ktran350

Hey guys. I been trying to read up on the reliability of the W204 and found a few threads back in '07 and such. Just wanted to know what is everyone's opinion on this? The reason why I ask is because my shocks are starting to go and I know I will have to replace it. I also got an extended warranty 5/75k. I was thinking about canceling it and using the refund to either get bilsteins shocks/struts or the H&R coilover system. The extended warranty was about $3,300. My car is an '08 with at 41,xxx. What do you guys think of the w204 reliability so far?

Acapulco Bill

Identifix give the 2008 W204 a perfect score:
http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz...html?sub=sedan

TrueDelta has more detailed reports on the C350
http://www.truedelta.com/

Remember that the shocks in the W204 are electronically dampened and form an integral system with the ESP, as well as changing their dampening according to the driving consitions.

If the extended warranty covers the shocks, it is highly recommended to let them service and return the W204 back to its original condition.

ktran350

Really? I didn't know the W204's shocks are electronically controlled? So aftermarket shocks won't work for an upgrade?

Acapulco Bill

@ktran350: Depends if you have the Advanced Agillity Package option. In any case a major marketing point of the W204 is its ride and suspension safety features. Things for a decade have not been so simple as "throwing on some Bilsteins". The shocks in the W204 are a result of millions of hours of "test driving" through computer modeling, and set an industry record. There are major diferences between the Luxury and Sport suspension characteristics. One should get the full options list printout from the MB dealer's Star and grab a C Class catalog. It is doubtful that aftermarket suspension changes will improve the W204's performance, or more importantly, its SAFETY.

Here is a description from a late 2007 review of the C class:

The steering of the new C-Class is more direct than the previous model's. The standard Agility Control suspension controls the shock absorber forces according to the driving situation. When driving normally with low shock absorber inputs, damping forces are reduced, with a noticeable improvement in ride comfort. In faster driving, maximum damping forces come into play.

Mercedes-Benz has developed an Advanced Agility Package that offers the driver a choice of two programs, Sport and Comfort. The shock absorber for each wheel has infinitely variable electronic control. A new speed-sensitive steering with a more direct ratio, variable centering, and adaptation to acceleration and automatic transmission shift points will be included.

Acapulco Bill

In addition, if your 2008 W204 was the Sport version with the AMG package, this suspension already has lowered, stiffer springs and different shocks. Even the electric steering control electronics are changed to provide different (read quicker reacting) characterstics, all tied into the ESP, as part of the integral Stability Control.

One can be sure that Bilsteins and H&R coilovers will provide a "different" ride. But will it be better and SAFER? In that instant one needs to avoid a life-threatening situation on the road, how will the Bilstein/H&R combo perform? Will it respond integrally with the steering, and the Agility Control ESP system which takes into account momentum, steering wheel angle, individual rotation of each wheel, braking pressure and measurements from the yaw sensor, to provide a response that could save you and your family's lives from tragedy?

Besides, to finance this substitution, you propose canceling or refunding the extended warranty And if the transmission has a major problem, the air conditioning fails, or the rare but dreaded EIS problem rears its head, whom will pay for THAT?

BTW I am a great Bilstein fan. Have a set of 4 for my V12. However the shocks have been sitting in their original boxes nearly two years, waiting for the moment when the $2,000 investment required just for a proper installation with complete replacement of all rubber parts and bushings, and a complete suspension realignment to 0.08 degrees is warranted.

ktran350

Thanks for the info Acapulco. I was debating if the extended warranty was needed and how reliable the W204's are now since it's been about 4 years now. When I had bought the car the previous owner had installed H&R SS springs with OEM shocks. So I'm on the fence as of to install OEM springs and shocks or upgrade to aftermarket shocks and springs. I do no however have the agility package. I have everything else except for the memory seats and the agility package.

Acapulco Bill

Perhaps other readers could comment if installing non-OEM shocks unbalances the synergy of the various parts of the Agility Control integrated system - steering, suspension, shocks, brakes, ESP and PreSAFE - especially for the W204 Sport with the AMG package.

RLE

Not in the 2008. And despite the fancy terminology, the ride is no better than in the W203 although I'm sure the parts cost more.

alsyli

Where are you reading that the Agility Control is an "integrated" system? As far as I know, "Agility Control" is simply marketing-speak for a shock absorber (http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...y-control.html).

Are you perhaps thinking of the Advanced Agility Package? (which, as another poster pointed out, wasn't available in the US in 2008)

ktran350

That's what I was thinking. The agility package wasn't available till 09 and it was an opinion. The so called agility control on the 08 was nothing more than anti sliding control that either provided more power to one of the wheels or braking of one of the wheels to provide traction.

alsyli

Was it? I really do just think it (plain "Agility Control") is referring to shock absorbers and nothing else....

Acapulco Bill

The "Advanced Agility Package" which electronically varied the dampening on the shocks, is not a candidate for substitution by non-OEM shocks.

The concept of "Agility Control" was to integrate steering, suspension-shocks and active ESP including stability control through through braking, Pre-Safe, etc., into a single system with known response to a wide range of driving and/or emergency situations.

Substituting non-OEM shocks and springs will alter the parameters of spring and dampening rates intgreated into the system, the controlled steering and ESP braking may react in unpredictable ways. Its a safety issue. Think of it as substituting the wings and landing gear on an airplane.

alsyli

Still not sure where you're reading that the Agility Control is an "integrated" system. This is directly from the MB USA website:

"Engineered specifically for performance driving, AGILITY CONTROL automatically adjusts the individual shock absorbers based on the road surface and the driver's current driving style. Valving inside each shock absorber automatically firms up during stronger body motions for sharper handling feedback and stability, and reduces the damping rates during gentler motions for a smoother, more composed ride."


It mentions nothing about the steering or ESC. ::shrug::

Acapulco Bill

Actually: from MB

AGILITY CONTROL – this is the term used by Mercedes-Benz for all new and further developments that improve both comfort and agility in equal measure. This standard package includes the AGILITY CONTROL suspension, which controls the shock absorber forces according to the driving situation: when driving normally with low shock absorber impulses, the damping forces are automatically reduced for a noticeable improvement in ride comfort – but without any compromise in handling safety. When driving more dynamically, the maximum damping forces are set and the car is effectively stabilised. The AGILITY CONTROL steering of the new C-Class has a ratio of 14.5, and is therefore six percent more direct than the steering of the preceding model. The likewise included AGILITY CONTROL gearshift (only available when manual transmission is fitted) reflects the sporty character of the C-Class with a short travel and precise shifts.

In German literature "system integration" and in Spanish catalogs "sistema integral" is used together when discussing Agility Control, ESP and Pre-Safe together. Maybe MB thinks the US is just too unsophisticated. All Europe and even Mexico has a huge choice of engines for the W204, the Eurospec build has options unavailable in the US and Canada.
Most new MB models take a year or more to appear. Where is the B Class? Even Canada has it and the B200 turbo is just amazing.

Sportstick

The next gen platform in about a year will be federalized to meet US Standards. It is the underpinnings of the upcoming CLA sedan (mini CLS).

Acapulco Bill

I apologize alsyli, for all this AGAILY CONTROL marketing nonsense, this is not a fight, just the facts as many have different perceptions. After driving my 2010 C300 Sport for a month I had actually taken the W204 back to the MB dealer to get the shocks changed for the Luxury version, which are much different in their dampening. (Also to get a HK system installed whatever the cost, see https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...r-upgrade.html

The MB dealer also services Lambos and Ferraris, and does custom work on your Benz to your specification. The cost would be far less just to buy a Luxury model and stick a Sport grill on it, change the interior mouldings, swap out the AMG seats (not available in the US BTW), bumpers, rims, etc., than to go and pull the suspension apart, change all the springs and shocks, a different CU for the ESP as the different spring rates require different stability solutions. All because the several million mile virtual driving specified different design parameters for all the models PLUS differences in the engine weights, the 3.5L V6 diesel (ALSO N/A in the USA) puts 350 more pounds on the front axel over the smallest 1.6L petrol engine (again also N/A in the USA).

While its agreed that there is this hyped up overplay as the steering in no physical way is directly either electronically or mechanically linked to the suspension or shocks, the interacion of the yaw detector and its link to the ESP computer de facto causes the integration to occur.

Here from a Mercedes Benz Advanced Training manual:

“System Function and Networking
Fully integrated transmission control (FTC):

1. In contrast to NAG2, where the electronic FTC control unit is installed as a stand-alone control unit, the new fully electronic transmission control on NAG2 is
mounted directly on the hydraulic control and is networked over the CAN data bus with the engine control module. This makes sensor signals, calculated
data and control variables available simultaneously to all control units. Read into the transmission control unit over CAN are, among others:
• engine-relevant data, such as engine rpm, coolant temperature, accelerator pedal position, engine torque values
• ESP signals about the engine and intervention by the brake system as well as the driving speed
• cruise control signals

Orders communicated bidirectionally between the engine control module and the transmission control unit are the decrease of the engine torque values during
the shift processes and the moving of the shift point for faster catalytic converter heating-up time in the warm-up phase.

2. Directly acquired from the transmission control are:
• the position of the selector range switch
• the transmission oil temperature
• the transmission-internal revolutions
• the transmission output rpm

3. From the data, the transmission control unit calculates:
• the driver and vehicle-specific shift points
• the various required specified transmission hydraulic pressures for the respective operating condition
• the condition and control signals for the torque converter lockup clutch.
4. The transmission control unit calculates further variables from the available data. Belonging to these are:
• Air drag and rolling resistance (influence of road gradient and payload)
• The factor for the correction of parameters with variable atmospheric pressure (altitude correction) for the shift lines and pressure control
• Driver actions (intensity of accelerator movement, frequency of manual touch shifts, vehicle longitudinal and lateral acceleration).”

All this, just for the 722.9 7G transmission to go from 2nd to 3rd...

As the “vehicle longitudinal and lateral acceleration” is an input from the yaw detector and ENTIRELY dependant on the direction and change in the tires, input to the steering wheel, the rate of ascent or descent of the shocks, the action of the springs, and the G forces involved in the application of the brakes, all this data goes both to the TCU AND to the ESP.

One can therefore say, as was a point above, that in addition to the W204 being actively “integrated” by the sum of its systems, suspension and shocks included, into a single driving unit with digitally definable parameters, the question of SAFELY, as well as the question of “will Bilsteins and coilovers make my Benz better?” cannot be answered if one does not consider the integration, as a SYSTEM, of all the steering, suspension and drive train components and for each and every model, Luxury or Sport, engine and even TRIM (the Eurospec AMG package even changes the shocks and springs) by the world’s most extensive virtual computer modeling ever, to “get it right”.

So the original post by ktran350 as to whether to get new OEM shocks installed under extended warranty, or cancel with a refund to purchase Bilsteins and coilovers, not even considering the value of the warranty to cover engine, transmission, electronics, etc., is to keep the warranty and do the OEM shocks, IMO.

claudiagoul

So aftermarket shocks won't work for an upgrade

Acapulco Bill

@claudiagoul: Well they MAY work, but not at the expense of compromising ones safety and not at the expense of trading it for an extended warranty, IMO.

The Bilsteins, for instance, are the shock "par excellence" for the E46 3-series especially with the stiff M suspension such as the ZHP. The OEM shocks had no variable dampening, and the ESP was tied in exclusively to a traction control system without much input from the yaw detector. However, without the stability system, the E46 was notorious for losing control, we almost had a tragic accident rolling a 330i down a cliff because of an ESP failure, fortunately no major injuries.

And as mentioned I have a set of 4 fresh-in-the-box Bilsteins for my V12, just waiting for the necessity of taking the time and expense to install them properly.

But the W204 is a different scenario, hence my personal opinions about altering a carefully engineered system whose purpose is your safety.

FraKctured

Some comments from a thread here on the 08 C350...172K miles with minimal repairs is impressive.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...les-today.html

ktran350

Sorry I meant ESP not advance agility.

Bill thanks for the info. Sorry I wasn't clear my original question it is a two part question. How is the reliably of the w204 was and if it is rock solid should I cancel the extended warranty and either get OEM or aftermarket shocks.

alsyli

Uh, that was the only point I was trying to make. ::shrug::

To the OP, our family has had 3 C-classes since 2008. Two of them were leased; the last one was purchased only earlier this year. All 3 have been reliable, but none of them have been driven more than 40,000 mi or so. Consumer Reports has the car listed as having "Average" reliability, IIRC.

Hard to say if an extended warranty is worth it. We had it on 2 of our older Benzes. For one of them, it saved $ (according to my father) when we had to replace the transmission; one the other one, it was a waste of $. Has your car been reliable so far (the only in which we had transmission problems I think started having issues even b/f the original warranty expired)? If so, I'd probably skip the extended warranty....

Acapulco Bill

Both ktran350 and alsyli are correct, so back to point. The 2008 C350 W204, has no main engine bearing issues like some of the C300's had. Is it Luxury or Sport? And was it purchased new, CPO or remarketed? Also has the 7G transmission had its 39,000 miles service and how many litres of 736 transmission fluid was put in? And the 5/75 extended is from MB? all of this can make a difference. thanks.

ktran350

It is a 350 sport, has had the 39k transmission service and 40k service with brake fluid flush, the 5/75 is from a third party they are united car care cost was $3300, the car was purchased by an independent dealer from a lease return.

uhear

Yes, I am over 172,000 miles now in 2008 C350 and she has been fantastic to me. Like I posted only 1 out of the ordinary fix at 110,000 miles and MB paid half the repair. Otherwise - perfect with only the suggested maintenance due to wear and tear. I have never replaced shocks, only spark plugs, brakes, tires, fluids etc...

Acapulco Bill

Well if you can get the full $3,300 back, the cost of the Bilstein shock and coil-over unit, without installation which including precision alignment, could be $1,000 or so more, is $2,400. Here is the link:

http://www.allshocks.com/bilstein/ht...year='2010'