Glyn M Ruck

No JC - you need the extra additive dose in the 229.5 product for valvetrain protection on a gasoline engine. Diesels can get away with lower ash/less additive treat because they do not run aggressive cams & are rev limited by diesel combustion speed.

The VI improver dose in a multigrade oil is huge compared with the max 1.6% additive ash clamp on 229.5 oils.

Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro only has 1.3% Ash as an example.

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 0W-40 Value
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

DonjuanOriginal

Great and shocking thread. Just a few questions. Shell Canada and Usa i'm guessing. Claim nitrogen enriched fuels. Does this help the problem (using 91 octane). And someone I know recommended using Mobil 1 Esp 5w30 sometimes just to help clean emissions in a petrol engine does this help the DI problem. Thanks for the thread topic. Many like me wonder about the present and future of DI engines.

Glyn M Ruck

The Shell fuel will in no way be better than any major in this regard.

The Mobil 1 ESP formulation is not better than the 0W-40 Euro formulation which I consider their best offering for Benz.

DonjuanOriginal

Thanks For the Reply. Cheers!

raceway

IS350 has had similar setup since 06.

MBRedux

... My bad! I meant to add "among high end German Auto builders"... sometimes I type without proof reading...

kevink2

I read an excellent technical report for a na engine, complete with data, that showed maximum ring bypass occured at high manifold conditions, such as idle or lift off at high rpm, where the rings are "unloaded" at TDC + cam overlap condition. This is were a well designed OCC comes in (my 81 Porsche924T came with an OEM oil CatchCan/oil-separator). Also, see gas additive below.

Response:

Catch Can in captive breather system
Techron added to gasoline
Synthetic Single wt oil with no VI improver.

Sinle grade synthetic oil would be off the 229.5 list, but could be used with 20W for cold winter, 30W mild summer, 40W for relentlessly hot Florida summers. 5K / 6mo oil changes req'd.

Just theorising here, NO PROBLEM has been proven at this point.

.

Glyn M Ruck

You are spot on in all regards & a monograde oil would certainly help. The blowby with rings unloaded is high.

EGR is the only other real major issue & there clean fuel becomes critical if we want to control NOx.

kevink2

There is a good forum thread on GDI issues at "bob the oil guy, rip"

GDI systems, Carbon on Valves, Seafoam manifold injection treatment, etc

Note that Mazda had a big issue with GDI turbos back in ~2006, but now offers a similar engine in some of the new SUV's. Wonder if they learned something?

Glyn, any info from your old contacts on this?

.

MBRedux

There have been a number of side by side comparisons over on Vortex using Seafoam, BG Products etc. Sadly neither did anything because adding these products to your fuel never gets to touch the carbonized valves in a Direct Injected engine. Some even opened an inlet into their intake manifold where the application of these products were introduced manually. Not only did they cause significant life reduction to the O2 sensors and catalytic converter(s), they were proven to be of no benefit to carbon reduction or removal whatsoever as the blue/white exhaust smoke finally cleared.

What is clear is that once the carbon starts to accumulate, within the first few weeks of ownership, it can be very difficult to remove it all at once, say at around 20K mile intervals, despite VAG's attempt to reduce these deposits by altering the cone shape of the intake valves. Only the continuous cleaning effect of detergent fuels has any real benefit, thus the reason VAG has now redesigned their fuel delivery system incorporating a dual injection set-up.

Glyn M Ruck

Kevin. The boss of our Techcen in Europe has delegated it to one of his people. As I'm asking a favour I have to be patient. I'll get an answer. In the not too distant future I hope.

kevink2

How was it introduced to the manifold .. by a brake booster hose? Did they use a 2 step method, light flow while idleing, then overwhelm, stall, and let sit? How many VAG ( I've had 2) guys tried this method? Just asking

Seafoam now has a spray that is introduced infront of the TB, for even distribution to all runners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjXVi...layer_embedded

I could see starting this treatment before heavy deposites start.

It's funny to read some of the seafoam reviews, where massive exh smoke if proof of effectiveness ... where it really means nothing.

MBRedux

Yes, 2 step... pure junk IMO.

MBRedux

Hey Glyn.... any word yet?

MBRedux

Glyn M Ruck

There will be no further comment from me on this issue. Please be understanding - this is a social forum. I suggest you ask Benz directly. I'm sure you will find their comments reassuring.

Let them comment directly. Sorry for late reply - our internet connection with the US was down yesterday for 18 hours.

MBRedux

Well no offense Glyn but didn't you say earlier that you would look into it and report back?

Nonetheless, I did call MB tech and they also had no comment... So it's clear that either they have no information, or they wish not to reveal anything that may hurt sales. I was hoping they would have revealed a technological breakthrough or something for I do love the new DI 3.5L engine!!

Oh well... we'll soon see in about 20,000 miles if these new engines start caking up or not.

kevink2

I'm heading to the Phila AutoShow. I'll bug the MB guys/gals there.

MBRedux

Good idea! I'm going to the Wash DC show tonight, then to the NY International Auto Show in the spring.... I'll do the same at both!

MBRedux

Just returned from the Wash DC Auto Show.... Yikes... the reps were worthless.... "Direct Injection?... What's that? All of our cars have Blue Efficiency motors..." OMG, VW had better informed floor crews!

I'll wait for New York.

kevink2

Same thing from philly. But I did have a good chat there with a DFI consultant for Ford. Very sharp Asian gentleman.

" OMG, VW had better informed floor crews!" Same deal up here. VW had 3 gals (with slight german accents) that knew more about the product than the 2 empty headed, handsome, well dressed sales guys for MB.

Note the show was 1/2 the size before the market dropped. Used to have a great tuner's section.

.

Kevin82

Isn't Blue Efficiency just a marketing term from MB that relates to how the overall car is made to be fuel efficient and not just in regards to the engine (ie: aero dynamics, weight, etc)?

Glyn M Ruck

Yes!

2012c350

To expand on Glyn's correct answer...

From: http://vps109.vpswin.dk/mercedes/Blu...e_11_09_DK.pdf

The BlueEFFICIENCY measures: the Mercedes-
Benz efficiency package. An engineer who wants
to save fuel needs one radical idea or a whole
raft of small – but still very well thought-out –
solutions. As in our BlueEFFICIENCY vehicles,
for example. In developing these models, our en-
gineers analysed every detail to identify those
which could be made to work even more effi-
ciently. The numerous measures they devel-
oped as a result range from drag reduction
and lightweight materials to an intelligent en-
ergy management system and an improved,
more energy-efficient power steering system.
Each of these enhancements reduces fuel con-
sumption. Although only a small amount is
saved by each measure individually, their com-
bined impact is remarkable: the combination of
the Mercedes-Benz BlueEFFICIENCY package
and our efficient engines cuts fuel consumption –
and with it CO2 emissions – by up to 23%.

alsyli

As someone who just purchase a C250 (and is very much enjoying it aside from the overly busy ride, which I was sort of expecting) and is too lazy to e-mail MB USA right now, I'm just going to read into this comment and be re-assured w/o having to contact them (yes....?).