The Archman

After owning a 2004 Porsche C4S and being a member of all the Porsche forums, engine problems are not new to the German manufacturers. Porsche has known for years that the 996 motors had a inherent problem with the intermediate shaft seal and the rear main seal. Owners were complaining of engines blowing at very early mileage. If the car was under warranty, then a new engine was supplied. However if your car was 1 day out of warranty, no engine from Porsche, and $16K later you had your new engine. From what I can tell that this was probably an anomaly. All I can tell you that Porsche would never replace the car, they would only replace the the engine. Also demand a new factory engine not a remanufactured engine.

noka

The E92 M3 (S54) I6 motor had early rod bearing failures. The OP's problem also appears to be an isolated incident (we hope).

AF330i

Sorry to hear about this, I know it must be disappointing. If this helps, my friends brand new loaded Suburban went through a very deep puddle and pretty much ruined the engine, after a new engine was put in you would never know the difference.

jmayn

Thanks for all the info. I will know more tomorrow. I should be hearing from both the dealer tech and MBUSA regarding my issue. I'll let everyone know what is going on.

RLE

Remember what they say, never say never.

I have been a member of PCA's Pacific NW Region for a looong time. One of our members purchased one of the early 996s and sure enough the RMS started leaking. Porsche's policy then was to replace the engine and ship the old one back to Reno. Wasn't very long when the new engine began leaking and the engine was changed a second time. The pile of engines in Reno must have been getting pretty big by that time. And guess what, the second engine started leaking so the owner called Fred Schwab, CEO of PCNA and demanded a new car. After a conversation I can only imagine, he agreed to replace the car.

She sold that one soon after to buy I know not what but her husband kept his old 911 track car.

My friend SJB's 2001 Boxster S engine ate itself at 71K miles and the crate motor from PCNA, with a small discount but admitting nothing, cost him close to 12 grand installed.

The new DI 997 engines do not have intermediate shafts and the RMS leak has been designed out so that's one problem that's likely gone.

tanktube67

Mercedes Benz is well known to have engine failures on their heavy/medium duty engines specially on their MBE 900 engines, any new or use engine that has mechanical movement is fragile to have a failure any time. Good thing you have plenty of warranty left, like Acapulco Bill said make sure you get a brand new engine, Keys European will take care of you.

Good luck.

z28style23

I would let them fix it but since it is a new car I would press to have them at least compensate you by goodwilling maybe a car payment or 2 for your inconvenience and the situation at hand.

jadewombat

I think this was a fluke, I haven't heard of many catastrophic failures. We've had our C300 for two years now almost and haven't had a single hiccup, no problems or complaints at all and I drive the **** out of this car, autocross regularly, etc.

jmayn

They haven't told me how long the repair would take yet. Its a lease as well. I trade cars in too much to buy anymore

jmayn

Thanks. If my only option is to repair my current car, I will not accept anything less than a new motor. From what the tech keeps telling me, the cyclinder has significant damage. I would not feel comfortable driving the car with a re-conditioned cylinder wall.

I'm glad to hear Keyes Euro will take care of me. they've been great thus far.

park423

Since it's lease, I would just get it fixed, you'll be in a new car in 2-3 years, not worth the headache. On the plus side, at least your not racking up miles on your car while it's in the shop. You should ask for a service A on the house.

RLE

I asked if it was a lease for a reason. A few years ago on this forum, someone's car leased from MB was out of service for a while and he convinced MB Financial to forgive his lease payments until it was returned to him.

If you leased it from someplace else, well then....

jmayn

Thats good to know. I am in fact leasing it through MBFS. I should be getting a call from them today.

jadewombat

Prepare for a fight with them. We've leased our last two cars, the C300 and a 2007 VW GTI. Air conditioning went out on the GTI, the nearest dealership was 120 miles away roundtrip, would they adjust for the mileage when we were getting close to the limit for two years?? Nope.

Leasing fits us much better, too. Most people (+90%) are actually leasing and they don't know it. Less than 10% of the general public (at least in the U.S.) never pay off the loan before they trade it in on something else, stupid. The difference is at the end of the lease I've paid less because I'm not paying on the total amount of the car and not stuck with $$$$ of negative equity from the first day of driving it off the lot. We simply walk away from it. Mileage is not an issue for us (it was with the GTI, but only because we mis-estimated the first go-around).

encoder

But the mileage thing is a big deal for most people. A 10k or 12k annual allowance just doesn't cut it for the average american whose putting 15k on.

Moreover, the point of a lease is that they estimate deprecation and whatever that is, you pay that.

If you "buy" a car and sell it in 1/2 way through your loan, at that point the difference between purchase price and trade-in is the actual deprecation.

In economic theory, these two numbers will be very close to one another.

The real minefield for buyers, I think, is being sure that you only pay for true deprecation and don't line somebodies pockets on either end of you owning the car.

And the minefield for leasees is the mileage issue.

I really don't think it's easy to make a blanket statement one way or the other for what's best for jane and jon doe. Not saying you did that, I'm just saying, it's murky.

RLE

Seems to me that at the end of a finance contract when the last payment has been made, you own the car. At the end of a lease (which is just a very expensive rental) you have poured all that money into it and still have nothing except the "opportunity" to pay the residual to own it.

If the lease is a business write-off, that's different.

jmayn

Hey Guys,

I heard from both the service manager at the dealership and the case manager from MB USA. The SM told me that the original motor is shot. He said it appears a piston ring was either put on wrong or damaged when the motor assembly took place. This lead to severe wear on the cylinder 5 wall.

As we all know, once a cylinder wall is damaged, the motor is a no go. He said they are going to replace the motor when a brand new one from the factory. I was ok with this since it would be brand new and not a refurbished one or anything. So the new motor has been ordered and I'm crossing my fingers that it will be in tomorrow and I can possibly get my car back by Friday or Saturday.

As for the conversation with MBUSA, the case manager reviewed my case and was going to submit it to some department that reviews these types of issues and see if I qualified for a completly new car. She explained to me they would review my situation and apply the California Lemon Law accordingly. I knew right then my issue would not fall under that statute. Either way, I told her I was satisfied with receiving a new motor and to not pursue getting a completely new car. I did, whoever, tell her I would appreciate if they could pro rate my payment 1 month since I am without the car I agreed to lease. I explained to her how the car i've been driving for the past week is a base model and I specifically chose the car that broke down due to the added features it had. She said that should not be an issue and was great. I should be hearing from her this week as well.

I must say, as disappointed as I was when this happened, everyone at the dealer Keyes European and MB USA have been great and explained all their decisions well. I very much appreciate that and can't wait to get my car back!

One thing I think i'm going to do is see how much it would be to have them install the Xenon headlight package. Has anyone done this after purchasing the car?

Thank you everyone for your input and opinions. I've been a part of a few different car forums, and this one seems like a great one with good members.

Cheers,
Jared

Carsy

Jared,

Thank you for the info on the piston ring. Glad to hear all is working out.

John.

Glyn M Ruck

With a new engine in a crate - your car will be fine.

sknight

No you don't:

As for the rest, you'll get a new engine, in a new car. Stop acting entitled and don't pull the "I bought a MB, and deserve to be heard!" crap.

tanktube67

A lease does not fit everybody and mileage is a big deal here in SoCal easily you put 25k Miles a year.

jmayn

First off what's with the attitude?

Second, where do you come off that I am acting entitled since I drive a MB? I've only stated my disappointment with the situation.

Thanks for your helpful post :thumbsup:

jmayn

Yea, I thought I drove a lot more miles before I actually calculated what I drive a year. A lease turned out to be an option for me. This is my first leased car. In the past, I would always finance to buy. Looking at my car history, I tend to keep cars for 2-3 years tops. Once the car is worth more than I owe, I sell it or trade it in for something new. I've yet to own a car that I want to keep for a good amount of time.

jadewombat

Good to hear they're getting a new engine installed, find out from them the proper break-in procedure for the first few thousand miles.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but there's two types of car people, renters and buyers. Again, over 90% of the public are renters (most people never settle the car loan). If you pay off your car, drive high miles on it each year, and plan to keep it 5-10 years or more, you are a buyer. Most people 'buying' a car never pay it off before they trade it in on something else. When you lease you agree to what would be a selling price of the vehicle, let's say $35K, then if it would take 5 years to pay off that car you're responsible for only two years of payments if it's a two-year lease, three years of payments if it's a three year lease--you're not paying interest on the total value of that $35K, it's less than the total amount. The salesman can play with the money factor but that's where you have to negotiate what you want your monthly payment to be. Someone who buys that same car, gets bored of it, trades it in after four years has paid more in interest and is stuck with all that $$$$ of negative equity from first day of driving it off the lot and then has to sell it, I simply walk away from it. The downside is you can't really do that much to modify the car unless you plan to put it back to stock, but leasing has worked pretty well for us so far.

The residual value of the car--of course the manufacturers are banking on that. That same car if it had been bought and trying to resell it on your own, you think you're going to get the book value or anything near what a dealership would selling that same car? Probably not. The amount that they charge and you can charge as an individual are two different things, again the drive-it-off the lot depreciation you would have and the backing and warranty that a dealer could sell a vehicle as 'pre-owned and certified' is going to carry a lot more weight than someone selling a vehicle in the newspaper or AutoTrader.

This won't work for everyone of course but a lot of people just don't do their homework on what all of their options are.

RLE

The two types of headlight assemblies are interchangeable ($$$$) but you won't have the self-levelling feature since the chassis sensors and their associated wiring are not present.

The relevant software must be changed to "xenon present."