spyked

U.S. spec 2013 C250 CGI (Blue Efficiency 1.8T gasser)

When I research on Wiki, it appears I have 7G Tronic PLUS, however, in the U.S., C250 models don't have STOP/START. I was thinking the 7G Tronic Plus was only on models with STOP/START systems like in the 2013 C300.

I also notice that since my engine is a M271 (evo?), my maintenance book calls for transmission service at 7 yrs/70k miles, not 40k like most of the other engines. I notice a post on here that says Tronic PLUS has a different fluid to account for STOP/START system.

So.....the 70k mileage interval for trans service makes me think I have the new 7G Tronic Plus, but since I don't have STOP/START, I'm thinking I might just have the classic 7G Tronic.

Anyone know for sure? My sales guy isn't clear either. I'm wondering if MBUSA needs to send out some updated documentation to owners, and especially service centers.

Thanks.

Acapulco Bill

According to the MBUSA website, no C250's have the "Eco Start/Stop". The 3.5L engine models (C300 4matics and C350) ALL do, guess MB needs better MPG out of the 3.5L engine and the added cost of the 7G Plus transmission is justified.

Here in Mexico ALL the W204's come with the 7G Plus, because they are all Eurospec and NOT USA spec (the USA is a lower spec and build quality IMO), and more engine options are available C180 C200 C250 and C350 plus the C63 of course. No 4matic, hasnt snowed in most of Mexico since the last Ice Age.

RLE

Well, that explains something. When I had a 2013 C250 Sport (1300 miles) free dealer service loaner (hated it, BTW) last week for a few days, I wondered why the engine didn't shut down when stopped at a light. Played around with C & S to no avail.

A friend's new Porsche 991 Carrera S has it and he says it is absolutely seamless, restarting the engine when the brake is released. He was stuck in a long freeway jam-up and it worked everytime it was time to move.

spyked

I personally am glad the STOP/START isn't on the C250. If it's anything like the BMW F30 systems or Toyota systems, it would SUCK. Soooo not smooth or luxurious. The C250 doesn't have C & S - it has E(conomy) and S(port).

I can't believe I've stumped the MB experts! I've got to do some digging to find out what transmission I have. Apparently I've got to find something called a "data card"...

spyked

Right, no C250 has the STOP/START. That's what makes me think I have the traditional 7G Tronic. But then my maintenance schedule has my engine code 271 as every 70k miles, not every 40k miles like the traditional 7G calls for.

Funny that you think the U.S. spec W204 is lower quality than the Euro spec, since half are built in South Africa. Materials, especially for the 2012+ models, are E-class spec.

I might try to call MBUSA customer service, but I have a feeling I will get an operator, not a technician.

zaxxon

Nice try to guess.

All Merc having BlueEfficiency badge has 7G Plus. It is designed for Stop/Start feature and also designed to allow opt-out Stop/Start function. Stop/Start is additional function not major function for 7G Plus. 7G Plus is designed for fuel-efficiency, better durability and maintenance.

Why do you think MB sells lower spec and build quality cars to the largest market?


But I understand and respect your patriotism....

spyked

Well, my car does indeed have a BlueEfficiency badge on the front fender. Actually, I guess all C250 (1.8T) in the U.S. are Blue cars. So I have a 7G PLUS with no STOP/START.

That helps a lot! Thanks!

Acapulco Bill

All the W204's imported into Mexico except for the C63 are manufactured in Sindelfingen Germany. (Plant code "A" in the VIN). Glyn W. Ruck can tell you where the SA W204's are exported to, mostly to eastern customers.

As for other details, my MY 2010 C300 Sport built in August 2009 came standard with HID lighting, LED taillights, headlight washers and both driver and passenger electric lumbar support, most of these were unavailable in the U.S. that year. No ridiculous side markers either. The design of the seats and the materials are completely different from what was available in the U.S. through MY 2011. NO CUP HOLDERS to collect dirt and garbage.

So there are differences for sure. One thing in common with the U.S. spec... the crappy speakers in the non-HK audio system.

Many MB models are assembled in Mexico that include (or have included) ML, C, E, S, GL, SL, SLK, GLK and CLS, exporting some models to the US since 1998. Much of the Mercedes truck and bus line sold in the US is manufactured in Mexico.

The W205 is reportedly slated to be manufactured in the U.S. We will see if this same build gets to Mexico or not, or if they will still be from German manufacturing lines.

MDMercedesGuy

That's about a crock...

Mercedes does not produce a different grade product for each area in which they sell it. There's no difference in quality of any C class coming off the line regardless of final destination.

Mercedes builds the car equipped to be on par with the competition in the US and to maintain the price point in our market. There is no reason to sell something like the C180 in this market because it would not sell... 156HP is not enough for this class.

Most of the C classes in the US are South African. There is no discernible difference in the product for most, and where people have noticed they have noted that the SA cars seem to have better fit and finish. Search on here... it's all there.


All of those (with the exception of the passenger electric lumbar support) were available here in 2010... not sure where you are getting your information on that.
I'm dubious that the materials in the Mexican spec C class are any different than what is offered in the US. Mercedes uses MB-Tex/Artico, Leather and Dinamica worldwide. We also demand that a car have cupholders in this market...

If it makes you feel better to think that you have a better car than we have in the US, by all means do so. If you're going to post about it on here have your facts straight.

Acapulco Bill

@MDMercedesGuy: That's exactly the point, different markets require different vehicles. Of course no one would want a C180 in the USA. In the US & Mexico they sell no diesels but in England CDI represents the majority of W204 sales.

As for the seats, I travel very frequently to the US and have taken the opportunity, over the last few years, to check out the Mercedes in the US. The seats are absolutely nothing like the US models. All C Class in Mexico for MY 2010 and 2011 came with LED taillights and HID STANDARD there was no option out of them. As for the side markers there are dozens of threads asking how to get rid of them (of course it is a US law).

The point is that the builds are different. There is no C300 that I know of in Mexico that has the engine crankshaft knock problem like the US cars have. Even the stop-gap solution of installing (incorrectly) a larger shimmy on the bottom doesnt solve the out of tolerance space in the upper gap. How did this happen? Wound this qualify in your opinion a just a "fluke" or it is a difference in "quality"? You decide.

Acapulco Bill

BTW the W204 falls far short in "build quality" against my Ford. So disappointing was the new C300 that within weeks I bought a Ford and use it every day, almost to the first 50k mile "B" Service after 3 years. The W204 barely has 14k miles and I have had it slightly longer. Quieter, more comfortable, better suspension, nicer materials, better seats, a transmission that shifts instead of thinking its a refrigerator... Remember this is a 7G thread so it s embarrassing that MB keeps advertising the 7G as "the first 7 speed..." while the competition has moved on years ago to 8-speed. And the "adaptive learning", now THAT is a crock. The old 5-speed was a better trans,more robust, and more reliable.

The brakes and the Bluetooth phone are about the only two superior strengths in the Merc, although even syncing the phone contacts is a stoneage, rudimentary one-by-one task in the W204, while it is a simple "yes-no" for all of them in the Ford.

And dont even mention the quality of the stock Audio 20 sound. The cheapest Hyundai is concert-halls ahead of the Merc in the audio department (not the HK of course).

I hardly think that the W204 purchased is in any way better. Definitely different, however both the Eurospec AND the US specs stink.

MDMercedesGuy

It would qualify as looking for something that isn't there.

Are you purporting that Mercedes has a stockpile of engines that they use in the US (their largest market) versus Mexico/ROW?

MDMercedesGuy

Your Ford and your C are 2 different classes of car. Nonetheless, your opinion being what it is, why do you still own the C? The reputation of the manufacturers speaks for itself...
You keep saying your Ford is quieter, yet everything I can find on the Mondeo puts it at 70db inside at 80MPH. The C250 does 61.8 at 70 MPH, and 72db at full throttle.
Sources: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/noise/ for the Ford and http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz...st-specs1.html for the Mercedes
Hardly a crock. Mine definitely learns a noticeable amount based on my driving style. It's a bit slow to realize when I have switched from driving conservatively and when I want to play, but it is there.

Having a 2010, do you even have a 7G Tronic Plus? Everything I can find says that it came out in 2011 for the ROW...

Again, something that was fixed in the latest W204s with the newest COMAND... contacts are a 1 touch download.

Then logic would dictate that someone would ask you why you still own the W204?

Acapulco Bill

The engine comment raises an interesting question and goes back to the original 7G vs. 7G Plus situation. And for the horizons of motoring in general. Is the European engine different in it's emissions than the US spec? Certainly the EU has a much stricter pollution goal than the US, which man Japanese and Korean manufacturers are failing to meet and are discontinuing sales of certain models.

England taxes vehicles not only based on their cost but their CO2 emissions. Perhaps the US should look into this, as California, which has the strictest US emissions standard, only requires that a manufacturer meets a standard across a product line, plus individual vehicle smog inspection (which my exotic V12 in San Diego just failed to meet, LOL).

So is the emissions equipment on a particular engine (C300) different or "less clean" on the US spec than the Eurospec? If the Eurospec engines are in fact cleaner, would that by defintion automatically make them "better"?

The same criterion can be applied here to the 7G vs. 7G Plus issue. Here are just two points to consider:
1). ONE of the two transmissions provides better MPG in real-life driving and therefore lower emissions, assuming the (lethargic) shifting performance is the same.
2) ONE of the two transmissions has its service interval extended by TWICE the mileage indication.

So which one is "better"? Most would choose the transmission with the better fuel economy and the extended service requirement. So that means the "better" transmission s the 7G Plus, correct?

Which is the point, that among other items, the Eurospec ALWAYS has the 7G Plus installed in its C250 models, and the US spec only has the regular 7G as the 7G Plus is not even an option!!! So by DEFINITION most would consider the Eurospec build a BETTER build than the US spec, in the case of the C250. The 7G Plus was available only after the MY 2010 W204.

Although not part of this thread, the point about the sound levels, I will just have to go grab my B&K sound level meter and check it out for myself (always did want to get the Kappas measured and set flat with that parametric equalizer!), as the Mexico Eurospec gets the W204 the Michelin Primacy HP's, a very expensive tire, vs. Contis generally in the US spec. Is that also a better "build"? Anyway out of my six cars here only the Honda Accord is noisier than the W204 on rough surfaces at highway speeds. Have a huge roll of Dynamat I intend to apply to the C300 in an attempt to make it as quiet as the Ford, but admittedly much has to do with both the make and model of tire and the inflation.

The MY 2012 interior refresh perhaps included better materials than the MY 2008-2011 trim, my children just LAUGH at the "basketball Benz" dash and door trim. The Ford has far superior materials choices here.

The "Adaptive Learning", I would have to drive a 7G Plus for a while and see if it is less "stupid" than the regular 7G. Many other threads in this forum again and again mention the horrible 7G shifting program for the C250. The 7G only shifted adequately when it received a software update which effectively erased the "Adaptive Learning" memory, which allowed for a couple of hours of great high speed (above 120 MPH) drive back from the MB dealer to home. Alas, once back in stop-and-go traffic the "Adaptive Learning" learned that the car was a garden slug, and the 7G is back to its old, lethargic, slovenly shifting.

If the 7G Plus has a quicker and more intelligent shift logic, then this would be another case where the C250 Eurospec would be a better build than the US spec, where only the 7G is available.

Why do I still keep the W204? Because its paid for and until the total tax deduction is written off (4 years) and the extended warranty runs out (also 4 years), it is useful for long trips (better MPG than the Ford) and the C Class safety record is one of the industry's best, only 24 deaths per million vehicles (3-Series of which there are 3 vehicles in the family is double at 48 deaths per million, however partially because of the driving style of the average Bimmer owner). Reason enough MO.

spyked

I have no problem with Ford in the markets they compete in. But putting this back on track.....talk about transmission questions! I wouldn't touch a Ford PowerShift equipped car now or for the next few years until it is proven. And, the rest of their transmissions are 6 speeds. So, I'm fine with my 7 speed auto. At least MB makes improvements to the 7G as needed. The new 8 speeds by ZF that BMW and Jeep use are fine...but again....they are new. I don't like to be the beta tester for automotive technology.

The thing about Fords (and this is not a bad thing) is that they are getting so good that they are no longer cheap for Americans. When a Focus can hit $30k, we've got a problem. Many cars I'd rather have for my money at that price point. But I will give it to Ford...they are as close to VW as you can get in the U.S. And that's a very good thing. Problem is, Fords pricing is not any more attractive than VW (in the U.S.) anymore, so why not buy the VW?

spyked

The 7G Plus wasn't available in the U.S. until the U.S. got the BlueEfficiency models. That has nothing to do with lower quality specs for U.S. vs. Mexico or Europe. It just means that MB had no reason to send that stuff here until BMW debuted the F30.

I don't find that the 7 Speed shifts in any way sloppy or lethargic. Does it go for the highest gear possible? OF COURSE. But so does EVERY OTHER unit out there. But as with every other new car on the planet, all you have to do is put it in Sport mode, and it holds gears and makes throttle inputs more focused. Screw that adaptive learning stuff....never bought into that on my VR6 VWs, and don't deal with it now. Just press the gas to the point where the car goes the speed you want, or put it in Sport if you want to hold gears longer. Not rocket science.

Acapulco Bill

@spyked: well how DO you like the 7G in your C250? Have you driven a BMW 328i for comparison? Actually the transmission I thought were true shifters were the former 5-speed Mercedes transmission (many feel it was a superior shifter and certainly more robust) and the 4-speed plus OD ZF in the V12.

BTW, my daughter two days ago had a choice in San Diego between a new W204 and the new Fusion/Mondeo. She chose the car which in her opinion was a better drive, had nicer interior materials, and was more comfortable. Curious? Check out the foto... I had nothing to do with her choice, she told me afterwards (besides being 2200 miles away in Cancun).

spyked

I have an F30 328i in my garage right now. A C250 just joined it two weeks ago. The 8 speed in the 328i is a tad more....crisp? Meaning, it seems to shift faster (but it has additional speeds to get through, so that's a good thing) but you feel the shifts. The 7G Plus is much smoother. But is that the transmission or the fact that the W204 and F30 are totally different cars in terms of noise and vibration insulation? Who knows? I have no problem with either transmission. I HATE the gear selector in the F30 (it doesn't move). The W204 moves in the traditional way, as it should.

Don't get me wrong, the new Fusion is a GORGEOUS car with good dynamics for a family sedan. I simply don't want a family sedan. I'm not 40 years old yet. I want a small sedan. I also think Ford, in it's attempt to be modern, ruined the interior of the Fusion. Dark, stark, and questionable interfaces and materials.

Obviously, I am sort of traditional. I like moving shifters, and buttons where possible. One of the things I hate about the W204 and the F30 are the Comand and iDrive systems. Whats wrong with a classic touch screen NAV with redundant buttons like VW or previous gen Lexus????? That car doesn't exist I guess.

I am very happy with my C250. I got the Luxury version. Very smooth. I thank everyone for helping me determine what transmission I have.

Acapulco Bill

Precisely the "crisp"-ness in the 328i transmission (remembering the 20% more HP and 10% torque advantage over the C250) is what is missing from the 7G. And if MB engineers and designers were aiming for a "smooth" transmission, well there you have it, feels like the driveshaft is just a packet of rubber bands, and the time it takes to downshift in a passing or highway merge situation is, simply put, DANGEROUS AND LIFE THREATENING. Period.

spyked, you should give more feedback between these two cars, )especially between the F30 and the W204 Luxury) as they compete in the same market (with the Audi, although, just like Mercedes, some of the very best cars like the A5 Sportback and the C Estate are MIA, Germans think Americans will buy just any POS, no manual transmissions in W204's now, no 7G Plus in the C250 they just laugh and mock, its a cash cow so why try harder?).

As for the OLD Fusion, it was just HORRIBLE, nothing to do with the Belgian-made Porsche-engined MONDEO. Alas, for reason unknown the Ford factory at Ghent is closed, and was a reason for the new Fusion/Mondeo launch delay, plus startup problems in the new Hermosillo Mexico plant where most US Fusions will be produced. Supposedly there is Ford concept again of some kind of world car with one standard.

Which again brings back to point about the 7G vs. 7G Plus debacle. Why isnt it available in the US? Is the 7G Plus a better, more durable, faster shifting and gas-saving unit than the old 7G U.S. C250 owners are forced to swallow? Where is MB "world standard" build on this one? Here s a blatant example of difference in build and its NOT just the transmission.

Can anyone provide feedback on the performance difference between the old C350 with the 7G, and the new C350 with the 7G Plus?

MDMercedesGuy

How is the F30 in terms of NVH compared to the C? I only had a few minutes to drive a 328, with a salesguy in the car It seemed smooth, but something about the sound of it really bothered me. To me it sounded a bit more coarse and whiny like a small 4 cylinder would, whereas the EVO sounds larger than it is. I think that particular demo car had already lead a hard life judging by several factors though so it may not have been the best example.

I do notice that my 250 vibrates a bit at times through the shift lever and such - but I actually don't mind it... I like to feel what the car is doing.


Regarding the adaptive learning... I just got back in town after 10 days, drove my car last night and promptly wanted to get out and shoot it. Coming from driving a GM 4 speed hydramatic in my mom's car to mine made me long for something that based upshift points on my throttle pedal at that given point in time and not what it thinks it should do based on how I drove a week ago. I've got a 100 mile round trip to go get my partner at the airport in a bit, and I fully intend to deprogram the stupidity on this trip.

Acapulco Bill

FYI, for those like most, whom have never seen or driven a Ford Mondeo, here is a photo of the interior, the materials are far superior and better chosen than the W204, the seats much more comfortable (than the W204 Sport, about equal to the Luxury) and the fit and finish is superb, even the doors close better than my new C300.

The Mondeo (and now the new Fusion/Mondeo) has been, and continues to be "Car of the Year" more often than almost any other vehicle in the last decade, especially in Europe. When was the last time a Mercedes, let alone a C-Class, ever been reviewed as a "Car of the Year"?

zaxxon

spyked,

Your C250 has 7G Plus and his 2010 C300 has 7G, period.

Don't waste your time to argue with person who is just guessing.

I started feeling sick on patriotism about foreign product.

Acapulco Bill

@MDMercedesGuy: EXACTLY!!! I guess I would drive my Merc as a daily driver around town and sell the Mondeo if the 7G shifted like TRACK DAY as it did right after the TCU software update. When I get back to Acapulco, I have to do the yearly service (as the C300 gets driven only about 4k miles a year) and the SA promised to see about an "Adaptive Learning" LOBOTOMY to permanently disable the TCU's "Adaptive Learning" malady.

Still waiting for feedback on the 7G vs 7G Plus shifting performance.

Acapulco Bill

@zaxxon: FYI - Downloads directly from the current MB USA website. No ECO Start/Stop on any C250 model, standard on ALL 3.5L C300 4M or C350 models.

spyked

I can't speak for any W204 that isn't a 2013 U.S. spec model. No experience with them.

All U.S. spec'd C250 and C300 models for MY 2013 are BlueEfficiency models. ALL have the 7G PLUS, INCLUDING the C250 that I have. The difference is, I don't have the STOP/START that the C300 has. I am OVER THE MOON about that as I severely dislike stop/start systems. I don't feel that it is unsafe at all. Even compared to my F30. Press the gas, the car goes accordingly. In fact, the MB is geared so that passing power equals the Audi and BMW despite that fact that they have bigger engines and more power. The C250 CGI BlueEfficiency, to me, is a genius little engine. Kudos for MB for not having to design an entirely new (untested in real world) engine line. Take the existing 271, add DI and turbo, and it's fine by me.

I will say this - the BMW engine is louder and more responsive - however, pulling away from a light, the way the Benz is tuned, it pulls away just like the C300 I test drove. I think they tuned it just right in terms of sound and feel so it wouldn't alienate traditional Benz customers that are used to a V6.

As far as comparisons to my F30. The C250 is smoother and more luxurious, period. As it should be...it's softer to start with, and to further isolate myself from the road, I got the Luxury version.

The F30 is a fine car, to be sure, (wouldn't have got it if it was crap) but the quality just isn't the same. Rattles already (low profile 18s) and already in the shop for over a week waiting on a coolant expansion tank from Germany. It is a plastic ball, split in half, with a seam in the middle. The coolant broke the seam and spewed all over the engine. Luckily, it didn't run out of coolant, just threw a code because of the leak and lack of pressure in the system. It's the first year of the F30 (2012), so new model year bugs are somewhat expected. The part was on backorder, so I wasn't in bad company. Rest of the world had the issue too.

Time will tell if my new C250 will be classic MB durable. I personally like the fact that it's the last year of the W204 - all kinks should be fully worked out by now. The 271 engine is older than dirt, so hopefully it's good too. My only real concerns are the DI system (does MB know something Audi doesn't about DI and carbon?) and the new 7G PLUS transmission.

And Acapulco, say what you want, the Fusion interior is NOT even close to C class (and I mean my refreshed C class with E class materials, not your 2010 with Chrysler materials) in terms of design or materials or fitment. The Fusion interior is regularly panned as being the weak point of the car. Again, I will totally recommend a Fusion to anyone shopping in the middle class family sedan segment, and would gladly rent one from Hertz at the airport, but I'd never recommend one to someone looking for best in class family sedan interiors. Even the new Altima is a nicer place to be than inside the Fusion/Mondeo. And that should be criminal to be surpassed by Nissan interior materials! It's weird because the Focus interior is so "right"....yet the Fusion is not.