C300Sport

This happened this afternoon in Atlanta. I was just debating with a friend of mine last weekend how the Koreans do offer a lot of "stuff" for the money but they don't offer the engineering or solidity of the Germans. It is pretty sad how the Hyundai's roof folded up so easily and I have to believe a Benz driver would have just had to pull over and wait for the cops to sort things out.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22742735/detail.html#

Azn_C300

Willing to bet my pano roof would have folded over me and skewered me with glass. Granted I'm sure MB is solid in their engineering, but I've seen my fair share of MB as well as BMWs and VAGs torn apart.

LawRens

Kinda harsh to use a coincidental vehicle as the Hyundai as proof their engineering isn't up to par. We don't know how fast the tire was going, the angle it hit the car, how fast the car was going? Too many variables. I'm sure the majority of modern cars would get smashed too. It's a damn wheel/tire, those things are HEAVY.

Pity for the driver though. :[

mr inkredibul

Pretty sure that could have happened to anyone. Thats like a freak accident. And Hyundai in rather recent years is actually pretty good on quality. Don't know what year the Sonata was though.

C300Sport

The point of the post was that things like this really make you think about saftey and how a car is "likley" to handle the situation. IIHS has new roof crush standards which was one of the reasons my friend and I got into our disucssion. I know it is just a sample but the top and the bottom performers kinda reinforce my thoughts that, on average, German cars are a bit beefier and therefore likely to be safer in most real world situations.

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/roof/detailsbyclass.aspx?58

LawRens

ah, great reference, that IIHS site. i stand corrected, sir; good post.

But once again, poor guy in the hyundai.

Ron Jr

About three years ago I was driving to work in my previous vehicle (Chrysler sebring convertable). I as usual was in a rush and unfortunatly had to stop at a light on an overpass for a parkway. I was in the left hand lane second car, my normal position would be right hand first position. We are heading north BTW. A car heading southbound is sending up a shower of sparks and I see a tire bouncing our way. It hits hard on the roof of the #1 car in the right lane (my normal position). The tire then goes airbourne and fortunatly lands in the cloverleaf of the parkway. Scary stuff.

LILBENZ230

The tire looks to have hit mostly the windshield. A Benz would've had no advantage. Most modern cars are safe and you'd be splitting hairs to try to determine exactly which is better. The days of Neons and Cavaliers are over.

K-A

I can't tell from the pic how it happened, and the writing is very poor in providing description.

However if it is a windshield thing, we'd all be unfortunately screwed.

That (presumably the Gold car?) Sonata is an OLD model, which indeed is very poor in Safety.

Newer Hyundai's, and as you can tell in that IIHS Link, the new Sonata's (top ranking in roof crush tests), are far more advanced, and provide Safety that should be about, or close to, on par with M-B's offerings. In fact, M-B's perform very poorly in the U.S NHTSA Tests (new E-Class gets a bad 4 Star Frontal Rating, with load to body parts that is even worse than the W204 C-Class, which also gets a 4-Star Rating).

Safety is huge to me, which is why I trust myself in a Benz, but it's not the old days anymore, other makes have about (or almost) caught up. M-B does still show very well in Death Ratings (preventing), as the last statistic sheet released by the IIHS showed the W211 E-Class was best amongst practically all Sedans. However that again was up until '04 models, huge advancements by other manufacturers have come into play in the past even 4 years.

jctevere

My father will never drive another car again except a mercedes-benz. He was involved in a bad accident many years ago in his '98 SL 500. He had the convertible down, but the roll-over bar up. He came around the turn and there was a vehicle that didn't pull over to the side of the road with his hazards on. His first instinct was to jam on the brakes, but he said he didn't have enough room to come to a stop, so he was going to go around the left but it was into oncoming traffic with cars coming and so he quickly swerved right and hit a curb and the car rolled downhill about 3-4 times. Luckily the car landed right-side up and he was able to walk out... Because of this he always has a benz or a huge truck as his primary car now.

I have to say, the Benz did hold up well, especially for the fact it was a convertible... If he were in any other convertible he would not be here right now... Also, Insurance didn't mark the car as totaled... It was still in good driving condition with very bad surface blemishes, but we had insurance take the car away and he got an '03 sl500 instead.

C300Sport

I agree that most manufacturers are closing the gap with the perennial top tier brands in safety. Take for instance, Honda's ACE body structure, etc. I still think that even though all makes are using sophisticated software and improved materials; makes like MB are still going to be ahead of the curve in safety. If only for the simple fact that German cars tend to weigh more....I don't think it is because they didn't design it efficiently, I think it is more likely it is overdesigned...and that may or may not be the one little thing that saves your butt...
I want to remark again that I am really sorry for the lady that passed away and in no way mean any disrespect toward her or her choice of automobile.

Sportstick

A bit of misinformation here. First, here is what the star ratings mean for NHTSA's NCAP (New Car Assessment Program) test.

5 Stars = 10 percent or less chance of injury
4 Stars = 11-20 percent chance of injury
3 Stars = 21-35 percent chance of injury
2 Stars = 36-45 percent chance of injury
1 Star = 46 percent or greater chance of injury

4 star is not a "bad" rating by any stretch, although the preference is for 5 stars. Further, the NCAP program rates a low frequency event versus the IIHS test, which is higher speed and a more realistic assessment. NCAP measures a perfectly flat frontal hit into a non-yielding barrier. Unless you anticipate a direct hit into, for example, a bridge abutment at least the width of the front of your vehicle, the results are not directly applicable. IIHS does a frontal offset with a yielding barrier, which is comparable to drifting over the centerline and hitting an oncoming vehicle, driver lined up with driver. The IIHS test is simply much more representative of real world events and is a better measure of how a structure manages the load in the frequent event that only a part of the vehicle is being impacted.

Here is a very well written summary for further details:

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/saf...4/article.html

Sincity

Same thing would probably happen to your Benz given the same circumstances. Heavy wheel/tire going X speed in opposite direction and Hyundai going at least 55 mph in hwy so you can imagine what the closing speed is. Don't forget, a wheel and tire weigh at least 40 lbs. May the driver in the Hyundai RIP. Very unfortunate.

C300Sport

Not so sure....it looks like the extra 200 lbs of curb weight gives you almost twice the roof strenth.

Mercedes C class
2008-10 models- Curb weight-3,510 Peak Force-18,826 Strength to Weight Ratio-5.36


Hyundai Sonata
2009-10 models- Curb weight-3,312 Peak Force-10,332 Strength to Weight Ration-3.12

K-A

In todays day and age, 4-Stars is pretty unacceptable. However, M-B's have always performed "poorly" in flat-wall NHTSA Tests, and you're right, the IIHS is far more rigorous and realistic, where M-B's perform very well usually.

M-B has proved it knows how to build some of the Safest cars out there, so I'll trust that there's a method to their madness.

However, with the W212, the load figures are the highest I've seen of a modern Benz, and if you watch the NHTSA Video, the car bounces a lot, and the occupants flail everywhere, as do the seats. It does perform well in the Euro NCAP Tests though.

I wrote a huge long Thread on the W212's and other M-B's Tests, breaking down stats and Video footage, etc. @:

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ty-scores.html

Sportstick

I certainly respect a man of high standards, but you may be overly stringent on this one. 4 star to 5 star may be the difference between a 10% and 11% chance of injury in this low likelihood event. Further, due to a variety of variables, 5 seemingly identical vehicles coming off the line, if tested, can produce 5 different results (although usually not widely different), but some 4 star and some 5 star. And the same car with a V8 will usually not perform at the same level of a V6, due to reduced engine box crush. Because of the known propensity for variation, some manufacturers target the actual criteria (not the star system created to simplify the info for the general public) of chest g's and HIC at 20% below the FMVSS 208 standard to allow for all predicted variations to still be within the compliance requirements. That is why I would not necessarily exclude a vehicle from consideration based on a single 4 star performance on one NCAP test event. Also, the dummy kinematics in open space are not, by themselves, the critical criteria; HIC and chest g's and degree of passenger compartment intrusion and associated loads on limbs from contact with surfaces are the key factors. I have not seen that data for the 212, but if you have those actual numbers, it would be interesting to see where they come out.

I do agree with your conclusion about MBs being a very good choice for minimizing overall risk. One of the few things better than a C Class would be another MB with more mass!!

K-A

Pretty much, the W204 is exceptionally safe and is tank-like in terms of high strength steels, and structural integrity, an M-B with more mass is the best way to even further that protection.

I agree for the most part with you, there are a lot of variables. For example, my Chevy Malibu gets top scores across the board, nearly perfect, all the IIHS scores (including the new roof crush Tests), 5 Stars everywhere, actually far better than my W211 shows (4 Stars Frontal, Acceptable Side Rating), however no doubt do I feel safer in my E-Class.

For the 212, the NHTSA shows pretty high load g's to all 3 key human areas. Actually if you compare the numbers with the 204, and 211, it's considerably worse.
http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/...resh=1&ID=8455

As far as passenger compartment intrusion, those numbers are available on the Euro NCAP Sites, and it performs great there, practically no intrusion whatsoever, which is expected, as the 212 uses more Ultra High Strength Steels than any production car to date, and being a 2010, uses the latest forms of it.

I am pretty **** when it comes to Safety, lol. It's a fascination mixed with my natural paranoia's, lol.

snarlingchicken

In my view, would having strong windshield/roof reinforcement help in cases like these? For instance, lets say a tire comes crashing through/into/at your windshield. Either way, I'm sure that at the speed both the wheel and car (especially on the highway) are going at, the windshield would shatter. (although most windshields now are now shatterproof). So lets say, from that disorientation, you swerve, and crash into another car. Now from this point on, it may or may not be a bit iffy, in terms of realism, but shattered glass could pepper the airbag, preventing it from properly cushioning the impact of the driver, which would then cause injury or death. If not, another car would come pummeling into you or any other driver in the situation.

I agree that every bit of quality helps, but tests nowadays (from the IIHS and such) are done at somewhat low speeds (ie. 30-50 mph), but most collisions occur at much much higher speeds, (on the highway that is) and on a head-on collision, force of the crash correlates with velocity and mass of the car, so regardless of how high the strength to weight ratio is, or how low the percentages of risk are, there are some external factors that come into consideration that not many take into account that could overrule those safety measurements. I think.

Defensive driving would just be a good way to go. The build and structure quality of a car definitely contributes to creating a feeling of safety while on the road that we all admire. But (I know this one based on another's experience) it doesn't make sense to buy a merc, or any other high quality/tier car just because it's safe(r) when involved in accidents (though not necessarily a bad thing :P) and drive unsafely/like a maniac.

SO. In case I may or may not spark an offense regarding my POV, I would like to say that this is just merely my POV and others may have experiences or thoughts that are different. I fully respect those points of views and now I'm reading K-A's sig of how the 2002 S500 had heated AND cooled seats. WHY DIDN'T OUR FAMILY'S S430 HAVE COOLED SEATS D:!?

K-A

Good points.

Haha, yeah, that a car had everything! It was like getting into a couch that could coddle you in every which way, and practically drive for you, when I sold it, it wasn't so much the car I was gonna miss as it was those OPTIONS!!

Azn_C300

Even if it got hit, it'd probably still be drivable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpF6yT1a2Os

snarlingchicken

Ho....ly......crap.