MBNUT1

Are all 2013 C300's flex fuel? If not where do they sell ones that aren't? According to the epa the non flex fuel ones get 2 mpg better mileage on the highway.

itsLoonie

No, not all of them are flex fuel. You can tell by opening they fuel door and check to see if the gas cap is part yellow and says E85. I don't know if that's 2mpg less with the actual E85 but I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference in those 2 mpg.

ralawren

Interesting - the MBUSA web site has a section on Flex Fuel Vehicles and states that for 2014 you can order a C, E or M with Flex Fuel capability. For W204 it is just the C300 and C350.

I think these are primarily special order though. I bought a 2013 C300 4matic and it is definitely not E85 capable.

boom132

Don't be knocking those Fiats! I had a pair of the Spider 124's until the pot metal A-Arms ripped out of the frame... literally!

nola000

Like I wrote earlier, the nice people at MB Customer Service informed me that the ONLY way your MB is Flex Fuel is if you have option code 929.

Im still in the process of doing a parts # comparison on my non-flex fuel C300 and another otherwise identical flex fuel C300 to see what if any parts differences there are between the two so Ill know what parts need to be swapped out to have Flex Fuel compatibility on my C300. Its an extremely tedious process and right now Ive only gotten through the engine assembly and lets just say the results are...interesting.

Im new to this forum and because nearly everybody so far has been less than courteous on this topic I dont have any inclination to share my results publicly. Although if Glyn M Ruck wants them Ill PM them to him as he was the only one that actually engaged me in constructive dialog.

nola000

DONE!!!!

Finally finished the parts comparison (2010 C300 E85 vs. 2010 C300 PZEV)

Now I need to compare the E85 vs. a non-E85 AND non-PZEV.

Anybody have the VIN for a W204 thats both non-E85(code 929) AND non-PZEV(code 917)????

Knightmare69

Wow seriously? Need I quote the response you gave me when I tried to help and asked fairly standard questions? Here's a little secret you may not know, the rest of us tend to research a car before we buy it, at the very least if its using the type of fuel we want to use. Get your head out of your *** and if stop posting if you think we're so rude. Your lack of inclination to share line sounds like that of a pouty child.

alsyli

If you've already said that you don't want to "share my results publicly," then why would you expect *anyone* to assist you w/ further questions? Rather curious, no?

nola000

Im not trying to be a d**k, I felt like I was immediately attacked for asking what I thought, and has proven to be, a rather difficult question to answer.

Ill recap...

Knightmare69 - "I've never heard or read about a Benz being able to run e85." There are lots of sources in the internet specifically referencing 2008-2011 C-Classes as being E85 compatible.

doa - "yea next time you might have an LPG engine with such attitude.
a car comes with different engines so that should be the first thing to look at before you buy it"
Attitude? Thanks for your help doa.

dolvio - "Please do not come on here and light up people trying to offer help."
This was in response to me responding to the previous two respondents. I stated that they may not know about E85 in C300s because it may not be popular in their home countries/provinces, which are listed as Hong Kong and Belgium. I dont see why this was interpreted as "lighting up" someone.

SoCal208 - "You can afford to buy a Mercedes & you are upset because your MB can not run on E85 ?. How many pennies do you save each fill up with premium gasoline ?. You want to brew the ethanol yourself to save the money ? (pennies each gallon). I believe it's illegal in the mainland of the US doing this yourself (may be legal in your neck of the wood) !. Buyer remorse ?, Life is too short, just enjoy what you can, rather counting pennies. The next time shopping for the car, do your home work, so you do not have this remorse !!!!"
After I already posted several sources that stated that my vehicle should have been E85, this guy tells me I should have done my homework and presumes that its a difference of pennies after I posted that I was thinking of home brewing which would essentially make it free or less than a dollar per gallon.

Tarek307 - "loooooooooooool...... this is a funny topic...OP you should have bought a 1984 Fiat"
Lots of help there. Why is this funny, again?



I really dont want trouble from people on this forum its been a wonderful resource. I asked what I thought was a sensible question after doing lots of "homework" and my only mistake was trusting what seemed to be reliable sources(see post #27).

Im a member of many forums and understand how certain topics can shake out a few loose nuts from the tree but the majority of people, especially Glyn M. Ruck, honestly tried to help so I wont hold back.

Here is the comparison list, but remember that its comparing an E85(code 929) to a PZEV(code 917) so some of these differences might have nothing at all to do with E85 ability and might just be emissions differences to meet PZEV requirements. Thats why I asked for a non-PZEV and non-E85 coded VIN to do a compare to the E85 to isolate the parts specific to E85 compatibility. The PZEV VIN I used is also Bi-Xenon so that might account for some of the electrical differences. Anybody have any opinions or expertise on which of these parts are specifically for and have to be used for E85?.....

ralawren

I haven't seen the EPA results for e85 versus regular gasoline. Is it really only 2 MPG less for E85? I expected it to be more like 20% which would be 4 MPG city and 6 MPG for highway?

douwe22

who cares, just run 91oct, when your tank is empty fill it up, if you are worried about mpg buy a prius!

ralawren

You do realize it is very difficult to find 91 Octane on the east coast. It is either 89 or 92+.
The reason one would care is that e85 is 20-30% less cost. However, I am trying to understand if there is a real savings using e85 since the mileage is so much less.

nola000

Like was said earlier, the reason I want the ability to run ethanol is because at some point when I find the time and inclination I plan on trying my hand at home brewing, which in my climate means I can grow(sugar cane, switchgrass, yeast culture) and produce ethanol at probably <.05 per gallon which would be the cost of natural gas(which is also fairly cheap in my state because we're a major producer and we dont need much for heating in our subtropical climate) to heat the still. If one were so inclined and had acreage(again, pretty cheap here) you could produce it for free by heating the still with split logs from your property.

KCaudell

That's easy. 92+ it is!!

Just sayin'.

K

glocati

Here's my anecdotal two cents:

My W203 is flex fuel compatible and the one time i ran E85, my mileage dropped at least 15% and my already slow 2.6 litre C240 was even more lethargic.

A wash in $$$ and less performance with E 85 = I'd only run it if I had too- as in no other available fuel.

Goettler412

Yellow gas cap = flex fuel.

Easy.

nola000

Anybody know any MB engineers?

Any automotive engineers?

Anybody know if there are any on this forum?

ljoeurban

If you want to burn E85 get a vehicle designed for E85(alcohol). Just trade your current car.







Joe

clkwork

Why not just get one of these conversion kits and call it a day? If parts fail just replace them with the E85 equivalent....

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

http://www.change2e85.com

nola000

I wish it were that simple. I spent an entire year searching every vehicle in the country through Autotrader.com with my search parameters set to email me when a vehicle meeting those parameters came up for sale. In that entire year of looking there was only one that came up for sale and its the one I have now. I wanted a white exterior, black interior, FULLY loaded, C300, E85. It meets all those except the E85 part because it was a California car it had the PZEV requirement(code 917) which is incompatible with E85(code 929). Code 917 deletes code 929.

Also, I paid $2,800 in taxes and registration on the vehicle. I would have to pay that again if I sold or traded it. For that amount of money I could almost buy all the parts from MB to convert my car to E85.

I actually looked through that website before I bought the car. It mentions that all the worries about rubber seal/gaskets, fuel tank/line corrosion, etc. are myths from the old days and that all cars made since the 80's can handle the somewhat more corrosive properties of ethanol. This is what lead me to believe my original hypothesis that the only real difference was the ECU mapping and/or that MB couldnt tell you that you could use E85 because it then might not meet PZEV emission testing in Cali with E85 in the tank.


I know that the fuel maps for E85 ECUs hold the injectors open longer to account for the lower density of ethanol but they're flexible and can revert back to gasoline mapping so you can use both efficiently. Thats why MB suggests that if youre at the fuel pump and you switch from gas to ethanol or vise versa that you should let the vehicle idle for 5 minutes. Probably to give the ECU time to sense the different fuel and adjust the fuel mapping accordingly.

In my parts comparison you can see that there are different part numbers for the PZEV vs. E85 ECU. As far as the difference between the two, I wouldnt imagine that MB would have messed with the fuel mapping and that the difference in the ECU might be the adjustments associated with the PZEV emissions standard.

So maybe my PZEV ECU fuel mapping can adjust for E85, MB just doesnt want you using it. OR, maybe its as simple as popping in an MB E85 ECU. Anybody know if that would set off codes or cause the vehicle not to function properly?

Anybody know what changes MB made or what adjustments in general auto manufacturers use to make their vehicles PZEV? I REALLY need to talk to an automotive engineer. Preferably one that worked in the computer or fuel departments.