Knightmare69

No one was trying to lite you up in anyway, our initial and I think ongoing question was why you didn't confirm this before you purchased the car. I also edited my post after I googled about the subject and provided a link for you.

nola000

I didnt blame Benz for anything. I thought I did all the homework I needed to do...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#Mercedes_Benz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexibl..._United_States

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....n=sbs&id=29398

ncsc.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/E85-Flex-Fuel-Vehicle-List-3_12.pdf‎

http://www.cleanairchoice.org/fuels/e85_vehicles.cfm

Is that not exhaustive enough? I would say thats a consensus. They all list my car as E85 compatible. Whats a boy to do with information like that but to believe ethanol is a go in a 2010 C300?

Heres where it gets interesting, and I just found this because the website was kind of confusing, if you go to mbusa.com, click on "Certified Pre-Owned", click "Models", it pulls up some drop down boxes that allow you to select year, body style, class and model. If you select "2009", "sedan", "c-class" and "C300 Sport Sedan" and click "submit", under "Engine, Drivetrain and Performance" for "Fuel requirement" it says "E85/premium gasoline for vehicles with rear-wheel drive and automatic transmission". If you do the same thing for a 2011 it says "Ethanol (E85)/Premium unleaded gasoline for vehicles equipped and labeled for dual fuel capability". If you try to select a 2010 then in the drop down box for "class" it only list "s-class" and "e-class", no "c-class". So I cant even look up my 2010 C300 on Mercedes own website.

But more importantly, and whats probably relevant to my 2010 C300, what changed between 2009 and 2011 that all 2009s were E85 and only ones labeled "E85" were capable in 2011? And if only ones labeled are E85 then which ones and why? And my request still stands. Is there not anyone here who has a 2010 C300 thats E85 capable??

Knightmare69

I suggest the easiest and probably quickest method since it seems the internet can't really give you concrete info, is to call or visit the nearest dealer and give them your VIN and they can confirm for you.

Doanster

Interesting. The transmission type had a hand in whether the car was E85 capable or not. My '09 6MT is not a Flex Fuel car. Wonder if that was because a driver could choose to rev/redline the snot of the car w/o the TCU forcing an upshift?

nola000

I guess Ill call Mercedes Customer Service in the morning to get the bad news.

Assuming its not E85, does anyone happen to know what parts would have to be swapped out to make it compatible with ethanol? Anybody know where online I can compare part numbers for a 2010 E85 C300 and a 2010 non-E85 C300?

Knightmare69

You'll need the EPC for that, I'm not sure which members have access but from what I recall, someone posted a link a while ago to it and all you had to do was register your email to access it.

nola000

Ive never been able to register with EPC-net. Its always given me errors even if I try the paid version.

Has anyone registered with EPC-net using Mozilla Firefox browser?

bop11

see http://ethanolrfa.3cdn.net/89258bdc8..._8zm6y14xr.pdf

http://chooseethanol.com/what-is-eth...5-information/

nola000

Nice score on that table bop11!

I just got off the phone with Mercedes Customer Service, who were great by the way, and the person I talked to said that if your Mercedes(any MB) was Flex Fuel it would have the code 929. Sadly, mine does not.

Now Im waiting on a tech agent to call me back to talk to me about what changes would need to be made for it to be E85 compatible. Hopefully its just an ECU mod and not a bunch of parts swapping.

Glyn M Ruck

+1^ With Benz everything is VIN driven. Only a VIN check will give you guaranteed accurate information on your specific car build.

Potential components that need changing. All Elastomer ("rubber") components in the EECS system including carbon canister, elastomer fuel cap seal, elastomers on the fuel lines, fuel pump & injectors. Could include metal lines & tank.

Certain Benz base components could well be E85 compatible. Only Benz can tell you that. This is not a conversion I've seen attempted on this board so I'm not convinced you will find the answers here.

I was on a global task force when alcohol laced fuels became popular. Many OEMs that though their fuels systems could tolerate alcohols found to their dismay they did not. Everything from Ducati tank valves to VW Pierburg carburettors gave trouble with corrosion & elastomer swell/deterioration.

Benz & VW in many respects lead the way. Benz because their metallurgy & plating of components was superior & VW because of their learnings in Brazil where the Santana (Passat) & derivatives were so popular. VW were the first to produce an all zinc carburettor with no yellow metal jets as an example.

Good luck!

Glyn M Ruck

Sorry ~ we posted at exactly the same time. Sorry you did not get the answer you wanted. At least we now know you need 929 on your build sheet.

I hope they give you someone competent on the 929 differences from stock because dependent on the answers if accurate this could get expensive. Please post what their techhead has to say.

nola000

Damn Glyn youre full of good info!

Im thinking or hoping that because of changes in manufacturing processes that MB produced all the fuel components the same in all the C-Classes to make things easy and that the change might be software related. Maybe fuel mapping or the like. My vehicle is a PZEV code vehicle so if Im really lucky it is E85 compatible but MB tells you its not so the vehicle can meet PZEV requirements at smog testing.

Hey Glyn. Since you seem to be involved in the industry which scenario do you think is probably more likely? I have a feeling that when I talk to the tech guy at MB he isnt going to give me a straight or honest answer.

nola000

We posted at the same time again.


Hey Glyn. Since you seem to be involved in the industry which scenario do you think is probably more likely? I have a feeling that when I talk to the tech guy at MB he isnt going to give me a straight or honest answer.

Glyn M Ruck

I have a feeling that quite a few components in the fuel system are going to require replacement. If economies of scale were enough to offset E85 compatible component on-cost then they would just build all cars to be Flex Fuel. Switching from one MAP to another in the ECU at build costs nothing.

This thing will have been cost driven in the US where margins are wafer thin for Benz compared with ROW. Outside Saudi Arabia where prices are slightly lower than the US but you can even buy cars without air bags. Even from Porsche. Prices are much higher.

In most global markets prices are approx double the US price or more for a particular Benz. Some of this is tax, some is higher spec, & some is plain gouging & you are paying for the brand.

Trimming to maintain low sticker price does take place on US models however. e.g. a South African car will have a brake wear sensor on every wheel. A US destined car will only have one on the LH front wheel & so it goes.

nola000

So what youre saying is Adam Smith was right, competition and open markets does drive down prices, capitalism does work and its alive and well in the US.

Sorry world.

Anyway, I just got access to EPC-net so my part # comparison adventure begins.

jsordelet

For what it is worth my 2009 C300 4Matic is E85 compatible. The gas cap has a yellow ring and the sticker on the gas door states that either Premium unleaded or E85 can be used.

nola000

Eek.
I cant compare the parts lists without a VIN.

Anybody have VIN # for a 2010 E85 C300 Automatic?

C230Kompressed

I found one on autotrader for you..

Its a 2010 C300 and the description lists "dual fuel E85"

VIN# WDDGF5EB5AR099101

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...gIndex=9&Log=0

Heres the whole list with keyword e85: 27 cars found in the united states that is 2010 c300 e85:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...rch=true&Log=0

nola000

Yea. Im an idiot. I dont why I didnt think about that. I forgot you can get VIN #s from Autotrader.

SoCal208

All right, "I am an idiot" to start with. You can afford to buy a Mercedes & you are upset because your MB can not run on E85 ?. How many pennies do you save each fill up with premium gasoline ?. You want to brew the ethanol yourself to save the money ? (pennies each gallon). I believe it's illegal in the mainland of the US doing this yourself (may be legal in your neck of the wood) !. Buyer remorse ?, Life is too short, just enjoy what you can, rather counting pennies. The next time shopping for the car, do your home work, so you do not have this remorse !!!!. Like Glynn said, E85 ONLY by order, not every C300 can run on E85.

nola000

Lets see 92 miles x 5 days + 20 miles x 2 days x 4 weeks x 12 months = 24,000 miles per year / 25 mpg = 960 gallons of gas x $3.60 per gallon = $3,456 per year in gas. Thats a lot of so called "pennies".

Glyn M Ruck

It should be noted that E85 is a lower density partially oxidised fuel. Fuel consumption will be quite a bit higher which will tend to offset the lower price vs. Premium gasoline.

Doanster

Retro-fitting for E85 now just seems like a losing proposition, both from a $$ as well as potential-to-really-screw-something-up perspective. Trying to compare the BOM (bill-of-materials) from two cars in order to garner part number differences is just a recipe for disaster IMO. If it was a simple ten step process, there'd be a DIY posted in the Tips'n'Tricks thread.

Sounds like your #1 goal is to reduce the $$ spent on fuel. Your $3500/yr cost above has to be offset by how much it'll cost you to produce your own E85 along with having to burn more of it as has been pointed out already.

Can you sell/trade the car for another C that is E85 capable? The hit you take will be probably be a wash compared to retrofitting. How about a diesel (TDi)? Huge mpg comparatively while having tons of torque.

Tarek307

loooooooooooool...... this is a funny topic...OP you should have bought a 1984 Fiat

ralawren

Fuel mileage will be at leadt 20% less than regular gasoline. There was a great article on Motorweek about this. Few years ago and E85 did not save any money. The best mileage was from a diesel. They were using Suburbans.