Micro fibre Towel Scratching
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,986
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From: SEATTLE WASHINGTON USA
'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Still......
Perhaps you think I am new at this sort of thing? I have prepared and entered more cars for Concours, locally and nationally, than you've had hot dinners. I have judged locally and nationally and with a friend restored three landmark model collector Porsches that have gone on to win many awards. One is now in a private museum in Japan and another was purchased by a Microsoft collector.
I am a compulsive car hobbyist who cannot tolerate anything less than reasonably achievable perfection. And that's why I chose the color that I did because it reflects the work I put into it.
That's it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,714
Likes: 56
From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
[QUOTE=RLE;3593874]
I polished everything aft of the C-pillar with Menzerna Nano polish .
cleaned up the surface with Griot's Speed Shine leaving .
Menzerna paint sealer (smear on, rub off to a shine)
application of Griot's Concours wax . BTW, I went over the horizontal surfaces several weeks ago with paint cleaning clay.
QUOTE]
RLE, Excuse my ignorance of detailing but putting 4 different polishes on sounds a little over the top. I also would like to understand about applying a paint sealer on top of two coats of polish as the sealer would not be in contact with the paint. I would be grateful of an explanation.
I polished everything aft of the C-pillar with Menzerna Nano polish .
cleaned up the surface with Griot's Speed Shine leaving .
Menzerna paint sealer (smear on, rub off to a shine)
application of Griot's Concours wax . BTW, I went over the horizontal surfaces several weeks ago with paint cleaning clay.
QUOTE]
RLE, Excuse my ignorance of detailing but putting 4 different polishes on sounds a little over the top. I also would like to understand about applying a paint sealer on top of two coats of polish as the sealer would not be in contact with the paint. I would be grateful of an explanation.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,800
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
For those of you unfamiliar with the proper method of getting the best shine on a car, I'd like to offer a very short tutorial. I won't mention products because everyone has their own favorites.
Wash the car with a product that will strip the wax (dishwashing soap works well)
Use a clay bar to remove imperfections
Wash the car again
Use painter's tape to mask off non-painted areas (chrome trim, black plastic - whatever)
Use polish to smooth the surface of the paint. You'll probably want to use an electric polisher with the appropriate pad (appropriate being the right paint for the condition of your paint)
Seal the paint using either a sealant or a wax - or seal and wax.
A proper cleaning/polishing/seal will take the better part of a day...
Wash the car with a product that will strip the wax (dishwashing soap works well)
Use a clay bar to remove imperfections
Wash the car again
Use painter's tape to mask off non-painted areas (chrome trim, black plastic - whatever)
Use polish to smooth the surface of the paint. You'll probably want to use an electric polisher with the appropriate pad (appropriate being the right paint for the condition of your paint)
Seal the paint using either a sealant or a wax - or seal and wax.
A proper cleaning/polishing/seal will take the better part of a day...
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
You just won't give up, will you?
Perhaps you think I am new at this sort of thing? I have prepared and entered more cars for Concours, locally and nationally, than you've had hot dinners. I have judged locally and nationally and with a friend restored three landmark model collector Porsches that have gone on to win many awards. One is now in a private museum in Japan and another was purchased by a Microsoft collector.
I am a compulsive car hobbyist who cannot tolerate anything less than reasonably achievable perfection. And that's why I chose the color that I did because it reflects the work I put into it.
That's it.
Perhaps you think I am new at this sort of thing? I have prepared and entered more cars for Concours, locally and nationally, than you've had hot dinners. I have judged locally and nationally and with a friend restored three landmark model collector Porsches that have gone on to win many awards. One is now in a private museum in Japan and another was purchased by a Microsoft collector.
I am a compulsive car hobbyist who cannot tolerate anything less than reasonably achievable perfection. And that's why I chose the color that I did because it reflects the work I put into it.
That's it.
BTW - assumption is the mother of all F - ups.
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 92
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
991 C2S, AP2 S2000, E400 Coupe
None of that makes you an authority or right. I've won a few concours myself & done a fair bit of judging. I have a concours Jag XK120 with a private collector in Germany. I'm certainly more inclined to listen to the concerns of the paint manufacturers than to you. Maybe you have some of the better micro fiber cloths. Have you tried a micro fiber bonnet on your buff? One swallow does not make a spring & I think it is reasonable to advise people to be careful. That's all I'm saying and - no, I won't stop saying it.
BTW - assumption is the mother of all F - ups.
BTW - assumption is the mother of all F - ups.
- Wash using two bucket system
- Use lightly aggressive clay
- Polish using the least abrasive compound and lightest cutting pad that'll get the job done
- Seal
- Wax over sealant
I use high quality microfiber applicators for all but the polishing and waxing steps. I'm meticulous about my finish and I routinely do walkarounds with a fluorescent light to check for any blemishes and I've noticed the following:
- Any scratches introduced by following the above method are so incredibly fine and so uncommon that they're almost unnoticeable
- Since I use microfiber towels and mitts so often and in so many places, the rare scratches I see are more than likely due to my fingers or clothes inadvertently making contact with the paint
- Because the scratches are so fine, they're completely removed by extremely light rubbing compounds and pads
Polishing using a random orbital buffer, a good pad, and a good polish every 6-12 months is a maintenance step that makes all the difference when done properly. Even if done twice a year, the process sacrifices such a small amount of clear coat that even two decades of light polishing won't even wear through a quarter of the coat.
So I'm not saying that you're wrong or insisting that I'm right, but my own experience doesn't show that microfiber is bad for finishes.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 14
1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
I think what Glyn was trying to say....
It's anecdotal, but my experience backs up with RLE's been saying. When I fully detail a car, I follow the same basic process that he does:
So I'm not saying that you're wrong or insisting that I'm right, but my own experience doesn't show that microfiber is bad for finishes.
- Wash using two bucket system
- Use lightly aggressive clay
- Polish using the least abrasive compound and lightest cutting pad that'll get the job done
- Seal
- Wax over sealant
- Any scratches introduced by following the above method are so incredibly fine and so uncommon that they're almost unnoticeable
- Since I use microfiber towels and mitts so often and in so many places, the rare scratches I see are more than likely due to my fingers or clothes inadvertently making contact with the paint
- Because the scratches are so fine, they're completely removed by extremely light rubbing compounds and pads
So I'm not saying that you're wrong or insisting that I'm right, but my own experience doesn't show that microfiber is bad for finishes.
...is that there are differences in microfiber cloths - and a cheap quality one may scratch more than a high quality cloth.
Everything will scratch - but a good quality finish only has scratches that are invisible to the naked eye.
BTW, I'd recomend removing watches and rings and wearing a cotton sweatshirt/sweatpants combo for cleaning your car - that way, a slight brush against the car won't scratch your car...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,986
Likes: 6
From: SEATTLE WASHINGTON USA
'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
All that work
[QUOTE=Carsy;3594087]
Let me clarify.
Paint cleaning clay, used with the proper lubricant (in my case, Speed Shine marketed by Griot's) is used to remove surface contaminants such as in my case, tree sap that was not water soluble.
Speed Shine is not a polish in that it does not remove any paint, oxidized or otherwise. But, on a clean finish it leaves a very smooth and shiny surface. Products like this are sometimes called detailing spray. It is not a wax.
Polish (in my case Menzerna Nano Polish) prepares the paint for wax and may remove a microscopic layer at most. Waxing with no prep is a waste of time.
After polishing I simply clean up any unseen polish fog with Speed Shine again. This goes on and off like water with no effort or significant time spent.
The the paint sealer goes on, also like water and when dried forms a light fog which polishes off easily by hand.
And finally, the wax of which there are many brands, liquid or paste. It is not necessary to wax over the sealer but it gives it the final touch that some want.
This whole operation does not take as long as it sounds and in the end you can stand back and admire your work and realize it was worth it.
I polished everything aft of the C-pillar with Menzerna Nano polish .
cleaned up the surface with Griot's Speed Shine leaving .
Menzerna paint sealer (smear on, rub off to a shine)
application of Griot's Concours wax . BTW, I went over the horizontal surfaces several weeks ago with paint cleaning clay.
QUOTE]
RLE, Excuse my ignorance of detailing but putting 4 different polishes on sounds a little over the top. I also would like to understand about applying a paint sealer on top of two coats of polish as the sealer would not be in contact with the paint. I would be grateful of an explanation.
cleaned up the surface with Griot's Speed Shine leaving .
Menzerna paint sealer (smear on, rub off to a shine)
application of Griot's Concours wax . BTW, I went over the horizontal surfaces several weeks ago with paint cleaning clay.
QUOTE]
RLE, Excuse my ignorance of detailing but putting 4 different polishes on sounds a little over the top. I also would like to understand about applying a paint sealer on top of two coats of polish as the sealer would not be in contact with the paint. I would be grateful of an explanation.
Paint cleaning clay, used with the proper lubricant (in my case, Speed Shine marketed by Griot's) is used to remove surface contaminants such as in my case, tree sap that was not water soluble.
Speed Shine is not a polish in that it does not remove any paint, oxidized or otherwise. But, on a clean finish it leaves a very smooth and shiny surface. Products like this are sometimes called detailing spray. It is not a wax.
Polish (in my case Menzerna Nano Polish) prepares the paint for wax and may remove a microscopic layer at most. Waxing with no prep is a waste of time.
After polishing I simply clean up any unseen polish fog with Speed Shine again. This goes on and off like water with no effort or significant time spent.
The the paint sealer goes on, also like water and when dried forms a light fog which polishes off easily by hand.
And finally, the wax of which there are many brands, liquid or paste. It is not necessary to wax over the sealer but it gives it the final touch that some want.
This whole operation does not take as long as it sounds and in the end you can stand back and admire your work and realize it was worth it.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
...is that there are differences in microfiber cloths - and a cheap quality one may scratch more than a high quality cloth.
Everything will scratch - but a good quality finish only has scratches that are invisible to the naked eye.
BTW, I'd recomend removing watches and rings and wearing a cotton sweatshirt/sweatpants combo for cleaning your car - that way, a slight brush against the car won't scratch your car...
Everything will scratch - but a good quality finish only has scratches that are invisible to the naked eye.
BTW, I'd recomend removing watches and rings and wearing a cotton sweatshirt/sweatpants combo for cleaning your car - that way, a slight brush against the car won't scratch your car...
Your second point is why I will not allow the dealer to clean my car unless I'm around to supervise. I have found washing crews always have dirty cleaning materials. Will drop a chamois on the ground & then continue drying your car without washing it - Watches, rings, charms, buckles, buttons, zippers etc. are scraped all over your precious paintwork. Vacuum cleaner nozzles are brandished with gay abandon on the interior. They cleaned my previous Benz at it's then 1000Km 1st service and I made them replace every wooden trim in the car. They had scratched them all with a vacuum nozzle. These days if I don't hang around & watch the service I come back to the dealer & my car is high on a hoist above the workshop floor so no clown can get near it after service. They let it down & I supervise the washing. No more vacuuming allowed.
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Super Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
From: Fort Myers, FL
'09 C300 4Matic Sport
Exactly what I was going to say. The majority of the people who think they are "removing" surface scratches are just filling them in with wax
