Wheel Alignment - Good Values?
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Newbie
Joined: Feb 2016
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2011 C250 CDI Coupe
Wheel Alignment - Good Values?
Hi all, excuse the noob post - I'm not much of an enthusiast lol, so bear with me...
I had 4 Michelin PS3s put on my 2011 Mercedes C250CDI Coupe last Thursday (4 days ago).
I noticed on my invoice that only a front alignment had been done. I called the tyre place to clarify... they said that they would tick 'front alignment' on the service form, and if the service guys find rears can be aligned, they would do that for no extra charge.
Anyhow, I went back in today to confirm, and they summoned the service guy... he said no, the rears hadn't been aligned.
So they took the car and did a full front and rear alignment... result is below.
http://imgur.com/cGWV8CZ
Firstly... the guy said I must have hit something, given the front right was out from the first alignment done 4 days ago... but that's just untrue, I didn't have any noteworthy bumps. Which makes me wonder if they did the front alignment in the first place, did it poorly or Mercs are just super fragile?
Secondly... the final values. Are they in the ballpark? And why are the left and right values different?
I had 4 Michelin PS3s put on my 2011 Mercedes C250CDI Coupe last Thursday (4 days ago).
I noticed on my invoice that only a front alignment had been done. I called the tyre place to clarify... they said that they would tick 'front alignment' on the service form, and if the service guys find rears can be aligned, they would do that for no extra charge.
Anyhow, I went back in today to confirm, and they summoned the service guy... he said no, the rears hadn't been aligned.
So they took the car and did a full front and rear alignment... result is below.
http://imgur.com/cGWV8CZ
Firstly... the guy said I must have hit something, given the front right was out from the first alignment done 4 days ago... but that's just untrue, I didn't have any noteworthy bumps. Which makes me wonder if they did the front alignment in the first place, did it poorly or Mercs are just super fragile?
Secondly... the final values. Are they in the ballpark? And why are the left and right values different?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,282
Likes: 57
2013 C250 Sport
There are plenty of shops that won't do alignments on Mercedes. I'm not really sure why but there must be a reason for that. One mechanic I trust told me they are just a "PITA" and requires equipment he does not have. He said places will do them that shouldn't and then customers aren't happy with the results.
I wouldn't trust most high volume tire shops with an alignment. More often than not I've seen botched jobs and steering wheels off of center. I'd stick with a specialty Euro shop or the dealer. However, dealers can get very expensive.
When it comes to balancing also make sure it's a road force balance - because it's a Mercedes.
I wouldn't trust most high volume tire shops with an alignment. More often than not I've seen botched jobs and steering wheels off of center. I'd stick with a specialty Euro shop or the dealer. However, dealers can get very expensive.
When it comes to balancing also make sure it's a road force balance - because it's a Mercedes.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,714
Likes: 56
From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
Hi all, excuse the noob post - I'm not much of an enthusiast lol, so bear with me...
I had 4 Michelin PS3s put on my 2011 Mercedes C250CDI Coupe last Thursday (4 days ago).
I noticed on my invoice that only a front alignment had been done. I called the tyre place to clarify... they said that they would tick 'front alignment' on the service form, and if the service guys find rears can be aligned, they would do that for no extra charge.
Anyhow, I went back in today to confirm, and they summoned the service guy... he said no, the rears hadn't been aligned.
So they took the car and did a full front and rear alignment... result is below.
http://imgur.com/cGWV8CZ
Firstly... the guy said I must have hit something, given the front right was out from the first alignment done 4 days ago... but that's just untrue, I didn't have any noteworthy bumps. Which makes me wonder if they did the front alignment in the first place, did it poorly or Mercs are just super fragile?
Secondly... the final values. Are they in the ballpark? And why are the left and right values different?
I had 4 Michelin PS3s put on my 2011 Mercedes C250CDI Coupe last Thursday (4 days ago).
I noticed on my invoice that only a front alignment had been done. I called the tyre place to clarify... they said that they would tick 'front alignment' on the service form, and if the service guys find rears can be aligned, they would do that for no extra charge.
Anyhow, I went back in today to confirm, and they summoned the service guy... he said no, the rears hadn't been aligned.
So they took the car and did a full front and rear alignment... result is below.
http://imgur.com/cGWV8CZ
Firstly... the guy said I must have hit something, given the front right was out from the first alignment done 4 days ago... but that's just untrue, I didn't have any noteworthy bumps. Which makes me wonder if they did the front alignment in the first place, did it poorly or Mercs are just super fragile?
Secondly... the final values. Are they in the ballpark? And why are the left and right values different?
Some adjustment values attached.
SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 179
Mercedes-Benz CLK 550
YES THAT’S RIGHT – WHILE THE FLUTED BOLTS ARE ONLY AVAILABLE FOR THE FRONT AND ARE INACCURATE ONE ONLY POSITION BOLTS
WE SAW THE NEED THEREFORE TO MANUFACTURE AND REINSTATE FROM THE EARLY 90’S PRECISELY ADJUSTABLE (SINGLE WRENCH, ON CAR) FRONT CAMBER AND CASTER AND REAR CAMBER (WITH EXTRA TOE) KITS TO SUIT VIRTUALLY EVERY MODEL THROUGH TO 2016! INCLUDING ALSO AMG AND BLACK SERIES.
The K-MAC unique patented design provides up to 4 times the adjustment of these one position fluted bolts. Also with the design breakthrough of eliminating the time consuming need to remove bushings each time an alignment setting needs to be changed.
CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle, improving traction/safety with more even tire wear along with ability to reduce understeer or oversteer
CASTER – Resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control, along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.
Fixing it right the 1st time - no more ongoing trips to dealers or alignment shops or constantly changing tire brands. A result of worn bushes, altering vehicle height, fitting wide profile tires/wheels, load carrying or because of curb knock damage.
ADDED BONUS IS THESE 4 FRONT AND REAR K-MAC ADJUSTABLE BUSHINGS also replace the highest wearing suspension bushings at the same time - with twice the load bearing area of OEM. Yet still 2 axis/self aligning without the use of air voids allowing also improved brake and steering response.
FOR THE REAR SIMILAR KITS – Providing Camber also for the 1st time for more even tire wear/traction. Again these 2 inner lower arm bushings are the highest wearing. Bush extraction tool included allowing bushes to be replaced on car. Rear kit also includes importantly extra Toe adjustment bushes to compensate for the new Camber facility.
NOTE – you can purchase adjustable upper Camber arms for the rear, but difficult to fit, access and to reduce inner edge tire wear unlike K-MAC lower arm bushings – these arms need to adjust top of tire outwards which reduces all important clearance to outer fender.
Front W204 Camber and Caster adjustable bushes $480 #502616K
Rear W204 Camber (and extra Toe)adjustable bushes $480 #502226K
Delivery price for MB World members USA/Canada is $30 one kit or $40 front and rear.
Payment can be made by PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard.
See link for latest 2016 catalog http://K-mac.com.mercedes/
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 520
Likes: 45
From: Regina SK
2008 C-230 4Matic Sport
YES THAT’S RIGHT – WHILE THE FLUTED BOLTS ARE ONLY AVAILABLE FOR THE FRONT AND ARE INACCURATE ONE ONLY POSITION BOLTS
WE SAW THE NEED THEREFORE TO MANUFACTURE AND REINSTATE FROM THE EARLY 90’S PRECISELY ADJUSTABLE (SINGLE WRENCH, ON CAR) FRONT CAMBER AND CASTER AND REAR CAMBER (WITH EXTRA TOE) KITS TO SUIT VIRTUALLY EVERY MODEL THROUGH TO 2016! INCLUDING ALSO AMG AND BLACK SERIES.
The K-MAC unique patented design provides up to 4 times the adjustment of these one position fluted bolts. Also with the design breakthrough of eliminating the time consuming need to remove bushings each time an alignment setting needs to be changed.
CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle, improving traction/safety with more even tire wear along with ability to reduce understeer or oversteer
CASTER – Resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control, along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.
Fixing it right the 1st time - no more ongoing trips to dealers or alignment shops or constantly changing tire brands. A result of worn bushes, altering vehicle height, fitting wide profile tires/wheels, load carrying or because of curb knock damage.
ADDED BONUS IS THESE 4 FRONT AND REAR K-MAC ADJUSTABLE BUSHINGS also replace the highest wearing suspension bushings at the same time - with twice the load bearing area of OEM. Yet still 2 axis/self aligning without the use of air voids allowing also improved brake and steering response.
FOR THE REAR SIMILAR KITS – Providing Camber also for the 1st time for more even tire wear/traction. Again these 2 inner lower arm bushings are the highest wearing. Bush extraction tool included allowing bushes to be replaced on car. Rear kit also includes importantly extra Toe adjustment bushes to compensate for the new Camber facility.
NOTE – you can purchase adjustable upper Camber arms for the rear, but difficult to fit, access and to reduce inner edge tire wear unlike K-MAC lower arm bushings – these arms need to adjust top of tire outwards which reduces all important clearance to outer fender.
Front W204 Camber and Caster adjustable bushes $480 #502616K
Rear W204 Camber (and extra Toe)adjustable bushes $480 #502226K
Delivery price for MB World members USA/Canada is $30 one kit or $40 front and rear.
Payment can be made by PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard.
See link for latest 2016 catalog http://K-mac.com.mercedes/
WE SAW THE NEED THEREFORE TO MANUFACTURE AND REINSTATE FROM THE EARLY 90’S PRECISELY ADJUSTABLE (SINGLE WRENCH, ON CAR) FRONT CAMBER AND CASTER AND REAR CAMBER (WITH EXTRA TOE) KITS TO SUIT VIRTUALLY EVERY MODEL THROUGH TO 2016! INCLUDING ALSO AMG AND BLACK SERIES.
The K-MAC unique patented design provides up to 4 times the adjustment of these one position fluted bolts. Also with the design breakthrough of eliminating the time consuming need to remove bushings each time an alignment setting needs to be changed.
CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle, improving traction/safety with more even tire wear along with ability to reduce understeer or oversteer
CASTER – Resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control, along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.
Fixing it right the 1st time - no more ongoing trips to dealers or alignment shops or constantly changing tire brands. A result of worn bushes, altering vehicle height, fitting wide profile tires/wheels, load carrying or because of curb knock damage.
ADDED BONUS IS THESE 4 FRONT AND REAR K-MAC ADJUSTABLE BUSHINGS also replace the highest wearing suspension bushings at the same time - with twice the load bearing area of OEM. Yet still 2 axis/self aligning without the use of air voids allowing also improved brake and steering response.
FOR THE REAR SIMILAR KITS – Providing Camber also for the 1st time for more even tire wear/traction. Again these 2 inner lower arm bushings are the highest wearing. Bush extraction tool included allowing bushes to be replaced on car. Rear kit also includes importantly extra Toe adjustment bushes to compensate for the new Camber facility.
NOTE – you can purchase adjustable upper Camber arms for the rear, but difficult to fit, access and to reduce inner edge tire wear unlike K-MAC lower arm bushings – these arms need to adjust top of tire outwards which reduces all important clearance to outer fender.
Front W204 Camber and Caster adjustable bushes $480 #502616K
Rear W204 Camber (and extra Toe)adjustable bushes $480 #502226K
Delivery price for MB World members USA/Canada is $30 one kit or $40 front and rear.
Payment can be made by PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard.
See link for latest 2016 catalog http://K-mac.com.mercedes/
SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 179
Mercedes-Benz CLK 550
So yes adjusting, improving tire contact / wear area / traction – is all about either “straightening” or “tilting” wheel angle (changing Camber – positive or negative).
Presume like most owners you want to reduce costly, premature inner edge tire wear.
If tire / wheels are severely Cambered – straightening wheels to zero Camber position would obviously alter / raise height.
Currently available for Camber (and Caster) adjustment (for Mercedes models) is the inaccurate – “one only position” fluted bolts for the main bush mounts (front of vehicle only) providing .3 of 1 degree Camber change, which equates to a minimal 1/8 inch (3mm) positive or negative.
At K-MAC we have therefore designed front and rear adjuster kits to provide absolute maximum adjustment range inside the confines of these bush mounts. This is up to 4 times that of these one position fluted bolts (1/2”), along with providing for the 1st time “precise” single wrench accurate adjustment and also replacing these “4” main highest wearing front and rear suspension bushings!
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Super Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 709
Likes: 48
From: NFLD
2017 C43 AMG, 2010 C350 4Matic, 9 Motorcycles
You say caster adjustment is also inaccurate.. Just wondering if your kits are supposed to change that as well, and if so how in the F*&) did you manage that?? Hahaha.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 179
Mercedes-Benz CLK 550
We therefore designed the K-MAC adjusters to provide precise, accurate adjustment range of both Caster and Camber.
Single wrench adjustment “on car” – accurately “under load” direct on alignment rack with up to 4 times the adjustment range.
SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 179
Mercedes-Benz CLK 550
The unique K-MAC patented design allows bushes to then be pressed in, in any position!
Then on the alignment rack, the design allows the easily accessible mount bolt to be rotated by means of a single wrench. This allowing the bush to also rotate internally to the precise alignment setting required.
The nut is then tightened securing each bush in its particular setting.
Before this K-MAC design breakthrough to change a setting meant the labour/time consuming removal and replacement of each bush to another position!
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 709
Likes: 48
From: NFLD
2017 C43 AMG, 2010 C350 4Matic, 9 Motorcycles
Do you?
And K-Mac, well done.
Just didn't see how you could change castor with the thrust rod being a straight bar in the from the frame to the steering knuckle, maybe I should've been more clear, I have a 4Matic, is it still possible? Or am I missing something...
And K-Mac, well done.
Just didn't see how you could change castor with the thrust rod being a straight bar in the from the frame to the steering knuckle, maybe I should've been more clear, I have a 4Matic, is it still possible? Or am I missing something...
Newbie
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
From: Ottawa, Canada
93 600SL, 09 C350
Just an FYI for folks in the Toronto area, Pat at "Al Tech " on Olivewood does an excellent job for $60 cash. There is nothing magical about the standard suspension on these. You can stand there and watch him work and he will talk about what he is doing and why. Mercedes does have a special tool for adjusting the back end and if an INDY has not invested in that they may not be able to adjust it properly.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 604
Likes: 29
From: SA
2008 C350-Sport-AMG-Active Agility Pack(Not reliable) +Izuzu KB6 3L(It seems Reliable)+Mazda
My experience with my W204 wheel alignment episodes.
Never had problems with rear tyres, now at 125000KM.
However, I never ever had a front set of tyres made it to the end.
As of new the fronts wear out on the insides while outsides were ok, they replaced bushes on 1st service.
After that it was not that severe but I still had to chuck front tyres away(Outsides wear).
Last year I took it to a Mercedes qualified well known clean good tyre practice, in fact I bought all the tyres from them over the years..... to do the wheel alignment.
The guy told me all Mercedes he saw did that front tyre wear thing.
So he adjusted it as to how they think it should be to last, and advise me to pump them at 2.4 rather.
I did that and so far it looks promising, the rears weared out now and needs replacing soon, the fronts still looks ok, maybe this effects handling, but Im not a racer either.
So to me it seems the Mercedes specs just costs me a load of extra money on tyres.
Never had problems with rear tyres, now at 125000KM.
However, I never ever had a front set of tyres made it to the end.
As of new the fronts wear out on the insides while outsides were ok, they replaced bushes on 1st service.
After that it was not that severe but I still had to chuck front tyres away(Outsides wear).
Last year I took it to a Mercedes qualified well known clean good tyre practice, in fact I bought all the tyres from them over the years..... to do the wheel alignment.
The guy told me all Mercedes he saw did that front tyre wear thing.
So he adjusted it as to how they think it should be to last, and advise me to pump them at 2.4 rather.
I did that and so far it looks promising, the rears weared out now and needs replacing soon, the fronts still looks ok, maybe this effects handling, but Im not a racer either.
So to me it seems the Mercedes specs just costs me a load of extra money on tyres.
Last edited by Moto_Guzzi; Oct 4, 2016 at 01:35 AM.
SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,702
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Mercedes-Benz CLK 550
Yes– K-MAC Camber and Caster kits are manufactured for all models including 4matic.
As previously explained these bushes simply replace the 4 front highest wearing bushings at the same time.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
2014 MB C250
Rear toe and camber C250 2015 with 18 inch AMG wheels
My C250 was chewing up the inner 3/4 inch circumference of the expensive rear tires like 8000 miles new Conti Contact tires were toast and that on easy street driving so I installed the SPC camber kit and set it by eye ball to slight positive camber. Can actually see camber change with car on level surface sitting on ground. I had adjusted toe out a tiny amount prior to installing SPC kit and did not help wear issue . At 0 degree eye ball camber the car was ponderous at highway speeds and at roughly 1 degree positive camber was more suitable stable but not as good stability at the factory negative camber setting . Have 45K now on new Michelin Pilot Sport 3S rear tires with very even wear across tread - maybe a little more on center thanks to 42psi cold pressure . It's not a scientific approach but it worked. Got 49K on Michelin Pilot Sport AS3 front tires and car tracks straight. God only knows what I did to the thrust angle and what the actual rear toe angle is but solved the rear tire wear issue and did not hurt front tire wear as far as I can tell . I have not and am not paying for any wheel alignments especially since I deviated so far away from spec on rear . Wear on the tie rod ends probably outweighs small variations to standard toe setting on the front on the C250 so I lube the tie rod end ***** annually with Plews grease needle which I have used for 490K miles on my two Ford F150 trucks on all ball joints and still get 75K on front tires on original tie rods . As bad as the wear was on the rear C250 tires I didn't have much to lose and it worked so I'm leaving well enough alone now at 100K miles on the car .
