tehc300

If we're talking about quality here then I'll say JL is not the best. Nor are other high end brands that claim to be. What works for 1 may not work for another. JL has been slackin recently but they're older models if you can still get your hands on them are much better then their recent products.

Older versions like the v1-v2's just dominate in every aspect over the v3's (I have all 3 versions) Not sure if its due to a manufacturer switch or just bad QC but so far i've gone through 3 10w3 v3's in the last several months. I actually have a brand new one I swapped out for an older v2.

Everyone has a certain way they like their sound. Some like it high/mid range with subtle bass and others like it where the bass is overwelming. To find out we'll just all have to give our own definition of "quality/balanced sound"

Glyn M Ruck

I shall back out of this thread. JL failures are caused by driving amps into clipping.

More crap is spoken in car audio than any other form of the audio hobby. More cars are also permanently damaged. Most people don't know what good bass is.

Most car audio people/installers are a bunch of thinly disguised hoods. If you find one of the exceptions then treasure that.

There is no secret to proper cabinet design for subs. One thing I would encourage if having cabinets built, is to go sealed a stay away from bass reflex (ported) cabinets. There is only one reason to port a cabinet - it's to try & achieve more & slightly lower frequency bass out of a specific driver cheaply.

Absolute Sound South Africa where I was a sleeping director for over 30 years during my oil career ceased the import of all car sound products & stuck to high end until the death of my dear friend Heinz Zaczek who ran the business 2 years back.

BTW - If you value what Stereophile & The Absolute Sound Magazine say & I do some of the time. The only manufacturers that achieve top ratings today are Velodyne, JL Audio & Paradigm. I personally think Martin Logan is now doing a good job of subs but they are now in bed with Paradigm.

Enjoy the hobby - I gave up on car sound many years ago as a WOFTAM.

Cheers!

bendow

OP,

I agree with others on Image Dynamics. You can buy one here for $200, (Image Dynamics is no longer in business)

Don't pay a premium price for JL...not worth the cost IMO.

If you buy an amp kit, get a Stinger amp kit. A lot of those "amp kits" say their power wire is 4ga when it's more like 10 or 12ga.

Build your own box. You will save space and not take up the whole trunk with a crap prefab box. I made a thread "Installed a 15" sub." You could copy my design and with a 12" sub you could use a whole lot less space than I did with the 15

bendow

And B&W.

JL isn't bad by any means, I just think it's no secret that you can get equally good sound quality from a different sub for half the cost.

Also, ported does serve a purpose IMO. Like the Mercedes C300...it's pretty sealed up. I tried a 15 sealed vs ported. Ported was much better.

Glyn M Ruck

No longer B&W - nice chuffing ports - dimples & all. Ported was not more accurate. It gave you more bass. Everyone is welcome to their taste in bass - But:

A Cello or a Fender Jazz Bass guitar or an Acoustic Double Bass has a specific sound in a particular environment where it is recorded. When reproduced it should sound as close to that as possible. Not more boom, or bloom, or harmonic overhang in Jack's car than it has in Bill's car. Otherwise it is coloured & crap.

AskDrTodd

Agreed, well said.

Sher Judge

Oh my, well said to a fellow South African. I have 3 x 1508 svc Digital Designs 8" woofers, Digital Designs German based manufactured and built components for my front and of course all this without Zapco Comp amplifiers and balanced line cable etc... Also using Batcap batteries and Batcap pure carbon capacitors.

My music Pink Floyd and it goes on and on "1812" Overture, The Fantasy Album, just good music etc...

Back to bass the 3 x 8" inch woofers are so fast and accurate I just love them.

Each to their own and they in a 230te 1992 W124, some people think I have monster subwoofers in there, they been playing non-stop for more then 5 years and they seem to be getting louder. I also have Alumapro in another car setup and they just creamy smooth and loud to the point too.

Digital Designs.

wnunez89

always good to see another person repin digital design. i had 2x8" in my old 350z and they were great. when ppl sat in my car they thought they were 12"s. my pervious setup before that was a single JL w7...no comparison. traded the two eights for a 3510" and it was nuts lol. the JL was great, until i had the DD's then i was hooked. had them powered by a cM1 DD amp, great setup.

Richie999

You guys really got passionate about Jl.

My need in bass is just to fill the cabin of the car. Some of you really opened my eyes to the idea that bass sounds like bass and I might be too brand centric.

Years ago a solid sub was measured (on paper) by its sensitivity. The Infinity I am looking at is the most sensitive sub I can find. As such, I am now leaning towards the Infinity.

The expensive JL's are not near as efficient.

I do not need to cat next to me at the red light hearing the bass line from Depeche Mode's Route 66.

So, a few more cold ones and I might break out the old AMEX on Amazon ans grab a sub...

Glyn M Ruck

In the case of a powered subwoofer efficiency is more a product of the amplifier. Cheap Class D amplifiers will always look more efficient. In fairness they are probably good enough for bass but have to be the most crude way of switching a transistor.

Multiple small, fast subs with ultra light cones are always going to produce better quality bass than a single large cone which suffers break up & becomes non linear.

This is especially true in a car where you are listening in the near field with very little distance between you & the drivers.

jimmythegreek

I agree with the JL products. Dont get me wrong they make nice stuff, but i did a multi test in my last C350 w my buddies stereo store, its now closed =/

I did his bathroom reno in the store (just fixtures) for an amp and subs/box of my choice. He was big w rockford and polk and some boston stuff too. Was an old car dealer and you could drive into the showroom. So after closing we drove my C350 w MM and HK into the showroom and tried several different amps and boxes off the display wall by just running a few feet extra for teh box into my trunk. The 08 I had then didnt have folding seats. The JLs were the loudest, we tried most with a Punch 800 amp, but inside the car they werent clean, outside they boomed. ported JL enclosure factory made BTW 2 12's cant remember model but highend. I then tried punch 12s in a rockford box and it was softer outside but cleaner nicer inside, I liked them better for sound but wasnt shaking the stuff on the racks like JLs were. For kicks he had me try a boston 1000w amp and 2 G2 10's in a sealed tiny box made by boston, kinda a package deal. I fell in love, boomy bass but tight, and my hair was vibrating w the bass on hiphop tracks, and wasnt too boomy outside and box was tiny. I still have that amp/box and I learned names arent everything, didnt really know what boston was back then. He did the install that night and I loved that HK setup with the boston amp/subs and got tons of compliments on the clarity and sound quality. and it boomed when I needed it too

Alot of you would be surprised if you stuck another brand box/sub in your car and listened to it from a buddy or a shop, we get stuck on names and not sound. I test all my friends boxes when I can and I was amazed at Image dynamics subs, they are super clean and powerful, theyre my next subs when time comes I think

ImageX

image dynamics or elemental designs... the elemental designs subs are very nice for the price...

Sher Judge

HI gentlemen, have a look at the Digital Designs 1508, it's an 8" subwoofer that has 9 spiders, a serious cone and a very special surround. Also remember the vc is made from real special material. Best of all is that it's made in Oklahoma USA, with USA sourced parts only. Only until 2010 have they sourced magnets from Europe.

Digital Designs - True To The Source.

Sher Judge

DD is one of the best out there, in my opinion. Their failure rate is very, very low, if any or unless you into blowing off roof tops.

Richie999

Hey guys-- op says that PRICE is the name of the game...

I have zero interest in a $250 sub......

Why is this worth any more than a cheap Rockford or Infinity?

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=782

Sher Judge

Aclass Bclass Cclass Eclass Gclass Sclass CLclass - ACTROS - SLR - SLS I could go on and on and on and on.

We all were allowed choices, so go figure are you buying [Mercedes] or [Mazda]

And no offence to Mazda, just making an example of price structure for the ones who need to understand.

Richie999

You just made my point...I still am hoping that someone will explain to me why the additional money is worth it.

At least the car dealer will say that a E55 has more horse than a C300 and therefore one should by the E55.

ImageX

just by looking at it you can see it is a better product... the cone for example most rf or infinity is paper or a cheap plastic it mite be unbalanced under higher exclursion levels... then look at the eD sub it's a solid light weight carbon cone... the magnet structure is more so it'll hold a higher level of excursion without loosing control... most rf or infinity subs in the same price range dont look like this sub at all... also on youtube they have the excursion tests on video so you can see what they can take... most subs would blow with the excursion levels they put on it... then craftsmanship you'll see they got nicer terminals and a 2" vc where most have a 1.5" at this price group... a butyl rubber surround where most use foam... overall a better built sub...

a list of their videos on youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/elementaldesigns#p/u

also on top of all this their made in america too...

Richie999

Squeezed the trigger today and we have a winner from the sub shoot out!

1 x 12" Infinity 1262w (dual voice coil sounded cool)
1 x Infinity Reference 1300a (with groovy bass knob)
MTX RE-Q
Scosche enclosure sealed

Pics to come

Glyn M Ruck

Enjoy - thank god you went sealed!

wnunez89

cant wait to see the pics