moekind008

So I talk to a MB Canada Business Development Representative today, and I was told that the 2012 C-Class Coupe will arrive in August of this year, while the sedans will arrive next year. I think it's going to be unveiled at the Toronto Autoshow on the 18th. Let's hope so, just thought you people should know.

bdyyz

I was told the exact opposite yesterday.
They told me that the sedan may or may not be at the Toronto Auto Show as it competes with Chicago. Who would buy a C-class between now and August (or Jan) knowing of the re-vamp?

Sportstick

Anyone who is an enthusiast and wants a manual transmission, or who drives under weather conditions that benefits from fog lamps....BOTH GONE!!

wnunez89

i was told that the coupe was gonna be in showrooms in january, and the sedan in august along with the new c63, but idk if that has any truth behind it..

Mtl20v

The new model years hit MB Canada showrooms in August every year. The coupe will be out later 2011 or early 2012. My Wife works for MB Canada.

DCubed

I hear you about the fogs, but I have been with a few German auto companies over the last 8 years and the number of people coming in asking for a 6-speed manual sedan in the last 12 months I can count on one hand. Its probably not worth it for MBUSA to certify the new C with the 6-speed as the return is not there. I am sad to see it go but I will not be buying a manual trans car again for a long time.

Sportstick

Please ask her if MB Canada is any smarter at customer retention than MBUSA and will continue to have manual transmissions on C Class?

Sportstick

It's the result of a downward spiral. They don't schedule many for production, so few come into inventory, so few wind up at dealers, so no marketing resources are allocated to targeting those buyers (as BMW does successfully), so few are sold, so few to none are reordered to replenish inventory, and down it goes. Several owners on this forum and others have reported going to extreme lengths to find their car. I had to have mine trucked in from 5 states away after a dealer was willing to locate it. Not many folks are willing to go through that and either don't think of MB anymore, or walk out to another brand, such as BMW, or cave in on what they really want.

RLE

Fogs remain but are relocated. This has been discussed here ad nauseum.

Sportstick

Not according to MBUSA. I was on a web chat with the C Class product planner at MBUSA and he said they were dropped as part of the freshening. The discussion was very specific on the impact of the loss of having fog lamps.

In any event, even if they had relocated them into the headlamps, that would be too high to be effective fog lamps. But, they are indeed gone.

sagar350z

IMO if the fogs help the customer then they should be available as an option when getting the car since they are not default anymore.

Kial

I got an email from MB a few weeks ago that Distronic Plus was not going to available for the 2012 C Class in Canada due to technical issues. I kind of doubt this as it appears to be an option for Europe. Hopefully they will correct this 'issue' and make it available for this year as that is one option I would trade up for. I guess we will see what 'options' will available when they release the price list. As for fog lights, I turned them on once, nice to have I guess but in my experience where I live, not crucial. If they were available I would get them, just in case.

whiteongrey

manuals are sooo old school especially when considering that all double-clutch autos are same as manual, only faster, plus you have the auto convenience and don't need to wast time pressing the clutch.

Why MB does not introduce a double clutch auto and chooses to retain outdated torque converter based AT is beyond me.

Sportstick

The new automatic transmissions are "dual clutch", not "double clutch". The former is a product design...the second is an activity by the driver. As for "old school", I assume you are not an enthusiast and have not done nor enjoyed any high performance track driving nor track racing. If this is about "convenience" and not "wasting time", I don't think anything a driving enthusiast could say would matter. Clearly, an automatic is easier, but for those of us who enjoy every aspect of the driving experience, being easier is not the goal...being more involved is, and doing it well is a skill.

Sportstick

Here is a great posting from a poster named Calesta on another brand's forum. If after reading this, you either cannot wait to try and master the skill, or wonder why anyone would bother, you will know where you fall on the enthusiast scale!

Double clutching is a downshifting technique that promotes smoother transitions and lower transmission wear. It is useful for road racing, prolonging transmission life, and giving you an overall smoother ride.

In normal driving, with modern cars- you don't need to double clutch... ever. When you shift, these neat little devices called "synchronizers" or "synchromesh" (or whatever other name you want to give them) in your transmission help your shifting by matching the rotational speeds between meshing parts. Why do you need to match the speeds between transmission parts when you shift? Simple- they won't go together unless they're all traveling the exact same speed. Your synchros take care of this, so you don't have to worry about matching revs much in normal driving.

So the question now is... why the heck do you need to double clutch? It's useful in racing, it's required for non-synchro transmissions, and it's just a damn cool racing skill to master. Think of your transmission as being separated into two functional halves. One half is connected to your engine, and the other half is connected to your drive axles/wheels. The split between the two halves is right at your gears.

Let's say you're driving down the street in 5th gear. Assume that your gearing is 1:1 all the way though, just for simplicity's sake. Your engine is turning 3000rpm, and so are all the parts in your transmission. You want to downshift to get higher up in your powerband to pass someone, so you mash the clutch pedal, shift to 4th gear, then lift off the clutch pedal. If your 4th gear ratio is twice what your 5th is, your engine is now spinning at 6000rpm (along with the "engine half" of the transmission) while the "driveshaft half" of your transmission is still spinning at 3000rpm. Your car is still moving at the same speed, but you're higher up in your engine's powerband. Now you have more power to pass the person in front of you.

What normally happens when you downshift and don't match revs? You feel the car lurch some while the transmission forces the engine to a higher rev level. The synchros grip against each other to match the gear speeds, the gears mesh, and when your clutch grips- it pushes the engine higher... and you feel the rough transition. To smooth this out, you can raise the rev level of your engine and the "engine half" of the transmission so the synchros have less work to do, and so your transmission isn't pushing the engine around.

How do I double clutch? I never thought you'd ask.

1. Push clutch pedal down
2. Shift to neutral
3. Lift clutch pedal up
4. "Blip" throttle to raise engine speed, "engine half" transmission speed
5. Push clutch pedal down
6. Shift into lower gear
7. Lift clutch pedal up

That's it.

If you did it right, you "blipped" the throttle just the right amount so your engine is at the exact right rev level to match up for the lower gear. Your synchros have less work to do (or none), so your transition to the lower gear is smoother, you effect less wear on the synchros (they don't have to work to match gear speed between the two "halves", you did that), and you effect less wear on the engine as well.

Someone asked me why you have to let the clutch back out before you "blip" the throttle, and here is the reason. The goal of blipping/tapping the throttle is to raise the rotational speed of the "engine half" of your transmission- your engine speed going up is what causes this to happen. Making your engine rev faster is just the way you effect the rise in transmission speed (in the "engine half")... if you could make the transmission rev faster on the "engine half" without revving the engine, that would theoretically work as well. If you rev the engine while the clutch is open (pedal down), then you're just raising the rotational speed of the engine, and not the "engine half" of the transmission. Just opening the clutch (pedal down) and revving the engine to where it needs to be, then shifting and closing the clutch (pedal up) isn't double clutching- but it still helps to reduce wear on your engine and transmission. Why? Your synchros still have to work to match the transmission speeds, but they don't have to work to rev the engine up to where it's supposed to be. On the engine side, your engine isn't being 'forced' to run at a higher rev as soon as you let the clutch out, so its wear is reduced as well.

Why does double clutching help?

1. Smooth transitions are everthing in racing. If you're downshifting during a turn at a road course and you're cornering at the limit, a sudden lurch in your car isn't going to be too pretty. Say hello to the curb/barrier or whatever is going to catch you when you spin out. Double clutch properly, and you'll be faster/smoother at the track.

2. If you have a transmission without synchros in it, you must double clutch to downshift, otherwise you'll just be grinding away at your gears while they fail to mesh. You can NOT shift without matching revs in a transmission that doesn't have synchronizers in it.

Double clutching does NOT help during drag racing. You do NOT downshift while drag racing- if you do, you just lost the race.

RLE

Ohh, the confusion.

MB introduced a dual clutch transmission in the SL63 recently. It is similar in concept to Porsche's PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplung) transmission ($4400 extra). This trans (without torque converter) will show up in other high end MB cars later. Read about it here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/au...s/14block.html

Hell, even VW has had one for several years now.

They are faster than manuals and conventional automatics and have nothing to do with what we are driving in C-Classes now.

whiteongrey

2012 Ford Focus gas the Getrag version of PDK -

Only for top-end like SL65 was fine 5 years ago. Now it just seems MB is falling behind on the trans offering.

killerg

DCT isnt always the right answer for every application. Some are made well some are made poor just like all transmissions. A number of lower end cars carry DCT/DSGs and they no longer necessarily equate to super high end performance

meeus

Sad to admit, but MB is NOT targeting driving enthusiasts or hoping to grow the customer base by attracting them (as opposed to, say, BMW).
And, in all fairness, roughly 80% posts on this board are about cosmetic enhancements.

It may have been an accident that the current C-class combined the traditional strong points of MB design while being relatively "fun-to-drive" (with manual transmission). Hey, this is the reason I bought one!

However, I will not be surprised if BMW and Audi follow suit in a few years in this matter.

Acapulco Bill

Too bad the 7G that, despite all the hype, shifts so terribly. Drove a rented Hyundai (at $19 a day) for a mad dash through the Sierra Madres for a meeting, and frankly, even with the 1.6L engine in a car costing under $10,000, the interaction and response between the throttle and the tranny was excellent.
Getting back into the C300 at my home airport, the whole driving experience was really sluggish in comparison. MB should concentrate on a dual-clutch automatic TRANSAXEL and the driver opt for Auto or Manual mode. This would also improve the weight balance, obviously. Is it too much to hope for in 2014?

whiteongrey

Well MB said they have resolved the response issues for 2012 - probably heavily modified the software with some mechtronics tweaks.

syncmaster

Mercedes Boundary just got the c350 coupe in their show room
white on black looks good!! no pricing yet

Kial

Saw a black C350 coupe here a couple of weeks ago, looks awesome. Still waiting for Distronic Plus so maybe next year.

GuOD

I was told my car is being built last week of august ... not sure what that means for delivery time but I hope I get in the first batch

Kial

Excellent, let us know what you think when you get it! I know you will love it but I am curious about the features. What options did you order?