Ted17

There is a difference between violating a law and being manipulated by the state's revenue generating practices... I encourage mat2hu to drive safely and legally. However, I'm sure even safe drivers are being fined quite often by these cameras. I think the laws are meant to ensure safe driving, but I think these photo ticket systems enforce the letter of the law (to the states' financial benefit), while missing the underlying spirit of the law. I'm not sure 'sucking it up' is the best advice, especially if mat2hu did nothing unsafe. Only a fool accepts what he's been given. Is this big brother society we're all moving towards really a good idea??

There is a lot of debate out there about these photo tickets right now. Here's some further reading if anyone's interested. The website referenced has several other recent articles on the subject, if you hunt around...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cal...cond-mistakes/

JamesB C300

the cops will cross reference you dads address and find out who else has a license with the same address and uncover you as well as anyone else who lives there. you are an obvious prospect. this is not the first time the cops have had a situation where the driver was different than the licensee.

Metric AW550

It was actually in the bronx..I used to have the list of the new red light cameras they just recently installed all over nassau count. I will look for it though.

Metric AW550

Thanks! I was just looking for that lol..so many of these are by my office and friends/family houses! Luckily none really by my house!

Ron Jr

Glad I live in Suffolk.

nyca

Suffolk is much nicer then nassau these days, Suozzi has turned nassau into "eastern Queens".

What gets me is that they did this because these intersections were "dangerous". So what did they do to make these intersections safer for all these years they were deemed dangerous? Better pavement markings? No. Better traffic controls, use of dedicated turning arrows/lanes? No. Longer yellows? No. Traffic lights with larger bulbs, that are visible from a longer approach distance? No.

Nope, don't do anything, let it fester for years until you can get a law to stick a camera there and collect the cash. These cameras are simply a way to monetize the failure of the traffic departments to properly construct these intersections.

nyca

I heard a report today - NHTSA is going to release studies showing that hands free cell phone usage is also "dangerous". The move to ban that is coming next, I guess the police will look to see if you are talking or moving your jaw before pulling you over. Or maybe they will have a bluetooth detector they can use.

Ted17

Yeah. There was an article in the NY Times this weekend...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/te...d.html?_r=1&em

The article covers both cell phone and hands-free devices. I agree that cell phones are dangerous while driving, and I don't talk and drive - but I don't know how you would enforce this sort of thing without major infractions on personal privacy. Our neighbor died about two years ago in a car accident b/c she was texting while driving. She was a freshman in college...

CrAZyVeGAsBoY

+1 on this u got caught, pay the fine and be done with it

super.jm

The two major uses of these camera photo devices are for photo radar and red light camera citations. Many motorists are outraged with the use of these photographic enforcement devices. The fact of the matter is that most of the complaints motorists are filing are in fact justified. There are some real inherent flaws with the current enforcement equipment and ticketing process being used.

_________________
Superbowl tickets

Cairo94507

Whaaa! I got caught running a red light when making a right turn because I was not paying attention nor did I respect the other drivers on the road enough to obey the rules of the road and now I want to be forgiven.

Pay the ticket and man-up. OH, and stop at red lights before turning right.

What is with young people who don't want to accept responsibility for their actions these days?

Driving is not a right-it is a privilege.

Peabody

This is an easy ticket to get out of in Germany. The photo in the ticket is not your father, and the law is arranged so that you cannot force a family member to testify against another. If the court can't put 2+2 together that it was you driving your dad's car, then they can't force your dad to tell them who it was driving. Your dad should take it to court and simply state, "It wasn't me."

Peabody

I love all the people in here who obey every traffic law, all the time. Like they've never rolled through a red light when they were allowed to turn.

I am Jeff

Hey Peabs,
1st) In the states, they can easily run a check for all licensed drivers at where the vehicle is located.
2nd) Someone is paying for the fine regardless of driver. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is operated in a safe manner. That is why the ticket it is a no point ticket. (I don't know how they can tack on points in california when they don't pull you over, but that's another discussion.)
3rd) Going to court and making a case when he clearly admitted guilt on this forum is a long shot. Unless he can raise into question the issue of whether or not he came to a stop or the law that requires a sign posted within 300 feet of the intersection. Those are his only arguments which he may use to have a hail mary chance of winning. :-P

bigben320e

I think this issue has been beat up enough.

He ran the red light without stopping, even here in Atlanta when making a right on the red light you are supposed to stop before turning. He got caught by the camera, a law was broken, he has to pay the ticket. Period.

The trying to beat it, and doing "hail mary" defenses as mentioned will get you in further. The best thing I saw posted was to man up, pay the fine, and possibly look into not getting any points. It sucks, I got a ticket for speeding recently and I just paid it online. I was speeding, no use of contesting. They just want the money anyway.

For those that come to and live in Atlanta, do not speed through any of the small cities, they are giving out tickets so fast it will make your head spin.


A little humor, don't do what this guy did:

Received a picture in the mail for speeding, and the fine was $200.
His response: He sent in a picture of $200.

You can imagine what happened from there.

Sportstick

I agree with ............but, Peabody, taking your path, and remembering that the father is under oath, the following questions would follow:

1) Was the car reported as stolen?
2) Who else do you allow to drive the car?
3) Who did you allow to drive the car that day?
4) Who was driving the car at the time of the infraction?

With regard to the German "family privilege" you note (which only exists between spouses in the US), the dad was not a witness to the infraction, so he would not be offering testimony against his son. He only would testify that he had allowed his son to drive the car at the time of the infraction. (It could be that the son then let a friend drive.)

Assuming the dad did not want to risk perjury, his answers would be sufficient to have the person or persons he named subpoenaed, and simple questions to them under oath would produce the truth, or possible charges of perjury.

So, for those not motivated by maturity, honesty, personal responsibility, nor honor, their game will ultimately fail anyway.

Peabody

It's a practical matter of basic laws and rights.It has nothing to do with perjury, honor, personal responsibility, or maturity... though if your on the path to self-righteousness by comparing the platitudes of your internet posts to the real life actions of others.. you probably made a wrong turn.

I'm most positive the OP didn't post because he wanted moral advice on how to be a good christian. In terms of morality you have a better argument that the" crime" is unfitting the punishment, and if his action didn't cause any harm then was it even immoral? Fortunately, these arguments are neither fit for a court of law, nor an internet forum.

My advice would be to grab a cheapo traffic lawyer and let him sort it out.. it'll be cheaper than the ticket.

Peabody

+1

len56

dude... sweet C63

dude... shoter sig plz

maninblack

dude , be a man and pay for your crime .

RLE

The last line of this old one usually is that the Po-leece sent back a picture of handcuffs.

akit

I just got the same ticket in the mail yesterday -- for making a right turn on "red" without stopping. The fine is $466. That is the same fine as going straight through red, which is very dangerous.

According to the ticket, the light was red for .25 seconds when I turned.

From my perspective, which is low to the ground, I absolutely turned right on yellow. I am not a bird or giraffe or omniscient being. I cannot see the line of demarcation the same way that such a being (or overhead camera) can.

There were no signs posted.

It didn't even occur to me that I was turning right on “red.”

I have lived in LA for six years and have never been pulled over here. I have a clean record. I have never had any points on my record.

I don't typically look for cameras. They rarely enter my consciousness. I only notice them if there is a sign. There was no sign in this situation. There are some at random spots in the city, but not at every place where there is a camera.

Even if there had been a sign, I doubt I would have done anything different because to me, the light was yellow. But I will never know, because there was (and is) no sign.

If they are going to use such means to raise money for the city (the motivation is not safety; accidents are actually up at a majority of the 32 photo-enforced intersections in LA) they should raise it more equitably. They should not purposefully target and trap people. What they have implemented is a regressive tax. When you raise money in a way that disproportionately impacts low income people, you have implemented a regressive tax.

After reading several comments on this thread, I am surprised at how judgmental and shaming people are, saying things like 'be a man' and 'take responsibility.' Instead of judging and shaming, perhaps you might instead think more critically and have compassion. Things are not that simple.

A right turn on a light that has been deemed red for one fourth of a second is not 'irresponsible.' Especially when there is no one else on the road and no pedestrians in sight.

These cameras target neighborhoods that have high concentrations of certain demographics that are less likely to fight.

There should be a sliding scale for fees. Going STRAIGHT through a light that has been red for 2 seconds, which is VERY dangerous, should be a lot more expensive than turning right on a light that been red for .25 seconds.

I will fight my ticket. I have several bona fide arguments. I won't be one who just shuts up and pays a fine for fear of retribution. This country was not founded on that principle. It was not founded on entrapment and extortion.

BerBer63

I agree akit. 466$ is absurd for a right turn violation (minimum wage workers thats 2 weeks of pay with nothing left over for living) and I think you can ask for the footage of your right turn on red, they have to save it I think. Same idea that parking tickets are 50$+, they are raising fines 3 times the height of inflation with no change in salary/wages for the last 10years for middle class and lower.

AMGTTV8

With you 100% sportstick - this guy has no idea what he is talking about.

One way or another he did something wrong whether or not there are yellow light timing issues etc..

There is no doubt that these are more revenue based initiatives than safety based, but nonetheless safety has its place in those algorithims.

Remember Mat2hu, there are always two sides to an argument.

I got a ticket the other day - not blaming anyone but myself...Even if it was early and no one was out and the cop was a ***** etc...

Hope all is well!

envyxc350

Everyone who said man up and pay needs to live in California and then say that. Paying double or triple the amounts of everyone else because of "safety" is a joke. Every year in the LA times there is an article about raising parking meter cost, ticket cost, violation cost, taxes, fees and everything else under the sun so they can make revenue for the city. 50$ for a ticket? pssh thats not even the price for tinted windows here.