Sportstick

I waited at my fairly good-sized dealer while my three year A service was performed (all good...no repairs). I browsed the lot and found they had about 18 new 2012 C Class models. No coupes. No 350. One 250 Luxury. Seventeen 3004MATIC Sport. I asked a salesperson about their inventory mix, and he said rear wheel drive was just about unsaleable in Michigan. About a year ago, they took in an 09 rear wheel drive in trade, with only 4,000 miles on it, and could not resell it for a year, finally at a loss. Folks in better climates should appreciate and enjoy their good driving fortunes!

venchka

We are going to North Carolina at Christmas. I will be looking for snow to play in with our new 4matic.

Wayne

tanktube67

We have to be thankful of So Cal weather.

venchka

Why? Seems pretty boring. 4 seasons are great. Keeps you guessing.

Wayne

C300Kid

Southern California is very diverse. You can be on the beach one day, then up in the mountains skiing on fresh snow the next...only a few hours away.

We dont have that luxury here in Texas.

AdidasC230

Id rather a 300 4 matic then a 250 rwd those 4 bangers are awefull

Invain15

I agree. It would make no point to buy a rwd in Michigan. I would be putting deisel in a gasoline engine, it just dont work right.

morph860

I'm in CT - I don't think I've ever seen a C300 that wasn't 4Matic on the lot here either. I had a RWD C230 in the past, couldn't get very far in the snow or ice.

Sportstick

It does it you wanted a stick (before 2012), and owned great winter tires!

xolinlevh

In MN id say about 95% of the Benzs i see are 4Matic, very rare to see a 2WD in this climate

MDMercedesGuy

Please qualify why you think the 250 is awful. There's barely any difference over the 300 in the way they drive, and the sound's not that much different...

AdidasC230

Having driven the old M111 2.3L 4Cyl S/C the M271 (I think) 1.8 S/C and then driving a M272 V6 is a 2.5, 3.0 or 3.5 or the C240 2.6L V6.

I can safely say and this is with many peoples backing in the W203 forum, that the V6 is a much smoother more consistent power delivery. Also stock for stock they do sound similar exaust wise, however the engines sound quite different, and more so with an aftermaket exaust

The C230 Kompressor go compared to the C230 M272 2.5L v6 alot, and many said the 4 felt more powerful but the 6 felt smoother and had more consistent power.

The new Turbo 4 feels much like the old turbo 4 of the past, not smooth, quite noisy up top (read reviews) and lacks a bit of low end tq.

This is amplified when you drive a C250 sedan and then a C300 sedan, the C300 has more low end tq, a smoother power band and it does per fact have more HP and Tq in the same size car, so it will be quicker.

Also I was mainly refering to Up north a 250 is crap, they are all RWD and up north 4Matic is def needed in many areas.

They didnt put the 250 in 4 matic and instead carried over the 300 for that job even though its the oldest of the bunch of engines. Which says to me it A. Lacked the power to drive the extra weight, and B. Isnt prefered still to a V6 with the same or a bit more output for the extra price of the 4wd.

I was unimpressed by the 4, just cuz I hate it doesnt mean its bad. I also hate your smart car and find it a pinacle of evil. Doesnt mean it is, just means I think it is.

Stevedotmil

BWAAHAHAHAHAH!!! I like your sense of humor. That was great. I have to agree with you on the choices that MB made for the boosted car. That thing would've been a slug with AWD chassis.

MDMercedesGuy

The Turbo 4 doesn't feel much like the old supercharged 4 to me, and I have driven both the old 1.8 and 2.3. I don't see where it's not smooth, and it's no more noisy than the 3.0L. It's a different sound, but it is far from noisy. I don't need to read reviews - I've put about 100 miles behind the wheel on several of them before I ordered mine.

Uh... unless my education is failing me - the C250 has a flatter torque curve, more torque (229 lb/ft versus 221 lb/ft... splitting hairs, but it is more), and the torque curve begins at lower RPM. Mercedes rates them both at 7.1 sec 0-60.
It's all right here

The 300 is a very nice car, but stop trying to purport that it has all of these advantages over the 250 when it doesn't.
Hardly. AWD in a passenger car becomes too much of a crutch to too many people around here, and they feel like they are invincible.
Or it could be that the 4 cylinder is harder to package with the transfer case/the bell housing doesn't match up? Who knows the true reason.

You don't have to like it - but if you are going to try to justify WHY you don't like it - make sure your reasoning is sound and your facts are true.

acr2001

The 6 cylinder is certainly a smoother, more refined engine. 4Matic is awesome, even on wet or dry roads because you always have the ability to put more power down without worrying about traction loss. It's a more confident car. Nothing wrong with the 250, I would have considered it if it came in 4Matic for the cost savings. I am certainly happier to have the 6 cylinder engine - also more reliable.

MDMercedesGuy

Where were you able to find reliability information for the 250? I have dug around but turn up nil.

My thought with 4matic/awd is this. Sure - you can put the power down, but it doesn't help you stop any faster. I'll take my chances with a RWD vehicle and 100lb of sand in the trunk if it gets that bad. This is coming from someone who grew up in the snowbelt, and then moved to an area where it mists or the sun is too bright and my commute quadruples (seriously, the DC metro area is just sad in anything other than overcast).

Sportstick

Agree about the 6's refinement, but not 4MATIC. Back-to-back driving when I had a C300 4MATIC loaner showed it to be a more ponderous and sluggish feeling car. Short of snow/ice, the C has no trouble with traction loss and in rear wheel drive configuration feels much more nimble and responsive, and to use your word, "confident", with the reduction of mass over the front wheels pushing the car into understeer.

MDMercedesGuy

Perhaps it's just that I am used to a gruff sounding and feeling (at times) 3 cylinder behind me - but where does the 250 present its lack of refinement? Not trying to be a smartass at all - its not something I picked up on.

It's definitely more of a higher pitched sound, but I have yet to drive one that vibrates or becomes really audible unless you've got it nailed to the floor. Even then, it seems rather distant and not what I would call loud.

acr2001

No need to find reliability information (although it would be nice). The 250 engine has more parts and isn't naturally aspirated - therefore it's extremely unlikely to be as reliable. You can also look at the past C230 engines reliability to confirm this.

4Matic sure as hell isn't going to help you stop. We had a RWD E class for a while and as soon as there was so much as a dusting of snow - that car was downright dangerous. Slipping and sliding all over the place even in 2nd gear with gentle acceleration. The car was completely useless to us in snow - you couldn't trust it go get you from point A to point B without getting stuck / scaring the crap out of you. Now we did have the stock all season tires on it - obviously had we put snow tires on it things would have been a different story (not to mention snow tires help you stop faster in the snow too). In all honesty I flat out refuse to spend the time and money each year on snow tires. 4Matic fixes that problem, and also makes the car better all year round - every time I am in a 2WD car I end up spinning the wheels.

acr2001

I have to be honest and say that I haven't driven a RWD C in many years - even in NY they aren't too common. I am sure that the addition of 4Matic weighs things down a bit. As far as traction outside of snow, I just like being able to floor it at a green light every once in a while. I'd love to see a C300 VS a C3004Matic on a dry road just to see how much the non-4 wins by. On a wet or snowy road its another story though

acr2001

I guess its all a matter of opinion to some extent. I have driven 4Matics the bulk of the time and I probably don't even realize that they feel so much more 'weighed down' compared to their RWD counterparts. The same can probably be said for Mercs 4 cylinder engines 'refinement' in comparison to the 6.

I'm sure that the C250 4-banger is a hell of a lot more refined than other 4 cyl engines. Hell, it's probably more refined than many cheap 6 cylinder engines. I guess it's all about perspective - at least to some extent.

If I lived in an area with no snow I would have seriously considered the C250. It comes with more standard options at a lower price!

MDMercedesGuy

I don't know if I would necessarily judge it by past engines - a Roots supercharger and a modern Turbo are two very different beasts with very different points of failure.

The only concern I have with the 250 (and 350) engine would be carbon buildup due to it being direct injected. That said - mine is going to see the upper reaches of the tach a few times a week to help keep it blown clean.

AdidasC230

Hate to burst your bubbly on a few arguing points but the 1.8 in your car is the same one in all the old C230Ks and they where not what id call reliable.

Ive been running VMI reports right and left for people still having issues with cam censors failing and oil leaking every where and destroying parts on the car some times to the tune of 2k+

Not only that but they just did a turbo instead of an s/c so this engine the M271 IS still the same old 1.8 that was course like it was in the w203 230K.

Also your denial that the car is more raspy and course up top because you "don't read reviews" doesn't mean its not true.

Also even with extra Tq in you 4. Since obvs as you stated they have the same 0-60 times, then I guess you just proved how negligible the difference is.

Before 2012 you got a smoother engine with the same performance an extra 2 cyc and a proven dependable engine, now you get a respy 4 that gets better gas millage and thats about it.

Also the 4 cyl is a smaller engine and the 4matic system isn't huge so having the excuse they couldn't fit the components under a physically smaller engine doesn't work. I still stick with that it can't push the power. I say that because even Ford, who's become turbo pushing ******, doesn't offer the ecoboost 4 with AWD, but they do keep the less TQ and HP powered 6 and they say it IS because the 4 just can't hack it.

The only reason I feel merc went to the 4 again is because of US fleet standards, its why they took smart back over. Its a band aid so they can still make gas guzzlers people want.

This is all IMO you take it so personally that I hate your smart and don't like the 250. People where not to fond of the 7 speed auto with the M272 that I had (well mine was stick) It wasn't a big deal, its peoples opinion.

As you can see I def have backing about the smoothness of the engine and the dependability.

Sorry I just don't like 250s don't let it ruin your purchase, it seems like your letting it get to you

MDMercedesGuy

It's from the M271 family. That doesn't make it "the same one".
I never said I don't read reviews. I said I don't need to read reviews about it... seat time > reviews. If reviews were authoritative, everyone would read Car and Driver and run out to buy a BMW.
Do us a favor - enlighten all of us with the date in which you became employed by Daimler as an engineer. Ford <> Mercedes.
All manufacturers are doing this - not just MB. BMW is doing it with their new 4 cylinder, GM is going to small turbo 4 cylinders, Ford is doing it. It's a smart move to combat CAFE standards.
Not really. Unless you're the one paying for my car note, your opinion doesn't matter. What does matter is that you have your facts straight if you are going to try to take a stance on something, otherwise you lose credibility (just like with the C350/6 speed debacle from a while back...).

AdidasC230

My facts are straight, the 4 is raspy, it doesnt have the same power delivery or smoothness of the 6 and it is a M271 its called a M271Evo as a matter of fact. Also Im not a diamler engereer but its pretty easy to figure out the reason they didnt do the turbo in AWD, but to make you happy ill emial one of them at MBUSA since we have contact with them, and get you an answer.

Yes turbos are smart to combat cafe, but then again they could have brought down the B class from canada instead of selling the much smaller and not MB family smart car, and could have made a smaller displacement turbo 6 instead.

It all depends. I personally dont feel a 4 should be in a 30K plus luxury car, BMW has that same sediment, Merc apparently doesnt.

Also your personal feeling Vs every one else and reviews still doesnt mean the engine still isnt course or raspy. You can say its as smooth as you want but your closest comparison to drive is your DD smart and its not what any one calls a refined car, you know what I call it LOL

Is the turbo 4 a similar powered engine with better gas millage then the 6? Yes

Is it a raspy, smaller, and different sounding engine, based on an old design that is known for a few issues? Yes

Does that mean its terrible no?
Do I think its not great? Yes
Do I now own a C350 because I wanted one as you can see by my old thread I made an *** out myself admittedly? Yes.
Did I learn from it? Maybe
Has it made me an elitest owning only M272 V6 powered mercs? Yes I think every thing I own is the most amazing ever, even though its prob not. I know I come off as an ahole here but its hard to communicate my sarcasim and I dont hold my tounge