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Lets talk about tunning and the C250

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Lets talk about tunning and the C250

 
Old 05-06-2012, 05:18 AM
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Lets talk about tunning and the C250

I come from a turboed 4 back ground previous owner of a EVO and a STI. It amazes me the lack of tunning options for the C250. You have companys such as Renntech who dont even have a tune out yet (IMO this unacceptable and shows that this company is mis lead and mis run). The options that we have is a overpriced Brabus piggyback that puts some decent power numbers down but cost a fortune and a cheap BMS tunning solution that is limited. What I can not get my mind around is that the most simple and cost effective way of tuning is not even explored on these cars. That solution is a tune with a downpipe, every japanese turbo option runs this. Its cheap, effective and puts some serious power down.

Some will argue that the limitation is the small turbo. I dont know what turbo the C250 runs but I cant be smaller than the WRX TDO4 setup that actually if very small on a realitivley unefficient engine in the boxer 4. But guess what with the proper tunning and hardware these put down close to 300 whp. True its a 2.5 litter but the is still no excuse why these little 1.8 litter engines are not putting down 220 whp as of yet. Feel free to discuss.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:45 AM
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I have experience from the subaru wrx world. My 06 subie wrx put down 286whp and 295wtq on 17psi. I had everything in it- sti turbo, sti intercooler, coils, plugs, fuel pump, injectors, a few others. Those cars have been out for a long time and have a lot more owners that are looking for performance, If the demand for tuning and performance is givin than im sure some companies will make some things. I have some questions for the C250, How much boost does it run stock? What size turbo? With a boosted 4 there will always be options for performance. Im sure there will be better options from OE and EC very soon. Im sure there will be people messing with the turbo eventually.. Can the C250 be ordered in a 6spd manual?
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by StuttgartUSA View Post
Some will argue that the limitation is the small turbo. I dont know what turbo the C250 runs but I cant be smaller than the WRX TDO4 setup that actually if very small on a realitivley unefficient engine in the boxer 4. But guess what with the proper tunning and hardware these put down close to 300 whp. True its a 2.5 litter but the is still no excuse why these little 1.8 litter engines are not putting down 220 whp as of yet. Feel free to discuss.

Reality is there's minimal demand for it. I don't have stats but I'm inclined to think the majority of peeps buying C250's are doing it to modify them or try to get serious power. I too came from an Evo where I had it tuned/modded/etc and there was heaps of stuff available- but that's because Evos are popular with tuners and customers buy them to tune them and the cycle continues.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:48 PM
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Finally, real owners who understand the frustration of sourcing parts for the CGi models. I too came from the Subaru camp having a 04 stage 2 wrx. When I took over my fiancee's C200 I was disappointed at the dismal options for it compared to the C300 and up models.

Having said that, in my search I have learned that one of the major reasons for the lack of tuning options or rather REAL tuning options is that the ECU is locked out by Benz. Now if the turbo models were as popular as the GTR then surely some company would have cracked the code by now. But it isn't and they haven't, hence all the piggyback style "tunes".

Even more annoying like the OP mentioned is the lack of information on the turbo set up. I've googled myself silly trying to find the specs and have come up with nil. Closest I've come is random images online when the new CGi engine was being showcased. Even more disappointing is that this isn't Benz's dance with turbo cars but they haven't improved or learned much IMO. One of the major issues my fiancee has with her C200 is the turbo lag/throttle delay, there have been multiple times when she either couldn't merge fast enough or almost rammed into the car in front of her while merging.

I think Benz could've done better but they didn't want to.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Knightmare69 View Post
Finally, real owners who understand the frustration of sourcing parts for the CGi models. I too came from the Subaru camp having a 04 stage 2 wrx. When I took over my fiancee's C200 I was disappointed at the dismal options for it compared to the C300 and up models.

Having said that, in my search I have learned that one of the major reasons for the lack of tuning options or rather REAL tuning options is that the ECU is locked out by Benz. Now if the turbo models were as popular as the GTR then surely some company would have cracked the code by now. But it isn't and they haven't, hence all the piggyback style "tunes".

Even more annoying like the OP mentioned is the lack of information on the turbo set up. I've googled myself silly trying to find the specs and have come up with nil. Closest I've come is random images online when the new CGi engine was being showcased. Even more disappointing is that this isn't Benz's dance with turbo cars but they haven't improved or learned much IMO. One of the major issues my fiancee has with her C200 is the turbo lag/throttle delay, there have been multiple times when she either couldn't merge fast enough or almost rammed into the car in front of her while merging.

I think Benz could've done better but they didn't want to.
Locked or not, Tim Bailey of Cobb tuning unlocked the GTR super encrypted ECU in less than two days when he got his hands on it. Simply put its a lack of desire. Another thing of course there is a lack of demand for it at this point but produce it get some threads on it and bamm all of a sudden you got demand for it. Beleive it or not these Turbo 4 applications are superior to there V6 counterparts. One thing that I have noticed is that the Euro tuning community is years behing the domestic and Japanese tuning communitys.
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:14 PM
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basic economics 101. supply and demand and still going to be a relatively slow car even with a tune. i'd say majority of the people, who are not on the car forums, who buy the c250 are not looking for speed as a first priority. it's a nice looking car that gets pretty good gas mileage. the evolution and sti caters towards a whole different demographic that is looking for a cheap, fast car.
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Old 05-06-2012, 03:22 PM
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I wouldnt call the 250 slow, with the downsizing of engines the norm now. Its in the middle, still enough punch down low and top. Drive my wifes Corsa than you would think the 250 is a rocket ship. I read where 74% of cars sold have less than 160 BHP. The top of the line engines in most models only make up for 10% of sales. So in Realative terms the C250 is far from slow. I think that we take things out of context and look at other cars that have more HP, they actually make a very small percantage of what is out on the road.

If you look at three of the top meduim sized sedans on the market there base engines all produce less than 180 bhp and less than 180 lbs of torque. There performance is all Low to mid 8s in the zero to sixty bracket. These cars with the small engines make up for 80% or more of those models car sales. They have little to No tuning options in them and if they did they wouldnt even break the 200 bhp mark.

A little tuning on these C250s and guess what your Benz in now in the top 10% of cars in performance standards. Im hearing that MB is bringing over the A class with the same engine and suppose to be the bulk of there sales. So Im sure with more use of this engine in the Mercedes range than the tuning options will come out of nowhere. Actually I do think that Renntech will realease there tuning in the next couple of months and I will probably jump on it and be happy. The days of ultra fast cars are behind me but I will spend a little more money for a little extra pop.

It is a total lack of forsight you have a European market domintated by the small 1.8t engine you have pending regulation by the EPA on hp marks and ever increasing gas prices. This is the Future like or not and these tuning companys need to realize that.

Last edited by StuttgartUSA; 05-06-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:02 PM
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Thats all true. Get some people together and get tuners to make a product! If they had a 6spd for the 250 I would pick one up!
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:21 AM
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I'm looking for some kind of tuning option for the 1.8. I just picked up this car on lease and I have to say I am very disappointed with this motor. The turbo lag is godawful. Is the only tuning option the JB+ at the moment? I'm hoping to reduce turbo lag as much as possible for as little as possible.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:15 PM
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I have the C180CGI with also the lag.... Have putted the Sprintbooster on last week, but thats not my thing on the CGI. On my C180 kompressor it was wonderfull, but the CGI doesnt drive good with it, much to sensitive.

My powerbox was off, have to put it back soon, it was driving much better with it. Less lag and more torque.

But i prefer an ECU tune, so hope this is soon available ....
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:08 AM
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hello everyone, this is my first post on mbworld and would like to comment on this topic. i currently own an 04 sti with a solid build (gt30r, 430whp) so i too come from the turbo 4 background. im training to be an mb tech and we have been discussing the c250 a little bit in class.

i have been toying with the idea of purchasing a c250 and modifying it a bit to get the most out of the forced induction motor. its too bad there isn't much support yet but i wouldnt worry too much just yet. remember that mb has just recently delved into a 'budget friendly' turbocharged platform so the aftermarket has to adjust accordingly to the demand when it shows up. most ppl dont think of mb when it comes to 'budget performance' so this new concept needs time to 'take off' if u will. this platform should see a hefty increase in performance options in the future simply because it will become cheaper and more accessible to those who want to modify it.

for now tho, if u really want to get companies involved, u have to talk to them. u have to let these companies know that the need for such products are out there. i think the best way to do this is to get as many ppl as possible to sign up for the production of parts and tuning. ive seen this method work several times over in the subaru world. once they see the need, they will deliver cuz u know they want to make that money. anyway, hoping for the best here.

Last edited by kendostick; 06-23-2012 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:11 PM
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:04 PM
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Has anyone tried kleemanns tuning and performance parts?

http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/E...I_M271EVO.aspx
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MBfinatic View Post
Has anyone tried kleemanns tuning and performance parts?

http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/E...I_M271EVO.aspx
I have the Sports cat and downpipe, also a tuning box (same as k-box)

It deff better, but for a turbo car its a small difference.

A friend of my have an Audi A6 and with ECU tune he have 60hp more.

Also a 1.8 turbo
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:39 PM
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Did you by chance dyno it? Is it kleemann products or something different?
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MBfinatic View Post
Did you by chance dyno it? Is it kleemann products or something different?
Not Kleemann, but 99% sure its the same manufacturer.

No Dyno done before or after .
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:47 PM
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We will be releasing a down pipe, mid-pipe and rear section exhaust for the C250 for sale on November 10th. We should have plenty of inventory to cover any orders so there is absolutely no reason to pre-order one. We will release pricing and photos right before the SEMA show.

Our downpipe uses no cat and it also uses all the factory flange connections and the factory brace. The mid-pipe also uses all the factory connections and brace as well. The rear section of the exhaust uses everything factory too and it also uses the factory tip with an adjustment on it so you can install the tip to your liking.

All of these parts can be bought altogether or separately because they will all fit to the stock components individually as well as to our components. We spent a lot of money to add a machine to our production process to make those factory Mercedes connections.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. We are really looking forward to making parts for your car and we plan on having a pretty nice sized product line in the future. All we are working on is Mercedes turbocharged cars.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:41 PM
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

Our downpipe uses no cat and it also uses all the factory flange connections and the factory brace. The mid-pipe also uses all the factory connections and brace as well. The rear section of the exhaust uses everything factory too and it also uses the factory tip with an adjustment on it so you can install the tip to your liking.

All of these parts can be bought altogether or separately because they will all fit to the stock components individually as well as to our components. We spent a lot of money to add a machine to our production process to make those factory Mercedes connections.
While a catless DP is optimal for flow, for many of us I think it's more a question of legality, or maybe just me here in HK. Also, as the cat has been removed, has your company run into any check engine light issues? You know how sensitive newer car ECU's are.

How much bigger is the piping compared to OEM?

Does your midpipe have a resonator or is it straight piped? My C200 has a secondary cat along with the resonator in the midpipe.

I'm excited to see how these new products turn out, will your company be able to ship to Hong Kong? Also Sound clips would be appreciated.

Last edited by Knightmare69; 09-06-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Knightmare69 View Post
While a catless DP is optimal for flow, for many of us I think it's more a question of legality, or maybe just me here in HK. Also, as the cat has been removed, has your company run into any check engine light issues? You know how sensitive newer car ECU's are.

How much bigger is the piping compared to OEM?

Does your midpipe have a resonator or is it straight piped? My C200 has a secondary cat along with the resonator in the midpipe.

I'm excited to see how these new products turn out, will your company be able to ship to Hong Kong? Also Sound clips would be appreciated.
We will have sound clips and we will ship worldwide. As for the legality, our downpipes are made for off-road use only, they are not legal in the states either. Our mid-pipe uses no resonator.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:14 AM
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This thread is fun to read. But seriously if you are looking for serious power. Pick the C63 and go crazy with whatever mods available.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MarcuMcall View Post
I don't have stats but I'm inclined to think the majority of peeps buying C250's are doing it to modify them or try to get serious power.
Sorry but I'm not sure what the relevance of your post is or who the response is aimed at. And I'd like to see where you get these stats to back up your post considering the number of C250 sales and how many are actually on this or any other Benz board. From what I see most of the members here actually own C300+ models.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by PinoyC250 View Post
This thread is fun to read. But seriously if you are looking for serious power. Pick the C63 and go crazy with whatever mods available.
Would be an option if the C63 was the same price as in the US.

Bought my C180 for the same price as the C63 in the US.
The C63 price here is about USD 127K
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Knightmare69 View Post
While a catless DP is optimal for flow, for many of us I think it's more a question of legality, or maybe just me here in HK. Also, as the cat has been removed, has your company run into any check engine light issues? You know how sensitive newer car ECU's are.

How much bigger is the piping compared to OEM?

Does your midpipe have a resonator or is it straight piped? My C200 has a secondary cat along with the resonator in the midpipe.

I'm excited to see how these new products turn out, will your company be able to ship to Hong Kong? Also Sound clips would be appreciated.
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We will have sound clips and we will ship worldwide. As for the legality, our downpipes are made for off-road use only, they are not legal in the states either. Our mid-pipe uses no resonator.
I already try to use downpipe without cat, but the result are CEL go on. I drove to my dealer and they said the error for CEL are Cat Bank1 is unavailable. I change right away to the original. So far so good.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by paleface View Post
I already try to use downpipe without cat, but the result are CEL go on. I drove to my dealer and they said the error for CEL are Cat Bank1 is unavailable. I change right away to the original. So far so good.
Anytime you remove a cat you will have a check engine light go on for the secondary o2 sensor. That sensor has nothing to do with the tune of the car, it just has to do with emissions compliance. Because your car is now not emissions compliant, you will have a check engine light. You will have to have the rear o2 shut off with a tune in order to not have a check engine light.

In some cases you can move the rear o2 sensor out of the way of the exhaust path and that will prevent a light on some cars. I do not know if that is the case with this car.
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