Does ANYONE like the W204 better than the W203?
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
South Africa has the contract to build W204 for the US market with minor top up from Germany. Most US W204's come from SA & will until 2014/15 when production of the W205 moves to Tuscaloosa USA. Then SA's production will help with Asian demand.
The East London plant in SA has just received the JD Powers top quality ward again - for producing the best quality of all Benz plants. The SA plant has frequently won this. Benz plants in Germany use cheap Turkish labour & it shows.
Early W203's that were "virtually" endurance tested by computer instead of on the road were troublesome vehicles - This was mainly 2000 & 2001 models with big improvements from mid 2002 onward. The E class of this era was also troublesome.
South African built W203's never gave the trouble that US cars from Brazil & Germany did.
Our W203 has had 2 castor bushes (a known problem that persists on the W204), One 5 cent tranny plug washer to stop an oil weep & one stoplight lamp in 7 years. Pretty good I would say. The vehicle is as new & dead silent - not one squeak or rattle & appox 47% SA content by weight.
Our South African built C350 Elegance W204 has been totally trouble free - 2008 model. Zero repairs - only standard servicing.
The East London plant in SA has just received the JD Powers top quality ward again - for producing the best quality of all Benz plants. The SA plant has frequently won this. Benz plants in Germany use cheap Turkish labour & it shows.
Early W203's that were "virtually" endurance tested by computer instead of on the road were troublesome vehicles - This was mainly 2000 & 2001 models with big improvements from mid 2002 onward. The E class of this era was also troublesome.
South African built W203's never gave the trouble that US cars from Brazil & Germany did.
Our W203 has had 2 castor bushes (a known problem that persists on the W204), One 5 cent tranny plug washer to stop an oil weep & one stoplight lamp in 7 years. Pretty good I would say. The vehicle is as new & dead silent - not one squeak or rattle & appox 47% SA content by weight.
Our South African built C350 Elegance W204 has been totally trouble free - 2008 model. Zero repairs - only standard servicing.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Sep 6, 2010 at 09:34 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder - thank god.The W204 is a darn good car - I've never been wild about the styling but still like the car or we would not have bought one.
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From: Australia
White w203 C200K Elegance
yep. popular topic.
The main problem I had with my w203 was the stupid vent clicking (slipping cogs) noise which I was told they never fixed in production, because they used plastic cogs when metal ones were needed? Anyway I got mine replaced under warranty with metal ones, never had a problem since. My w203 is made in South Africa.
Also the plastic grab handle broke randomly one day with my wife closing the door like every other day?
The main problem I had with my w203 was the stupid vent clicking (slipping cogs) noise which I was told they never fixed in production, because they used plastic cogs when metal ones were needed? Anyway I got mine replaced under warranty with metal ones, never had a problem since. My w203 is made in South Africa.
Also the plastic grab handle broke randomly one day with my wife closing the door like every other day?
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I presume that you are in Australia, SA or similar. The stepper motor arms were a German design mess-up & were redesigned in SA. The new ones are not metal they are plastic but strengthened & don't fail. They are now made in Germany - see part number
If your door pull broke it's still German or Brazilian. SA redesigned them too. What year is your car? Both of these were common problems on early cars.
Stepper motor arms:
Top old broken - Bottom two new design
If your door pull broke it's still German or Brazilian. SA redesigned them too. What year is your car? Both of these were common problems on early cars.
Stepper motor arms:
Top old broken - Bottom two new design
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Sep 6, 2010 at 10:49 PM.
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From: Australia
White w203 C200K Elegance
Yes sorry you are correct they made some harden plastic version, and yes your pictures are spot on, the exact part that were broken. Did they ever make the cars with the harden plastic off the production line? or was this a post production line fix? I was told it wasn't fixed till 2007?
My car is a White C200 Elegance MY2003.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yes. They were replaced in production about mid 2003. Your Aus dealer is talking crap. My car came new in October 2003 with them. I was on assignment with Caltex to Asia Pacific based in Sydney & ordered my car new from Aus 3 months before I moved back to SA.
You must just have missed them.
After problems started showing up in the W203 they were endurance tested in South Africa, Namibia & Norway (for cold weather testing). Much the same as the W204 was from scratch - Benz learned their lesson with the 203. SA was given HVAC stepper arms, pull handles, the rattle & squeak kit development & a whole host of issues to fix. Germany did the rest like A/C compressor etc. The W203 was launched late into the US and never really up spec'ed like SA cars. Very few had full leather & BiX, Parktronic etc - never offered Parktronic stateside. Early cars from Brazil & Germany to the US were a nightmare. We were lucky in SA - things got fixed here very quickly.
The only thing that took a long time for Benz to get fixed was the M271 engine camshaft position sensor oil leak into the engine harness problem.
You must just have missed them.
After problems started showing up in the W203 they were endurance tested in South Africa, Namibia & Norway (for cold weather testing). Much the same as the W204 was from scratch - Benz learned their lesson with the 203. SA was given HVAC stepper arms, pull handles, the rattle & squeak kit development & a whole host of issues to fix. Germany did the rest like A/C compressor etc. The W203 was launched late into the US and never really up spec'ed like SA cars. Very few had full leather & BiX, Parktronic etc - never offered Parktronic stateside. Early cars from Brazil & Germany to the US were a nightmare. We were lucky in SA - things got fixed here very quickly.
The only thing that took a long time for Benz to get fixed was the M271 engine camshaft position sensor oil leak into the engine harness problem.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Sep 6, 2010 at 11:29 PM.
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From: Australia
White w203 C200K Elegance
Yeah must have missed them by a few months, matters not tho, I had the new ones fitted for free under warranty anyway.
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If you all think the W204 looks dated, what do you think about the Corolla-esque 3 series or the current A4 that looks almost the same as it's predecessor..or the buck-toothed TSX?
Like I said..MB still wins best styling in the class.
Like I said..MB still wins best styling in the class.
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From: Australia
White w203 C200K Elegance
true
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I love how it seems to be the same guys that continue to chime in about how the W203 is such a classic and in many ways superior Benz compared to the W204. The fact that the W203 was basically crap and an embarrassment to MB never really seems to come up. The athletic look of the W204 has apparently brought in a lot of new buyers that could never get past the "unsubstantial" look and feel of its predecessor.
As far as styling, MB was the first auto maker to use the "slash" taillight design and has been copied by many of the Asian brands. Just because others have copied this look and the fact that you personally don't like it certainly doesn't mean it is not well styled...to each his own I suppose.
And for those stating that you could take the badge off and not tell it isn't a Hyundai, Honda, etc, it seems you are simply just telling everyone you don't know what you are talking about anyhow. Take a look at the grill (with or without the Star) the fender blisters, the clamshell hood, the tumblehome, etc.
As far as styling, MB was the first auto maker to use the "slash" taillight design and has been copied by many of the Asian brands. Just because others have copied this look and the fact that you personally don't like it certainly doesn't mean it is not well styled...to each his own I suppose.
And for those stating that you could take the badge off and not tell it isn't a Hyundai, Honda, etc, it seems you are simply just telling everyone you don't know what you are talking about anyhow. Take a look at the grill (with or without the Star) the fender blisters, the clamshell hood, the tumblehome, etc.
what about the grille? Mercedes put the star on it because it mimics the old days where the performance "coupes" has them does it look right on a sedan? NO. it doesn't even really work for the C63 as well. what is a fender blister? I'm lost on that one. The clamshell hood is a fail. The gap it produces on the side is not that pleasing to look at especially on my white one. and what the hell is a tumblehome?
the taillight on the 204 is UGLY. plain and simple. there's no other way around it and the reason it is styled the way it is is for aerodynamic purpose.
the reason w203 had a lot of issue is because they're over-engineered and really a test bed for what made the W209 and R171 better. The W204 interior wise is pretty simple you have less trim on the door, less trim on the center console, simpler cup-holder, simpler ash tray, etc. there are less thing to go wrong. There is no rear bumper support for the rear of the W204 while there is a 3 piece bumper support for the W203. The side-marker on the US spec W203 is actually thought out and designed. The side-marker cut-out for the W204 is clearly a after thought leaving every bumper different because they're cut after the bumper is made.
Last edited by FrankW; Sep 7, 2010 at 04:45 AM.
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good job on talking out of your ***.
what about the grille? Mercedes put the star on it because it mimics the old days where the performance "coupes" has them does it look right on a sedan? NO. it doesn't even really work for the C63 as well. what is a fender blister? I'm lost on that one. The clamshell hood is a fail. The gap it produces on the side is not that pleasing to look at especially on my white one. and what the hell is a tumblehome?
the taillight on the 204 is UGLY. plain and simple. there's no other way around it and the reason it is styled the way it is is for aerodynamic purpose.
the reason w203 had a lot of issue is because they're over-engineered and really a test bed for what made the W209 and R171 better. The W204 interior wise is pretty simple you have less trim on the door, less trim on the center console, simpler cup-holder, simpler ash tray, etc. there are less thing to go wrong.
what about the grille? Mercedes put the star on it because it mimics the old days where the performance "coupes" has them does it look right on a sedan? NO. it doesn't even really work for the C63 as well. what is a fender blister? I'm lost on that one. The clamshell hood is a fail. The gap it produces on the side is not that pleasing to look at especially on my white one. and what the hell is a tumblehome?
the taillight on the 204 is UGLY. plain and simple. there's no other way around it and the reason it is styled the way it is is for aerodynamic purpose.
the reason w203 had a lot of issue is because they're over-engineered and really a test bed for what made the W209 and R171 better. The W204 interior wise is pretty simple you have less trim on the door, less trim on the center console, simpler cup-holder, simpler ash tray, etc. there are less thing to go wrong.
I'm glad to see someone else agree that the Benz "Grille Star" is WAY whored out, and shouldn't be on M-B SUV's, Sedans, Minivans, Trucks, etc. etc. It is a braggart type of attraction.
However, I do think technically it fits with the front end design of the W204 fine, "appropriateness" aside. And it doesn't bug me too much, maybe it's because my attention is focused to the horrid aftermarket Star-Grille replacements people put on M-B Sedans that aren't proportioned at all to work cohesively or smoothly with one.
Funny thing is, people got so used to wanting the Star grille because it was a more rare sight or whatever, and now EVERY M-B has the Star grille but the S and E-Class. Makes the Luxury grille more unique, in regards to the newer models, lol.
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W206 PHEV AMG
the B8 A4 S-line prestige looks a lot better than the W204 with AMG kit. option by option.
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LOL.
I'm glad to see someone else agree that the Benz "Grille Star" is WAY whored out, and shouldn't be on M-B SUV's, Sedans, Minivans, Trucks, etc. etc. It is a braggart type of attraction.
However, I do think technically it fits with the front end design of the W204 fine, "appropriateness" aside. And it doesn't bug me too much, maybe it's because my attention is focused to the horrid aftermarket Star-Grille replacements people put on M-B Sedans that aren't proportioned at all to work cohesively or smoothly with one.
Funny thing is, people got so used to wanting the Star grille because it was a more rare sight or whatever, and now EVERY M-B has the Star grille but the S and E-Class. Makes the Luxury grille more unique, in regards to the newer models, lol.
I'm glad to see someone else agree that the Benz "Grille Star" is WAY whored out, and shouldn't be on M-B SUV's, Sedans, Minivans, Trucks, etc. etc. It is a braggart type of attraction.
However, I do think technically it fits with the front end design of the W204 fine, "appropriateness" aside. And it doesn't bug me too much, maybe it's because my attention is focused to the horrid aftermarket Star-Grille replacements people put on M-B Sedans that aren't proportioned at all to work cohesively or smoothly with one.
Funny thing is, people got so used to wanting the Star grille because it was a more rare sight or whatever, and now EVERY M-B has the Star grille but the S and E-Class. Makes the Luxury grille more unique, in regards to the newer models, lol.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
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the front
the rear
this is about as close to a side-by-side..LOL
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Haha, nice, thanks. Both definitely have their perks.
I saw a white '06-'07-ish W203, nicely equipped it seemed, nice stocker wheels, and the white-ish interior with the dark wood accents. VERY nice, and super elegant/classy, whilst also very sporty in that classic, yet "not trying too hard" way. Mid teens it was selling for, almost wanted to buy it for my GF to drive around, just so I can have it around, lol.
Both definitely have their perks.I saw a white '06-'07-ish W203, nicely equipped it seemed, nice stocker wheels, and the white-ish interior with the dark wood accents. VERY nice, and super elegant/classy, whilst also very sporty in that classic, yet "not trying too hard" way. Mid teens it was selling for, almost wanted to buy it for my GF to drive around, just so I can have it around, lol.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Frank - I like your car with the Elegance grill. I'm a traditionalist & that's why we got another Elegance
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2009 Arctic White/Black C350 with NAV pkg, ipod integration, 40% HO tint, and 18" 5-spoke AMG wheels
Personally, I really enjoyed my BMW coupe when I had it, the styling, handling, look, etc. But, when it came time to look at a sedan for family reasons, I really did not like the BMW 3-series sedans (new or old), they just lacked that sporty, aggressive style that I found with the W204 C350. Regarding the W204 vs W203, I cannot compare because I've only ever owned this one MB, but the W203's looks caught my eye before and I was interested in it, but not anywhere near as excited as the W204. As I pass the W203's on the road, I am more than happy I made the choice to purchase my W204, although the purchase was based on looks comparison alone.
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good job on talking out of your ***.
what about the grille? Mercedes put the star on it because it mimics the old days where the performance "coupes" has them does it look right on a sedan? NO. it doesn't even really work for the C63 as well. what is a fender blister? I'm lost on that one. The clamshell hood is a fail. The gap it produces on the side is not that pleasing to look at especially on my white one. and what the hell is a tumblehome?
the taillight on the 204 is UGLY. plain and simple. there's no other way around it and the reason it is styled the way it is is for aerodynamic purpose.
the reason w203 had a lot of issue is because they're over-engineered and really a test bed for what made the W209 and R171 better. The W204 interior wise is pretty simple you have less trim on the door, less trim on the center console, simpler cup-holder, simpler ash tray, etc. there are less thing to go wrong. There is no rear bumper support for the rear of the W204 while there is a 3 piece bumper support for the W203. The side-marker on the US spec W203 is actually thought out and designed. The side-marker cut-out for the W204 is clearly a after thought leaving every bumper different because they're cut after the bumper is made.
what about the grille? Mercedes put the star on it because it mimics the old days where the performance "coupes" has them does it look right on a sedan? NO. it doesn't even really work for the C63 as well. what is a fender blister? I'm lost on that one. The clamshell hood is a fail. The gap it produces on the side is not that pleasing to look at especially on my white one. and what the hell is a tumblehome?
the taillight on the 204 is UGLY. plain and simple. there's no other way around it and the reason it is styled the way it is is for aerodynamic purpose.
the reason w203 had a lot of issue is because they're over-engineered and really a test bed for what made the W209 and R171 better. The W204 interior wise is pretty simple you have less trim on the door, less trim on the center console, simpler cup-holder, simpler ash tray, etc. there are less thing to go wrong. There is no rear bumper support for the rear of the W204 while there is a 3 piece bumper support for the W203. The side-marker on the US spec W203 is actually thought out and designed. The side-marker cut-out for the W204 is clearly a after thought leaving every bumper different because they're cut after the bumper is made.
I never said I am unabashedly in love with my 204, especially the grill. I have always felt the sport grill is a bit over the top and even installed a luxury grill on mine. I didn’t quite like the look so ended up painting the silver slats on the sport grill black to smooth out the look and visually shrink that big *** center star. Looks better but still a bit ostentatious.
I actually like the smaller rear taillights and the fact that they follow function over form is actually a plus to me. I prefer them over the new W212 as those seem to look like the inside of the light got cut a little shorter for no particular reason…wouldn’t call it ugly as it works well for many.
And honestly, I think every Mercedes is a bit over engineered. It works most of the time but all those little engineered bits and pieces are opportunities for problems.
And of course we all agree about those lovely side markers.
Last edited by C300Sport; Sep 7, 2010 at 01:19 PM.
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Another round of ICE
Tumblehome is the degree of angle from the base of the A, B, and C pillars, essentially at the beltline, up to the roof. This is best visualized standing directly in front or behind a vehicle and noticing how the plane of the pillars is either more vertical or more angled toward the centerline from the beltline to the roof.
Last edited by Sportstick; Sep 7, 2010 at 09:45 AM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
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Fender blister is the raised sheetmetal which emanates from the wheel well opening.
Tumblehome is the degree of angle from the base of the A, B, and C pillars, essentially at the beltline, up to the roof. This is best visualized standing directly in front or behind a vehicle and noticing how the plane of the pillars is either more vertical or more angled toward the centerline from the beltline to the roof.
Tumblehome is the degree of angle from the base of the A, B, and C pillars, essentially at the beltline, up to the roof. This is best visualized standing directly in front or behind a vehicle and noticing how the plane of the pillars is either more vertical or more angled toward the centerline from the beltline to the roof.
The terminology is completely foreign to ROW.
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Another round of ICE
I learned that language from my prior colleagues in the Design Office...wonder how they work with their international colleagues...maybe that's why they had videoconferences...lots of hand gesturing!?
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Frank, just because I don’t agree with you and used a few terms you are not familiar with does not mean I am talking out of my ***, thanks.
I never said I am unabashedly in love with my 204, especially the grill. I have always felt the sport grill is a bit over the top and even installed a luxury grill on mine. I didn’t quite like the look so ended up painting the silver slats on the sport grill black to smooth out the look and visually shrink that big *** center star. Looks better but still a bit ostentatious.
I actually like the smaller rear taillights and the fact that they follow function over form is actually a plus to me. I prefer them over the new W212 as those seem to look like the inside of the light got cut a little shorter for no particular reason…wouldn’t call it ugly as it works well for many.
And honestly, I think every Mercedes is a bit over engineered. It works most of the time but all those little engineered bits and pieces are opportunities for problems.
And of course we all agree about those lovely side markers.
I never said I am unabashedly in love with my 204, especially the grill. I have always felt the sport grill is a bit over the top and even installed a luxury grill on mine. I didn’t quite like the look so ended up painting the silver slats on the sport grill black to smooth out the look and visually shrink that big *** center star. Looks better but still a bit ostentatious.
I actually like the smaller rear taillights and the fact that they follow function over form is actually a plus to me. I prefer them over the new W212 as those seem to look like the inside of the light got cut a little shorter for no particular reason…wouldn’t call it ugly as it works well for many.
And honestly, I think every Mercedes is a bit over engineered. It works most of the time but all those little engineered bits and pieces are opportunities for problems.
And of course we all agree about those lovely side markers.
other than the more modern design...a lot of the electronics as well as suspension design for the 204 is carried over from the face-lifted 203.
however there's one thing i do agree with what some 203 ppl said which is the 204 will not age as well because it looks like every other modern cars on the road. The car has been out for little over 2 years and we already have several changes to the car. The mirrors, the LED running lights, the now&finally active cornering lights, softer suspension for the newer models because MB buyers can't handle stiffer ride, and along with other things.
Last edited by FrankW; Sep 7, 2010 at 07:53 PM.
