Renntech C250!
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From: Richmond, VA
1989 300TE, 1981 380SL, 1990 325I, 2002 Overland, 1976 BMW 2002,
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2008 W204
) Mercedes has to bring the rest of its diesels to America, to us Americans, they bring amazing figures.
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1989 300TE, 1981 380SL, 1990 325I, 2002 Overland, 1976 BMW 2002,
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2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Is the 467 a direct measurment, and 1.05 the test correction, and another multiplyer (about 1.05 again) that nets the 10% factor noted above?
.
Originally Posted by LandSpeedAir
... after all, for everyday driving torque is more important than HP ...
Can I hear an Amen? It's the original 1% / 99% issue; most people just look at hp specs, and fail to realise that they drive in the specified torque range, and rarely venture to the rpms where max hp is spec'd.
.
Last edited by kevink2; Nov 21, 2011 at 09:06 PM.
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W204 C320 cdi
[quote=kevink2;4927564]The graph reads 467 ft-lbs, and an engine value of 514 ft-lbs, about 10% more. Same for engine hp, 10% more. And, the CF=1.05 which is usually a correction for air temp and density at dyno time.
Is the 467 a direct measurment, and 1.05 the test correction, and another multiplyer (about 1.05 again) that nets the 10% factor noted above?
.
The 467 is a direct measurment yes and the 10% is the calculated loss from crank to wheel i think
Is the 467 a direct measurment, and 1.05 the test correction, and another multiplyer (about 1.05 again) that nets the 10% factor noted above?
.
The 467 is a direct measurment yes and the 10% is the calculated loss from crank to wheel i think
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c350coupe, Gencoupe R-spec
you can get 300 to the wheels, its just going to take more than a tune and exhaust. you will need a turbo and manifold upgrade with injectors. then after tuning youll be passed 300 no doubt.
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plus, the C250 is direct injection, so you can't change the injectors! lol. not like putting in some ID2000's would help out.
I say just max the stock turbo and be done with it.
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now that's where I stop. putting a turbo and manifold upgrade AND injectors just totally defeats the purpose of this car. this car isn't meant to be a fast car. there's no way in hell anyone with any sense would drop that kind of dough and not get a C63.
plus, the C250 is direct injection, so you can't change the injectors! lol. not like putting in some ID2000's would help out.
I say just max the stock turbo and be done with it.
plus, the C250 is direct injection, so you can't change the injectors! lol. not like putting in some ID2000's would help out.
I say just max the stock turbo and be done with it.
I didnt say go upgrade the turbo, manifold, ect. I was simply saying "its possible". Id say the owner of the car wants more power or it wouldnt be at Renntech. obviously this isn't a "tuner" car but it can be treated like one, if so desired.
also it wouldn't cost that much to get this car upgraded, obviously it would cost an arm and a leg at a place like Renntech, Brabus, Kleemann, ect. but if you had the "resources", it would be around 5k.
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I hate it when people say anything along the lines of oh should have got a c63 or why just not get a c63. NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD ONE! a c63 is 20K+ more than a c250. Yeah you could maybe find a used one in the 40's but not everyone likes buying used.
I didnt say go upgrade the turbo, manifold, ect. I was simply saying "its possible". Id say the owner of the car wants more power or it wouldnt be at Renntech. obviously this isn't a "tuner" car but it can be treated like one, if so desired.
also it wouldn't cost that much to get this car upgraded, obviously it would cost an arm and a leg at a place like Renntech, Brabus, Kleemann, ect. but if you had the "resources", it would be around 5k.
I didnt say go upgrade the turbo, manifold, ect. I was simply saying "its possible". Id say the owner of the car wants more power or it wouldnt be at Renntech. obviously this isn't a "tuner" car but it can be treated like one, if so desired.
also it wouldn't cost that much to get this car upgraded, obviously it would cost an arm and a leg at a place like Renntech, Brabus, Kleemann, ect. but if you had the "resources", it would be around 5k.
$5k for turbo, manifold, tuning, etc.? Not even. Especially if you want safety and reliability. Maybe for other cars that are tuner friendly, but certainly not an MB with no off the shelf components or kits. Not for something that will require dynotuning and runs. Resources? I have some of the best resources in the business, who have worked on my GT-R, M5, M3 and even C230. I know how much they charge and $5k is chump change for them, especially to do this type of work. No offense, but tuning a Genesis, a car that has a pretty big tuner market, is nowhere close to tuning a car like this. Hell, tuning my GT-R is way easier than this.
Upgrading the C250 with Renntech parts and a light tune is to make is somewhat more lively and yet still livable as a daily driver, going all out like you said is just ridiculous.
I've have an M271 car and my friends Drexappeal, Flipachu (look them up on the forum) have had the MOST modded C230's and they weren't even pushing big power but I know how much they spent and it was far more than $5k and it wasn't as invasive as putting a new turbo in. They spent considerable money on their cars and it would have been close to buying a C32 and their cars weren't faster than a C320.
Last edited by nlpamg; Nov 23, 2011 at 03:44 PM.
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APR 1.8T ECU TUNE
Add intake and exh for even more.
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From: Richmond, VA
1989 300TE, 1981 380SL, 1990 325I, 2002 Overland, 1976 BMW 2002,
now that's where I stop. putting a turbo and manifold upgrade AND injectors just totally defeats the purpose of this car. this car isn't meant to be a fast car. there's no way in hell anyone with any sense would drop that kind of dough and not get a C63.
plus, the C250 is direct injection, so you can't change the injectors! lol. not like putting in some ID2000's would help out.
I say just max the stock turbo and be done with it.
plus, the C250 is direct injection, so you can't change the injectors! lol. not like putting in some ID2000's would help out.
I say just max the stock turbo and be done with it.
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Yeah thats my plan. It'll be ten years or so beforebsomeone does anything THAT drastic to this engine. Money wise it makes no sense to do that, unless its competing in some crazy 4cyl only class or racing, but even then it would more liekly than not be a spec series anyway.
atpturbo, turbo upgrade car list
.
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Potential performance for the C250, vs C63
Usually big power increases with bigger turbos necessitate added aftermarket parts, such as stronger engine and differential mounts. And the transmission has torque limits too. Basic info suggests this could be a nice fit between the C350 and the C63, but w/o the nice C63 goodies. Anyways, C250 vs C63 (and some C350 info):
$24K ---- Price Difference
63% ----- Better cruising mpg's with C250
13% ----- Less curb wt vs C63 ( & less hp req'd to ~match C63 performance)
201 ------ C250 hp
302 ------ C350 hp
451 ------ C63_ hp
3400 ----- C250 wt
3615 ----- C350 wt
3924 ----- C63_ wt
By performance, I'm assuming 1/4 mile times, perhaps 0-60, where max hp is critical. Could also do a driveability evaluation, using max torque. Starting with the C250 @ 201 eng hp:
3400/3615 x 302 = 284 eng hp to match C350
3400/3942 x 451 = 389 eng hp to match C63
An average target would be (284+389)/2 = 377 eng hp.
-------------------------------------------------
As an example of what could be, a well developed Garrett roller-brg turbo drop-in kit for an Audi 1.8T with 225 stock hp gets you up to 400 hp, around the C63 target.
400 hp ATP kit for 225 hp audi 1.8T
A more driveable option is the 350hp Audi 1.8T kit:
350 hp ATP kit for VW/Audi
This would put the C250 power about midway between C350 and C63.
These kits for vw/audi go for about $2000. I know these are Audi normal FI kits, but they also sell a 440 wheel hp kit for the DI Mazdaspeed6 Turbo, going for $2500 for hardware, figure another $500 for high pressure pump, but literature says one is not needed. Click on dyno for hp and tq curves:
440 HP DI 2.3L Mazdaspeed drop in turbo kit
This is just a paper exercise to show what is possible, assuming the bottom end and trans can take it, if the market is there.
.
Usually big power increases with bigger turbos necessitate added aftermarket parts, such as stronger engine and differential mounts. And the transmission has torque limits too. Basic info suggests this could be a nice fit between the C350 and the C63, but w/o the nice C63 goodies. Anyways, C250 vs C63 (and some C350 info):
$24K ---- Price Difference
63% ----- Better cruising mpg's with C250
13% ----- Less curb wt vs C63 ( & less hp req'd to ~match C63 performance)
201 ------ C250 hp
302 ------ C350 hp
451 ------ C63_ hp
3400 ----- C250 wt
3615 ----- C350 wt
3924 ----- C63_ wt
By performance, I'm assuming 1/4 mile times, perhaps 0-60, where max hp is critical. Could also do a driveability evaluation, using max torque. Starting with the C250 @ 201 eng hp:
3400/3615 x 302 = 284 eng hp to match C350
3400/3942 x 451 = 389 eng hp to match C63
An average target would be (284+389)/2 = 377 eng hp.
-------------------------------------------------
As an example of what could be, a well developed Garrett roller-brg turbo drop-in kit for an Audi 1.8T with 225 stock hp gets you up to 400 hp, around the C63 target.
400 hp ATP kit for 225 hp audi 1.8T
A more driveable option is the 350hp Audi 1.8T kit:
350 hp ATP kit for VW/Audi
This would put the C250 power about midway between C350 and C63.
These kits for vw/audi go for about $2000. I know these are Audi normal FI kits, but they also sell a 440 wheel hp kit for the DI Mazdaspeed6 Turbo, going for $2500 for hardware, figure another $500 for high pressure pump, but literature says one is not needed. Click on dyno for hp and tq curves:
440 HP DI 2.3L Mazdaspeed drop in turbo kit
This is just a paper exercise to show what is possible, assuming the bottom end and trans can take it, if the market is there.
.
Last edited by kevink2; Nov 24, 2011 at 12:59 PM.
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Yeah thats my plan. It'll be ten years or so beforebsomeone does anything THAT drastic to this engine. Money wise it makes no sense to do that, unless its competing in some crazy 4cyl only class or racing, but even then it would more liekly than not be a spec series anyway.
John
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From: Richmond, VA
1989 300TE, 1981 380SL, 1990 325I, 2002 Overland, 1976 BMW 2002,
Potential performance for the C250, vs C63
Usually big power increases with bigger turbos necessitate added aftermarket parts, such as stronger engine and differential mounts. And the transmission has torque limits too. Basic info suggests this could be a nice fit between the C350 and the C63, but w/o the nice C63 goodies. Anyways, C250 vs C63 (and some C350 info):
$24K ---- Price Difference
63% ----- Better cruising mpg's with C250
13% ----- Less curb wt vs C63 ( & less hp req'd to ~match C63 performance)
201 ------ C250 hp
302 ------ C350 hp
451 ------ C63_ hp
3400 ----- C250 wt
3615 ----- C350 wt
3924 ----- C63_ wt
By performance, I'm assuming 1/4 mile times, perhaps 0-60, where max hp is critical. Could also do a driveability evaluation, using max torque. Starting with the C250 @ 201 eng hp:
3400/3615 x 302 = 284 eng hp to match C350
3400/3942 x 451 = 389 eng hp to match C63
An average target would be (284+389)/2 = 377 eng hp.
-------------------------------------------------
As an example of what could be, a well developed Garrett roller-brg turbo drop-in kit for an Audi 1.8T with 225 stock hp gets you up to 400 hp, around the C63 target.
400 hp ATP kit for 225 hp audi 1.8T
A more driveable option is the 350hp Audi 1.8T kit:
350 hp ATP kit for VW/Audi
This would put the C250 power about midway between C350 and C63.
These kits for vw/audi go for about $2000. I know these are Audi normal FI kits, but they also sell a 440 wheel hp kit for the DI Mazdaspeed6 Turbo, going for $2500 for hardware, figure another $500 for high pressure pump, but literature says one is not needed. Click on dyno for hp and tq curves:
440 HP DI 2.3L Mazdaspeed drop in turbo kit
This is just a paper exercise to show what is possible, assuming the bottom end and trans can take it, if the market is there.
.
Usually big power increases with bigger turbos necessitate added aftermarket parts, such as stronger engine and differential mounts. And the transmission has torque limits too. Basic info suggests this could be a nice fit between the C350 and the C63, but w/o the nice C63 goodies. Anyways, C250 vs C63 (and some C350 info):
$24K ---- Price Difference
63% ----- Better cruising mpg's with C250
13% ----- Less curb wt vs C63 ( & less hp req'd to ~match C63 performance)
201 ------ C250 hp
302 ------ C350 hp
451 ------ C63_ hp
3400 ----- C250 wt
3615 ----- C350 wt
3924 ----- C63_ wt
By performance, I'm assuming 1/4 mile times, perhaps 0-60, where max hp is critical. Could also do a driveability evaluation, using max torque. Starting with the C250 @ 201 eng hp:
3400/3615 x 302 = 284 eng hp to match C350
3400/3942 x 451 = 389 eng hp to match C63
An average target would be (284+389)/2 = 377 eng hp.
-------------------------------------------------
As an example of what could be, a well developed Garrett roller-brg turbo drop-in kit for an Audi 1.8T with 225 stock hp gets you up to 400 hp, around the C63 target.
400 hp ATP kit for 225 hp audi 1.8T
A more driveable option is the 350hp Audi 1.8T kit:
350 hp ATP kit for VW/Audi
This would put the C250 power about midway between C350 and C63.
These kits for vw/audi go for about $2000. I know these are Audi normal FI kits, but they also sell a 440 wheel hp kit for the DI Mazdaspeed6 Turbo, going for $2500 for hardware, figure another $500 for high pressure pump, but literature says one is not needed. Click on dyno for hp and tq curves:
440 HP DI 2.3L Mazdaspeed drop in turbo kit
This is just a paper exercise to show what is possible, assuming the bottom end and trans can take it, if the market is there.
.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 119
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From: Richmond, VA
1989 300TE, 1981 380SL, 1990 325I, 2002 Overland, 1976 BMW 2002,
Thomas said they're fitting some Renntech wheels and a few other exterior bits to the car (temporarily) to take a few photos. They're also figuring out how to make a quad or dual exhaust set up, and about how much it would cost. They asked me if I'd like the C63 CF deck spoiler if I got it for a good price, but I declined bc it was going to be about 1000 bucks more than I'd want to spend on a rear deck spoiler, and theres a few other places I'd put a grand into on this car before cosmetics, namely brakes. Has anyone done a brake upgrade on the 250 or 300 yet (that didn't cost a fortune)?
Last edited by Trek1200; Nov 26, 2011 at 01:17 PM.
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2024 G63 AMG, 2022 GLE 63S AMG
Thomas said their fitting some Renntech wheels and a few other exterior bits to the car (temporarily) to take a few photos. They're also figuring out how to make a quad or dual exhaust set up, and about how much it would cost. They asked me if I'd like the C63 CF deck spoiler if I got it for a good price, but I declined bc it was going to be about 1000 bucks more than I'd want to spend on a rear deck spoiler, and theres a few other places I'd put a grand into on this car before cosmetics, namely brakes. Has anyone done a brake upgrade on the 250 or 300 yet (that didn't cost a fortune)?
Thanks for the update
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c350coupe, Gencoupe R-spec
Thomas said they're fitting some Renntech wheels and a few other exterior bits to the car (temporarily) to take a few photos. They're also figuring out how to make a quad or dual exhaust set up, and about how much it would cost. They asked me if I'd like the C63 CF deck spoiler if I got it for a good price, but I declined bc it was going to be about 1000 bucks more than I'd want to spend on a rear deck spoiler, and theres a few other places I'd put a grand into on this car before cosmetics, namely brakes. Has anyone done a brake upgrade on the 250 or 300 yet (that didn't cost a fortune)?
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2010 C300
They come stock with projectors...
No need to retrofit them. You may have to re-aim them, but maybe not even that.
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2010 C300
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2024 G63 AMG, 2022 GLE 63S AMG
All of the C Coupes at my dealer and from what others have posted on here have said that the halogens are stock. The LED DRL's are stock, but i know for sure (and ask anyone else on here) that if you want projectors in your headlights, then you need to get the Lighting package.
