spyked

That is TRUE. But according to what I have read (and my maintenance manual), the STOP/START equipped cars MUST use the 7G Plus, but cars NOT equipped with STOP/START (like C250) can, and DO, also use 7G PLUS.

7G PLUS is the new transmission in the U.S. W204 (non AMG) for MY 2013. Some simply have STOP/START, while C250 doesn't.

That is why I can't talk about the W204 with your 7G transmission - I don't have experience with it.

zaxxon

There are two kind of 7G Plus. One is with Stop/Start and other is without Stop/Start.

So, Stop/Start feature cannot judge that the tranny is 7G or 7G Plus.

Stop/Start is additional feature in 7G Plus.

My 2012 CLS550 has 7G Plus without Stop/Start.


One more time, all BlueEfficiency models(eventually all US models) have 7G Plus in US market.

Acapulco Bill

@spyked: Great info and insight and thanks! And yes I will certainly reserve my opinion about the new Fusion until I actually see and drive one for myself. The old Mondeo, however, those comments stand vs. the MY 2010 C300. I will have to pay more attention to the newer E-Class-styled W204 interior, and will try and waste a couple of hours in a 2013 C250 while the SA is trying to undemonize the old 7G of its "Adaptive Learning". I have been in the newer W204 many times in San Diego, but neither driven nor paid much attention to the changes in materials. Bought the C300 Sport in Mexico after driving te C300 Luxury MY2010 in San Diego, and agree entirely that the Luxury seats and ride are the way to go, the Sport just too punishing on local pavements, another reason why the W204 sits around unused until the battery runs down. Tires must have a lot to do with this, the Contis that are spec in the US being much softer and quieter than the Eurospec Primacy HP and larger rims.

Now a question: Is there a 7G Plus WITHOUT Start/Stop? Or is the capability there but just not activated? No "Plus" is mentioned in the MB USA site for the C250. Just curious.

zaxxon

Even if MB rolled out 7G Plus tranny replacing 7G starting MY2012, ECO Stop/Start feature was available only on MY2012 Diesel models except AMG models. MB starts to expand the feature on MY2013 Gasoline models.
ECO Stop/Start feature requires electric auxiliary transmission oil pump on tranny to keep pressure in tranny when engine stops. So, car with 7G Plus without ECO Stop/Start doesn't have the pump module. Only cars with ECO Stop/Start feature have enable/disable button on dashboard.

7G Plus was enhanced from 7G for better fuel-economy. 7G Plus achieves 3% better F-E by enhanced lockup torque converter, 1.5% by new tranny fluid, and etc.... so, overall 7% better F-E than 7G. If ECO Stop/Start is equipped, MB estimated additional 4% better F-E.

Acapulco Bill

@zaxxon: Thanks for the great info, nowhere on the MB USA C site could I find a definitive reference to the "Plus". I have the original MB 7G Plus PDF, and understand the enhanced lockup situation, the lack of sufficient pressure in the old 7G was one cause of the lame shifting, especially between 2nd and 3rd where the release of pressure in the B plates was insufficient to activate completely the K plates. Some suggest the valve bodies are poorly engineered and are not up to the job.

Hopefully the W205 will go further and initiate dual-clutch technology. The energy required for keeping hydraulic pressure in the transmission plus the addition drain on electrical and air conditioning, radiator fans, etc. could be recuperated with a KERS. Even though the engine stops with ECO Start/Stop, this energy must be regenerated and obviously uses fuel to recover what is drained from the battery. Lets hope MB s smart enough to eliminate this frankly stupid "Adaptive Learning" malware in the W205.

RLE

First, I doubt that you have much knowledge of engine noises in Mexican cars since the comparative numbers to the US are few. You seem convinced that engines for US models are seconds that could never be palmed off on the so discerning Mexican market. You might then explain where this happens. I doubt that you know where the engine plant is.

You refer to a shimmy. Since that is not an automotive term and certainly not related to main bearing clearance in an M272 engine, I have decided that you are just making all this up, hoping that no one will notice.

Well, I did.

Acapulco Bill

Seems pointless to replace the bottom crankshaft bearing without replacing the top one. Effectively MB's solution is "shimmying" the crankshaft, not properly compensating for the tolerance equally on both halves of the bearing or crankshaft. Sarcasm is lost sometimes.

The Mexican market is hardly discerning, quite to the contrary. Most Mexican MB owners are less aware of the inner working of their vehicles than US owners, due to a "car culture consciousness" and enthusiasts are far and few between.

As for engine manufacture, all the V6 W272's are usually made in Stuttgart-Bad Cannstatt, Germany unless another facility has opened. However since European smog standards are higher then the US, I questioned if there was a difference in the pollution control systems that would implicate different assembly lines that may have resulted in out-of-tolerance crankshafts, only for engines sent destined for the US. Happens all the time in any manufacturing process, even the aerospace industry has failures and even fatal accidents due to manufacturing deficiencies. Luck of the draw.

As for differences in "build", seat design and materials differ. Although many many components are unisourced, others are locally sourced and no two vinyl manufacturers can exactly duplicate the characteristics of a material. A difference in design, for instance, is that there are no W204's here with perforated center seat bottoms or backs, which seem to be more universal in the C class I have at deaers in the US.

But it is a shame that US C250 purchasers cannot even option to get the ECO Start/Stop in their MY 2013's. MB USA only offers 12 models, in Mexico and some other countries 15 are offered. The real gripe is with MB for not providing the same vehicles to world markets (side markers not withstanding) and differences in "spec" (not quality hopefully) range widely, not meaning to offend anyone. Seasons Greetings.

spyked

I speak for all Americans.

We do NOT want the STOP/START system. It's actually a reason to buy the C250 - it does not come with it. BMW was forced to offer free reprogramming on the F30 S/S (so the default is system OFF instead of ON) They are really that bad. The only time a STOP/START system makes any sense is for hybrid buyers. And we all know how much sense the typical hybrid makes.

So, don't feel sorry for us in that regard. Keep your C250 CGI with Stop/Start in Mexico.

RLE

MLs, GLs ands GLKs are built in the US for domestic sales and export.

RLE

Stop/Start has been introduced for one reason only which is to improve fuel mileage numbers by some tiny amount. I doubt that very many owners want the feature.

BiKenG

Old thread, but I have a related question. What are the main differences between the 7G Tronic and Tronic Plus?

Specifically, what allows it to be used with Stop/Start?

As far as I know they use an external (electric?) pump to maintain oil pressure while the engine is off and I guess that needs software to control it all. Anyone got any details on this? What type of pump is it and how is it controlled. Indeed, how does it operate?

By which I mean when does the pump operate? All the time the vehicle is stationary? Or just when oil pressure needs 'topping up'? Does it operate when first turning on the car, i.e. before starting the engine?

And now the 64 million $ (and not stupid) question, could the pump etc be added to a car with just the 7G Tronic and NOT the Plus? I am specifically looking for a way to enable the use of a 7G Tronic car whose engine always stops with the car. What would otherwise occur? What actually happens within the 7G Tronic when the engine stops? Oil pressure is lost, does that then release the clutches? Would it remember what gear was engaged when the engine started again and drive the car?

Whilst I am conversant with the general principles of an auto box, I am ignorant of the ways MB has designed theirs. So would appreciate comments from those with such knowledge. Thanks.

xsever

Check out the PDF.

capt_paul