What is wrong with us?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360
Likes: 3
From: Pittsburgh, PA
2020 C363 S / 2007 SLK55 / 2016 F150 4x4 / 1998 Cobra Convertible
Its an engineering improvement if you want to be in the race. Its all personal prefererence...If your going to show up in a stock cobra at a track to compete, you might as well turn around and go home. Its all for fun. The fun of it is to win if your into tracking your car, even more fun wrenching on your car to make it competitive with the other cars out there. But realistically, taking a stock car to the track is great, because that just gives you a base to start with so you can really respect and know what the aftermarket parts do for your car.
Simple things like High flow filters/exhaust significantly improve throttle response and give a little bump in power. Lowering springs will give your car a lower CG so you dont have lost energy going through corners from body roll. (Sway bars too). Things like a strut brace will help keep your handling nice , tight, and stiff too around corners also preventing lost energy from body roll. Front splitter, will greatly reduce over and understeer. Big break kit....allows you to brake really late for those entries into a corner...i could go on and on... and these are just the basics. All which will improve your car in that aspect if your into it.
Simple things like High flow filters/exhaust significantly improve throttle response and give a little bump in power. Lowering springs will give your car a lower CG so you dont have lost energy going through corners from body roll. (Sway bars too). Things like a strut brace will help keep your handling nice , tight, and stiff too around corners also preventing lost energy from body roll. Front splitter, will greatly reduce over and understeer. Big break kit....allows you to brake really late for those entries into a corner...i could go on and on... and these are just the basics. All which will improve your car in that aspect if your into it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
Likes: 8
From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
I dont let warranty tie me down as to what I can do to my car, nor have I personally ever had a warranty issue with my C300 or G35. Your bet was "I'd bet $100 to a $1 that the majority of changes don't improve it." not anything to do with warranty. My offer still stands.
Last edited by xXHotelCrazyXx; Jan 28, 2012 at 10:45 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360
Likes: 3
From: Pittsburgh, PA
2020 C363 S / 2007 SLK55 / 2016 F150 4x4 / 1998 Cobra Convertible
"don't improve it" from an engineering perspective. Anyhow, have fun with your mods. Heck, maybe you're right. Because my cars can run faster in the quarter and better top speed as well as faster track times on a road course maybe I'm a better engineer than what Ford employs... I'll add that to my resume. :-)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
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From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
All various engine/suspension parts on the car had to be/and were engineered. So are aftermarket parts, so how you can say it doesnt improve it from an engineering perspective? They are directly related. You think these companies have someone sitting on a cad system with no degree and slap an aftermarket part on a car with no real world testing? No, its trial and error basis.
Last edited by xXHotelCrazyXx; Jan 28, 2012 at 10:54 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360
Likes: 3
From: Pittsburgh, PA
2020 C363 S / 2007 SLK55 / 2016 F150 4x4 / 1998 Cobra Convertible
All various engine/suspension parts on the car had/and were engineered. So were are aftermarket parts, so how you can say it doesnt improve it from an engineering perspective? They are directly related. You think these companies have someone sitting on a cad system with no degree and slap an aftermarket part on a car with no real world testing? No, its trial and error basis.
Why do you think the mfr doesn't equip the cars with these parts in the first place? Get a new Shelby GT500 with the SuperSnake package with the extra hp tuned engine and now you have an expensive high-performance vehicle that is not warranted...because it's an accepted risk that the performance changes will impact the longevity of the vehicle. If my changes increase the performance without any negative effects on the existing vehicles characteristics then that's what I call an engineering improvement. And yes, there are some changes where this is possible, but for the most part it's a sacrifice.
I feel that I've caused this thread to take a major tangent, so I'll allow you to have an uncontested closing reply.
Enjoy your vehicle(s)...
Last edited by 2012c350; Jan 28, 2012 at 10:58 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
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From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
Mercedes tends to have more maintenance issues than most auto manufacturers ALONE without any aftermarket parts. There really isnt any maintenance issues with any of the parts I listed. Just simple R&R. All the parts on my G35 have a lifetime warranty (all performance), hell even the wheels on my wifes merc has a lifetime warranty.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360
Likes: 3
From: Pittsburgh, PA
2020 C363 S / 2007 SLK55 / 2016 F150 4x4 / 1998 Cobra Convertible
Mercedes tends to have more maintenance issues than most auto manufacturers ALONE without any aftermarket parts. There really isnt any maintenance issues with any of the parts I listed. Just simple R&R. All the parts on my G35 have a lifetime warranty (all performance), hell even the wheels on my wifes merc has a lifetime warranty.
From what I've read on other threads I was beginning to suspect this... **sigh**.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
Likes: 8
From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
I love the car and thats a sacrifice im willing to take...Gorgeous car, 4 year warranty/48kmiles is horrible. I really do think the build quality is great, but at the same time, there are a lot of suspect areas.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 90
From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
Before you throw up Hyundai or such, take a look at the fine print of what is covered and what is not.
Super Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 816
Likes: 21
2008 W204
I think that is definitely true, when I was looking for 204s, any one that was modded I stayed away from. Other wise its personal taste, I myself prefer small updates to mods like new style mirrors and the 2012 taillights.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,714
Likes: 56
From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I read lots of stories on this forum about how MB USA do not take the consumer seriously.
Why would they when they spend $ millions on design , engineering , drivability ect then the car is trashed by people who do not respect MB's ability to make a beautiful vehicle.
I can't understand how people can waste a car like this . Too much disposable income ? With the money spent on modifications + the new car price one could buy a Porsche.
My apologies to the folk who enjoy MB's standards.
Why would they when they spend $ millions on design , engineering , drivability ect then the car is trashed by people who do not respect MB's ability to make a beautiful vehicle.
I can't understand how people can waste a car like this . Too much disposable income ? With the money spent on modifications + the new car price one could buy a Porsche.
My apologies to the folk who enjoy MB's standards.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 4
From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
Its an engineering improvement if you want to be in the race. Its all personal prefererence...If your going to show up in a stock cobra at a track to compete, you might as well turn around and go home. Its all for fun. The fun of it is to win if your into tracking your car, even more fun wrenching on your car to make it competitive with the other cars out there. But realistically, taking a stock car to the track is great, because that just gives you a base to start with so you can really respect and know what the aftermarket parts do for your car.
Simple things like High flow filters/exhaust significantly improve throttle response and give a little bump in power. Lowering springs will give your car a lower CG so you dont have lost energy going through corners from body roll. (Sway bars too). Things like a strut brace will help keep your handling nice , tight, and stiff too around corners also preventing lost energy from body roll. Front splitter, will greatly reduce over and understeer. Big break kit....allows you to brake really late for those entries into a corner...i could go on and on... and these are just the basics. All which will improve your car in that aspect if your into it.
Simple things like High flow filters/exhaust significantly improve throttle response and give a little bump in power. Lowering springs will give your car a lower CG so you dont have lost energy going through corners from body roll. (Sway bars too). Things like a strut brace will help keep your handling nice , tight, and stiff too around corners also preventing lost energy from body roll. Front splitter, will greatly reduce over and understeer. Big break kit....allows you to brake really late for those entries into a corner...i could go on and on... and these are just the basics. All which will improve your car in that aspect if your into it.
) I for example wouldn't want my C300 dropped any amount - it's low enough as is when I hit pot holes, speed bumps, road debris, and especially snow. BBK is going to increase unsprung weight and make my acceleration even slower, plus it's going to reduce MPG. K&N air filter is going to increase engine wear and risk fouling my MAF. Aftermarket air intake is going to greatly increase my risk of hydro-locking the engine, plus the intake on our cars is one of the best designed intakes out there - most aftermarket intakes just suck in hot air and decrease performance. Testing them on a dyno with the hood open is producing false gains. This is why no one wants to buy a modded car!Now in your defense, some mild mods are awesome and make sense plus they customize the car because maybe you don't deal with the speed bumps and snow that I deal with. If you can do a tasteful mod and do it right then more power to you. The problem is that 90% of them are either overdone (dropping the damn car 1/2" from the pavement for example), cheap parts, improperly installed, etc. Many mods ruin other functions of the car.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
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From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
You need to get off your engineering high horse, this car is far from perfect, suck it up and stock acting like its a superior machine, when its riddled with problems. In my opinion the engineers havent done the best of job with this car and it gets a Low C- in my opinion. Many items left stock ruin other functions of the car...street goes both ways, but those of you who try to sound like some high and mighty automotive enthusiast who say engineers did this or engineers did that...that just sounds silly. This car is not a work of art, and there are lots of things wrong that engineers should have gotten fired over...one thing in particular is excessive engine bearing wear causing knocking on startup and oil consumption. Where does "buying" a modded car come into play? Most people part their cars out before selling them...I for one would not buy a modded car because I prefer to mod it my way. lol do you really think having a bbk on your car will show a drop in your MPG that you will actually notice if any? You sound ridiculous...Unsprung weight from a bbk? That is virtually cancelled out by having a proper drop with sway bars and strut braces. You make it seem like they are nothing but negative effects on a car...which is why you choose not to mod your car. All of the mods I have listed are for those who want a better driving experience. If you chose to live a bland and boring life, go drive a stock car. Thats your decision.
Last edited by xXHotelCrazyXx; Jan 29, 2012 at 01:10 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 4
From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
You need to get off your engineering high horse, this car is far from perfect, suck it up and stock acting like its a superior machine, when its riddled with problems. In my opinion the engineers havent done the best of job with this car and it gets a Low C- in my opinion. Many items left stock ruin other functions of the car...street goes both ways, but those of you who try to sound like some high and mighty automotive enthusiast who say engineers did this or engineers did that...that just sounds silly. This car is not a work of art, and there are lots of things wrong that engineers should have gotten fired over...one thing in particular is excessive engine bearing wear causing knocking on startup and oil consumption. Where does "buying" a modded car come into play? Most people part their cars out before selling them...I for one would not buy a modded car because I prefer to mod it my way.
The problem is you can't find a drop that is going to improve overall handling / performance. It's going to improve one thing at the cost of another. Same is true of most wheels I see people installing - sacrificing side wall thickness which reduces tire life, increases risk of suspension and wheel damage, etc. Now if someone were to replace their 18" wheel with a forged 18" wheel that decreases weight, I think I would praise that mod! I'm certainly not saying 'all mods are bad' by any means.
Last edited by acr2001; Jan 29, 2012 at 01:10 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
Likes: 8
From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
My H&R SS springs improved handling/performance...I prefer a stiffer ride than a spongy one. I prefer to have feed back from the road when im driving on it. Mods that may make certain things worse, make things better on the other end. That is why its up to the DRIVER what they prefer, not what someone else on the internet thinks.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 4
From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
My H&R SS springs improved handling/performance...I prefer a stiffer ride than a spongy one. I prefer to have feed back from the road when im driving on it. Mods that may make certain things worse, make things better on the other end. That is why its up to the DRIVER what they prefer, not what someone else on the internet thinks.
If your H&R springs make the difference you want, and were properly installed, and you didn't drop you car to some insanely low height - then your mods are great, you should be happy!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Monterey Bay
2011 C300 Sport, 2007 Nissan Titan Crew Cab
Well this thread certainly went down a different road than I was expecting. I can see logic in both sides and agree with all of what has been said. I don't like buying modded cars either, it gives me the impression that the previous owner drove the car "harder" than one that is bone stock. I also know that most people put their car back to stock for the most part before selling it, so you never really know what your going to get. I have a friend that works for a turbo company in the bay area and they lease new cars, do their R & D on them, beat the **** out of them and then put them back to stock and turn them back in to the dealer. I don't really see how lowering springs affect cars as bad as some people are saying. Granted the stock shocks are not designed to drive around at the lower ride height so they will wear out faster, but as long as the install is done correctly and then an alignment is done you should be all good. There are a lot of mods that are done purely for aesthetic reasons and don't affect performance one way or the other they just do it to alter the car and personalize it. As far as performance goes on the w204 I probably won't bother. I didn't buy this car 'cause it's fast, it's not. My girlfriend thinks it is probably due to her last car being a grand cherokee. I don't have the heart to tell her it's the slowest Merc available, will lose off the line to a civic si and I'd probably take it off the line in my crew cab truck, but that's besides the point.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Monterey Bay
2011 C300 Sport, 2007 Nissan Titan Crew Cab
As far as whether something is an engineering improvement or not I believe it is a personal preference. If someone prefers a stiffer, sportier ride over the stock suspension, than to them it is an improvement. Obviously not everyone likes that. The engineers at MB or any other car company do their best to provide a happy medium that will appeal to the masses and make them the most money in sales. Same goes for exhaust notes and many other things on our cars. There are some things on the w204's that can certainly be improved over stock, but for the most part I think the cars are pretty damn nice. I think we can all agree on that, otherwise we would be having this debate on some other manufacturers forum.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 4
From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
As far as whether something is an engineering improvement or not I believe it is a personal preference. If someone prefers a stiffer, sportier ride over the stock suspension, than to them it is an improvement. Obviously not everyone likes that. The engineers at MB or any other car company do their best to provide a happy medium that will appeal to the masses and make them the most money in sales. Same goes for exhaust notes and many other things on our cars. There are some things on the w204's that can certainly be improved over stock, but for the most part I think the cars are pretty damn nice. I think we can all agree on that, otherwise we would be having this debate on some other manufacturers forum.
Agreed!
