Gas Alternatives
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Virginia
2012 E350 - Cabrio; 2017 GLS 450
Gas Alternatives
Heyya everyone -
I'm sure everyone is feeling the pinch of gas prices here recently. I've seen quite a few car manufacturers come out with hybrid vehicles, but not much from the MB folks. I don't know about you all but I'm paying close to $65 bucks in the Northern Va area to fill my 350. I know I know I know...if you can afford the car, you can afford the gas, but not my point. I'm taking the Chevy Volt, as merely an example, which costs about what I paid for my 350 seems to be a nice car. Has anyone heard of Benz is going to do anything similar? The Leaf is small, cute and probably not what I'd be looking for, but none the less, it is out there as are many more. I think there is going to be a market for these cars, and I hope Benz doesn't loose out. I love my car and I get excited every time I drive it, but the excitement is getting costly.
I'm sure everyone is feeling the pinch of gas prices here recently. I've seen quite a few car manufacturers come out with hybrid vehicles, but not much from the MB folks. I don't know about you all but I'm paying close to $65 bucks in the Northern Va area to fill my 350. I know I know I know...if you can afford the car, you can afford the gas, but not my point. I'm taking the Chevy Volt, as merely an example, which costs about what I paid for my 350 seems to be a nice car. Has anyone heard of Benz is going to do anything similar? The Leaf is small, cute and probably not what I'd be looking for, but none the less, it is out there as are many more. I think there is going to be a market for these cars, and I hope Benz doesn't loose out. I love my car and I get excited every time I drive it, but the excitement is getting costly.
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
MB of course offers the S400 Hybrid. A real step forward in Europe, and was the first manufacturer to use a high-efficiency light-weight lithium-ion battery pack in a production vehicle.
As for saving $, the upcoming C250 CDI uses a 1.8 L twin turbo providing the same acceleration as the C300, 22% more torque, and HALF the fuel consumption.
The Chevy Volt is certainly starting a trend. Many friends in the San Diego area have sold their gas-guzzling BMWs (relatively, because they are 20% more fuel efficient than the MB), and bought Volts, tiny Hyundai's, Honda Fits & Insights, and Fusion Hybrids because it saves them $8,000 a year. And they could well afford their BMWs with incomes over $120k, guess they figured that there were better things to do with their $ and ecology consciousness.
As for saving $, the upcoming C250 CDI uses a 1.8 L twin turbo providing the same acceleration as the C300, 22% more torque, and HALF the fuel consumption.
The Chevy Volt is certainly starting a trend. Many friends in the San Diego area have sold their gas-guzzling BMWs (relatively, because they are 20% more fuel efficient than the MB), and bought Volts, tiny Hyundai's, Honda Fits & Insights, and Fusion Hybrids because it saves them $8,000 a year. And they could well afford their BMWs with incomes over $120k, guess they figured that there were better things to do with their $ and ecology consciousness.
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Having driven extensively a Smart ForFour in Europe (too bad it is now not available), and looking at the 50 MPG figures for the 2012 W204 CDI options (up to 64.5 MPG claimed in the UK, however the basis of their rating system is very different from the US EPA), for the price difference, one DEFINITELY should look at the C class over a Smart (IMO).
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Here is one link, there are several about the 2014 hybrids (although if I remember right, they said the same about the 2011 W204 back in 2008...). Again Europe forcing down the CO2 emissions through legislation and taxes:
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/m...ation-c-class/
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/m...ation-c-class/
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From: MA
'24 Porsche Macan
Here is one link, there are several about the 2014 hybrids (although if I remember right, they said the same about the 2011 W204 back in 2008...). Again Europe forcing down the CO2 emissions through legislation and taxes:
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/m...ation-c-class/
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/m...ation-c-class/
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Here is the graphic of the EPA estimate on the Volt. Lots of hocus-pocus going on here, but you can read 60 MPG. Remember the Mercedes SLS E-cell, here is the link.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/mercedes-electric-SLS
http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/mercedes-electric-SLS
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From: SEATTLE WASHINGTON USA
'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
2012 engines
MB of course offers the S400 Hybrid. A real step forward in Europe, and was the first manufacturer to use a high-efficiency light-weight lithium-ion battery pack in a production vehicle.
As for saving $, the upcoming C250 CDI uses a 1.8 L twin turbo providing the same acceleration as the C300, 22% more torque, and HALF the fuel consumption.
As for saving $, the upcoming C250 CDI uses a 1.8 L twin turbo providing the same acceleration as the C300, 22% more torque, and HALF the fuel consumption.
Actually the C250 is a 2.2 (204PS) and can achieve 4.0L/100km.
And continuing with the numbers, the new C 350CDI has more torque (265PS & 620nm @ 1600rpm) than the C-63 with 600nm @ 6500rpm.
These numbers are quotes from my new copy of Auto motor und Sport from Stuttgart where they test all the 2012 C-Classes.
There were a couple of criticisms of the C250 and C350 CDIs, one of which was light engine vibration.
And they don't mention a C300 gasser making me wonder if it's gone.
Last edited by RLE; Apr 22, 2011 at 11:11 PM.
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
RLE you are correct, the official displacement is 2.143L for the C250 CDI.
And while many manufacturers will go the rechargeable battery with internal combustion backup route, MB will continue for the moment to provide higher efficiency internal combustion motors (its their 125 year heritage I guess) before seriously concentrating on the E-cell technology demonstrated with the one-off SLS.
About the 350 CDI - (currently available in the E class) some calculate there is no economic savings here, as the cost to recharge the urea-based exhaust additive is around $1,000 dls every 100k miles, practically offsetting the mileage saving, for the US anyway, as diesel commonly cost more than gasoline. Owners will literally "**** away" their savings.
And while many manufacturers will go the rechargeable battery with internal combustion backup route, MB will continue for the moment to provide higher efficiency internal combustion motors (its their 125 year heritage I guess) before seriously concentrating on the E-cell technology demonstrated with the one-off SLS.
About the 350 CDI - (currently available in the E class) some calculate there is no economic savings here, as the cost to recharge the urea-based exhaust additive is around $1,000 dls every 100k miles, practically offsetting the mileage saving, for the US anyway, as diesel commonly cost more than gasoline. Owners will literally "**** away" their savings.
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From: MA
'24 Porsche Macan
Technically, I think you can only take gas engines so far. If MB puts all it's current R&D into diesel, it will lose the US market because that will never fly here to any appreciable degree, IMO.
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From: Jersey
2023 GLC 300 SUV, 2006 BMW Z4M Roadster, 2006 Lexus RX400h
BMW will be offering some new cool ev cars soon, if MB doesn't catch up I'm sure people will start jumping ship soon 
http://www.bmwactivatethefuture.com/
http://www.bmwactivatethefuture.com/
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
How far can gasoline go? F1 engines are limited to 2.5L, naturally aspirated (no turbos here). Even so, they produce 750 HP and are much more efficient at converting the energy available in their fuel to HP and torque than twin turbos gasoline engines can, currently.
Although the upcoming Ford Focus RS500, with its 4-cyl 2.0L engine, produces the same HP as the current 4.4L 8-cylinder BMW M3 engine (414 HP) AND MORE TORQUE. Much is contributed by (wait for it) natural aspiration before using forced induction.
Combined with energy recuperation (hybrid), the future promises cleaner, more efficient and more powerful automobiles. I can't wait.
Although the upcoming Ford Focus RS500, with its 4-cyl 2.0L engine, produces the same HP as the current 4.4L 8-cylinder BMW M3 engine (414 HP) AND MORE TORQUE. Much is contributed by (wait for it) natural aspiration before using forced induction.
Combined with energy recuperation (hybrid), the future promises cleaner, more efficient and more powerful automobiles. I can't wait.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 3
From: MA
'24 Porsche Macan
How far can gasoline go? F1 engines are limited to 2.5L, naturally aspirated (no turbos here). Even so, they produce 750 HP and are much more efficient at converting the energy available in their fuel to HP and torque than twin turbos gasoline engines can, currently.
Although the upcoming Ford Focus RS500, with its 4-cyl 2.0L engine, produces the same HP as the current 4.4L 8-cylinder BMW M3 engine (414 HP) AND MORE TORQUE. Much is contributed by (wait for it) natural aspiration before using forced induction.
Combined with energy recuperation (hybrid), the future promises cleaner, more efficient and more powerful automobiles. I can't wait.
Although the upcoming Ford Focus RS500, with its 4-cyl 2.0L engine, produces the same HP as the current 4.4L 8-cylinder BMW M3 engine (414 HP) AND MORE TORQUE. Much is contributed by (wait for it) natural aspiration before using forced induction.
Combined with energy recuperation (hybrid), the future promises cleaner, more efficient and more powerful automobiles. I can't wait.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,108
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From: Dix Hills, New York
2012 C250 Coupe
I was lucky enough to get some VIP passes to the NY Auto Show from generation Benz where I got to get a sneak peek at the show before it opened on press day and got to meet with a bunch of designers and Benz executives. They said they are definitely concentrating on fuel efficiency across the entire lineup these next few years. They also said that diesel/hybrid mix alternatives would be much more fuel efficient than gas/hybrid versions, and also with the possibility of biodiesel, much greener alternative. He said within the next year or two they hope to launch a $75k S-class diesel/hybrid alternative getting 75mpg fuel numbers on the highway, and 65 in the city...
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From: San Francisco, CA
2017 E300
I wonder if any C300s have switched to using E85? There is a station by my house that sells it for mid $3 a gallion versus the $4.45 of premium I am paying. I would experiment but alas the 3.5 does not take ethanol
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Only the C300 is E85 ready. However the difference in cost per gallon is largely offset by lowered MPG, as ethanol has a much lower energy content for its volume as compared to gasoline. Anyone out there have real MPG results from E85?
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\
I wouldn't count the internal combustion engine out just yet.
Alternative? Burn more air and less fuel, and do it better.
Laser Sparks Revolution in Internal Combustion Engine
Alternative? Burn more air and less fuel, and do it better.
Laser Sparks Revolution in Internal Combustion Engine
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From: MA
'24 Porsche Macan
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
@Peabody & noka: although there is some confusion here. A compressed gasoline-air mixture needs time to burn as the piston needs to get pushed to the bottom of its travel. Not an instant explosion.
To try and detonate the mixture all at once would cause pinging and knocking. Which high octane gasolines try to avoid by burning more slowly and predictably.
So I dont get it. Platinum tipped plugs can get up to 100k miles, and the technology is really SO simple. They almost never fail (one in tens of millions). This laser idea I think is
incorrect.
Although spark plugs do eventually fail and possibly are not as efficient as the lasers would be, I think the laser technology faces a lot of issues.
1) The ceramics and optics producing the laser would get dirty reducing the power of the laser over time
2) Have more possibility of failure than a modern spark plug
3) The cost would probably be much higher.
So I think this technology will never catch on. Before that happens we will probably be using alternative methods of energy.
Like the bicycle?
To try and detonate the mixture all at once would cause pinging and knocking. Which high octane gasolines try to avoid by burning more slowly and predictably.
So I dont get it. Platinum tipped plugs can get up to 100k miles, and the technology is really SO simple. They almost never fail (one in tens of millions). This laser idea I think is
incorrect.
Although spark plugs do eventually fail and possibly are not as efficient as the lasers would be, I think the laser technology faces a lot of issues.
1) The ceramics and optics producing the laser would get dirty reducing the power of the laser over time
2) Have more possibility of failure than a modern spark plug
3) The cost would probably be much higher.
So I think this technology will never catch on. Before that happens we will probably be using alternative methods of energy.
Like the bicycle?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 175
Likes: 5
From: Virginia
2012 E350 - Cabrio; 2017 GLS 450
I was lucky enough to get some VIP passes to the NY Auto Show from generation Benz where I got to get a sneak peek at the show before it opened on press day and got to meet with a bunch of designers and Benz executives. They said they are definitely concentrating on fuel efficiency across the entire lineup these next few years. They also said that diesel/hybrid mix alternatives would be much more fuel efficient than gas/hybrid versions, and also with the possibility of biodiesel, much greener alternative. He said within the next year or two they hope to launch a $75k S-class diesel/hybrid alternative getting 75mpg fuel numbers on the highway, and 65 in the city...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,367
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From: MA
'24 Porsche Macan
You could very well be correct. I don't have enough knowledge in the area,.. but it sounded interesting.
