NOT what I'm saying !! Please don't play the race card on this forum !!!! All I'm talking about is global fact. I'm proud of our local plant without prejudice. I'm an **** Virgo and If we made crap I would say so and not own one of their products.
09-11-2008, 07:00 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 396
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 c350 SG - 2004 c240 Wagon BS
My complaint is not racially based. It is economically based.
The only reason I think a German car demands a higher price than an American car is the cost of labor in Germany is much higher.
Then they send off their assembly to a lower cost nation yet they charge the same price to the customer.
If they are paying German labor rates for South African labor then I will shut up and applaud MBz.
Somehow I feel they are NOT paying German labor rates.
The only reason I think a German car demands a higher price than an American car is the cost of labor in Germany is much higher.
Then they send off their assembly to a lower cost nation yet they charge the same price to the customer.
If they are paying German labor rates for South African labor then I will shut up and applaud MBz.
Somehow I feel they are NOT paying German labor rates.
09-11-2008, 07:08 PM
#100
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Scottsdale, Arizonai
Posts: 2,719
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'85 190E 2.3-16 '99 C280 '11 GLK350
While somewhat clever, that has to be one of the most specious arguments about automotive manufacturing that I've come across.
Daimler's pricing is much more complex than merely labor costs. To argue otherwise would demonstate a complete lack of understanding of the economics of the automotive industry.
Daimler's pricing is much more complex than merely labor costs. To argue otherwise would demonstate a complete lack of understanding of the economics of the automotive industry.
