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Apparently Carfax got themselves in hot water from buying customer data from a automotive software provider. It’s possible that a car that’s had minor body repair will have a positive accident report while a more severely damaged car doesn’t. Can’t find anything on the internet but the word around new car dealers was that the software
provider was ordered to stop sharing customer data. I believe It happened as a result maintenance records being stored by dealers and made available to carfax.
BTW, did you notice Mercedes announced a big drop in profit and cut it's dividend recently? Unfortunately for owners this greatly reduces the likelihood they'll make good on rusting subframes, defective Mars Red paint, etc. Just read the other day that 2015 C300's have a widespread problem with cracked pistons ... depressingly similar conversation with PO'd owners asking how they could stick their heads in the sand and just ignore a defect so costly that it makes the car almost worthless (i.e 10k to repair a 2015 C engine).
Time will show this is all collateral damage from the deranged rush to autonomous and BEV vehicles forced by European governments. In Germany's case causing severe financial strain on their strongest industry.
Last edited by Tom in Austin; 02-18-2020 at 07:50 AM.
The car business in general is suffering. Customers are buying cars at dealer cost and the only way dealers can make a profit is thru parts and service. I spoke to the Eastern regional sales manager for Lexus a few months ago and he said none of his dealers were operating in the black. Mercedes still makes a good vehicle but I think some of the suppliers of items such as the subframes aren’t treating them with any rust prevention coatings. I suspect that The subframes are probably made out of of high strength low alloy steel that with a high content of carbon will rust quite quickly if something gets underneath the original protective coating. We also have ourselves to blame because who really gets underneath the car with a pressure washer to clean all the crap off whenever we wash our cars. We are more interested in making this tire shine and seeing how quickly the rain rolls off of the paint job. I’m probably older than most, spent 30 years selling MBs and have seen just about everything that could ever happen in the car business. None of us like to get “wallet-flushed” but that’s exactly what’s happening when we take our 10 year car in and expect the manufacture to fix everything that could go wrong with it.
If NHTSA receives multiple complaints on a particular model, it will open an investigation. If NHTSA finds that a safety defect exists with a particular model, it will issue a repair campaign or a recall. You and other owners may have your car repaired for free, if NHTSA finds that the problem is a manufacturer defect.
If NHTSA receives multiple complaints on a particular model, it will open an investigation. If NHTSA finds that a safety defect exists with a particular model, it will issue a repair campaign or a recall. You and other owners may have your car repaired for free, if NHTSA finds that the problem is a manufacturer defect.
If NHTSA receives multiple complaints on a particular model, it will open an investigation. If NHTSA finds that a safety defect exists with a particular model, it will issue a repair campaign or a recall. You and other owners may have your car repaired for free, if NHTSA finds that the problem is a manufacturer defect.
W204 2007 - w204 rear bottom thrust corroded and cracks
Hi. Fe weeks ago start hear noice on rear part, sounds like metal hit metal. Yesterday went to local garage and they found what rear bottom trusted arm corroded and broke. They remove it and say only option to change subframe completely, but it’s will be nearly price of car. But mechanic say I can drive without it and its not dangerous. Anyone know what that part for? And its safe to drive? Thanks.
W204 C200, BMW E30 M3, 1980Gt Mini, Toyota Corona, KTM 200 EXC.
Advise to continue driving with the corrosion damage you have and the suspension arm not installed does not sound like good advise from a professional garage.
May be you could shop around for used subframe and different garage to install it.
2009 c300. Spent first 75k miles in Chicago and then next 50k in Indy (garaged, under body car washes, optionally driven in winter).
Control arm’s subframe mount broken off. Car’s balance was all over the road when braking to avoid a large bump.
Was quoted 1900 for labor by independent shop and I provide subframe and links and bushings.
That failure was not expected. Dealer had indicated that the subframe could have corrosion, but there is a difference between corrosion and a bad design. Seems they realized quickly as 2012s are sorted.
Have had our car since new, always garaged and serviced at MB dealer. The bracket they broke had rusted from the inside of the subframe- the black paint was still on the outside of the bracket.
To add more detail for those who come in and see this thread.
$5200 quote from Dealer for replacement (did not say if this included replacing the links/bushings or not)
$171 four wheel alignment
Here is my current breakdown:
$1900 - Labor
$330 for 2012 Subframe - Ebay
$380 for Moog rear links Total of 10 links including sway bar end links. Also adjustable camber bushings. Rockauto pricing.
$150 four wheel alignment
$2760 for a fresh rear end - Local shop I trust willing to install customer sourced parts with no warranty given.
I would normally DIY all of my repairs except for pressing bushings and alignments. I literally just replaced the trans in my Subaru about a week prior, so I have the tools and capabilities. But need to make sure it is done quickly and without hiccups, so I am just going with my favorite local shop.
My daughter’s car has a cracked subframe. The person at the local shop we took it too said my daughter is lucky to be alive as the rear wheel was about to fall off. We had the car towed to Mercedes Benz of FFLD. They looked at it and quoted me a $3500 bill. They told me I could try to get a goodwill repair so I called Mercedes Benz USA. My repair guy and 4 other mechanics told me they haven’t seen a frame as bad as that ever!! I spoke to a man named Ralph from executive services. He was sympathetic and then dropped the bomb.... no help on the repair. He then told me he’s never heard of this happening and there’s no issues reported. What???? After reading this thread it sounds like a major problem. Mercedes is a horrible company and we will NEVER EVER buy one again!! It’s sad that they refused to help a young girl who is in college debt and just starting her first job. They did offer to give a $1000 rebate if she bought a new car. Bull****!!! This company sucks and everyone needs to know it.
Hello,
my name is Mac Morgan and I too recently had the subframe crack at a strut mount on our 2010 C300w4 (4matic). I’ve worked selling MBs since 1971 in 2 different factory stores- Wilmington DE and Devon PA. We bought the car new in February 2010, had every maintenance done at MB dealerships. A couple of weeks prior to the discovery of the crack the car had been into MB of Wilmington for a normal service. The service writer called and told me the tech suggested all new springs, transfer case reseal, a transmission service, idler pulley replacement and oil service; probably about $6-7000.00. There was no mention of a crack in the right rear subframe. The car is garaged every night, garaged at my wife’s work and well cared for, BUT- in the last near and a half we’ve spent $6000.00 repairing a sunroof drain leak and $3900.00 on a rear subframe replacement. The MB rep who inspected the car wouldn’t/couldn’t approve any repair due to the age and mileage- 10 years and 92k. What’s interesting about the strut mount that had rusted is that it failed because of corrosion that came from the inside of the subframe, not the outside where I found the crack.
I called MB customer care and got the same offer as your daughter and went up the ladder with the same results. Over the years I’ve seem MB get more serious about “Good Will” help. I registered a complaint with the NHTSA (National Hiway Traffic Safety Admin.) I’ve yet to hear back from anyone but if enough people complain, we may get somewhere. Our problem happened around the end of February 2020, just before the big shutdown. I’d be interested to hear what you’ve done so far.
John Mac Morgan
Hockessin, DE abarth1202@gmail.com
Originally Posted by Kaliguitar
My daughter’s car has a cracked subframe. The person at the local shop we took it too said my daughter is lucky to be alive as the rear wheel was about to fall off. We had the car towed to Mercedes Benz of FFLD. They looked at it and quoted me a $3500 bill. They told me I could try to get a goodwill repair so I called Mercedes Benz USA. My repair guy and 4 other mechanics told me they haven’t seen a frame as bad as that ever!! I spoke to a man named Ralph from executive services. He was sympathetic and then dropped the bomb.... no help on the repair. He then told me he’s never heard of this happening and there’s no issues reported. What???? After reading this thread it sounds like a major problem. Mercedes is a horrible company and we will NEVER EVER buy one again!! It’s sad that they refused to help a young girl who is in college debt and just starting her first job. They did offer to give a $1000 rebate if she bought a new car. Bull****!!! This company sucks and everyone needs to know it.
Last edited by Mac Morgan; 06-30-2020 at 05:14 PM.
Reason: Addition
I had my 2010 C300 4Matic Sport towed to the dealership on Thursday when my local tire shop declared it unsafe to drive because the subframe had rusted through so badly that the rear control arms on both sides had completely detached. I knew that something was wrong when, during an evening drive, top dead center of my steering wheel migrated from the 12:00 position to the 10:30 position--to keep the car driving straight--within the span of three minutes. I thought, 'Hmm. That's not right.'
I called MBUSA, and they assigned me an Executive Referral Manager who promised to call me this past Friday. (No luck there.)
I bought my car CPO from my local dealership, and only my local dealership has ever performed any services except for tires and brakes. I have had all services done on time, and I get my car completely detailed twice every year. My car looks factory new.
After what I've read in this forum, I'm not expecting MBUSA to offer anything except $1000 credit toward a new/CPO car. That is a slap in the face. A random Joe walking in off the street could probably negotiate a CPO E-class down about $1000.
It's put me off the brand completely. If someone gives me a Mercedes as a gift, I will trade it for a Honda Accord.
Reading your reply is like reading my own history. Same model, same year, same problem. Only my local MB dealership has done any work on my car--except for tires and brakes.
I asked the service manager how it is possible that a structural failure of the subframe was never caught during all those A- and B-services and Pennsylvania safety inspections for each of which I paid hundreds of dollars.
His defense: 'You should have heard a noise. That's on you.'
Hey guys. I'm a new member here and NOT A TROLL!
I own a 2012 C300. My mother bought it brand new and I bought it from her in 2016 with 21k miles when ME/BE gave her a horrible rate as a trade-in. The car now has ~45k miles. Car has seen mostly local driving and been garage kept. My local mom and pop shop is my parents' shop. My father and I looked at the issue together and it matches most of you in this thread. Rusted/Corroded rear crossmember subframe. When I hit the brakes, the car pulls to the left. The rot is on the left rear subframe, so either the torque arm or trailing arm shift when braking, causing the caliper to move up. We tested by one person driving while the other stares at the wheel. You can see the caliper rise up, and hear a clunk sound.
My father, in all of his years, has never seen rot like this on a car that's got such low mileage, only 8 years old, and he also knows it's been garage kept by both my mother and by me.
I'm going to call Mercedes HQ, and have a feeling they're not going to care. =/
I was under the impression that 2012 cars werent having the same problem that 2008-2011 cars were.
mine is getting repaired right now in Ephrata, pa. The place is called Hubers, saw it recommended in this or another thread on here. They use good subframes out of later models. The Repair was qouted around $1700-1800, but I also needed a rear diff, the seals went bad a while ago, for $500-600 more
Hey guys. I'm a new member here and NOT A TROLL!
I own a 2012 C300. My mother bought it brand new and I bought it from her in 2016 with 21k miles when ME/BE gave her a horrible rate as a trade-in. The car now has ~45k miles. Car has seen mostly local driving and been garage kept. My local mom and pop shop is my parents' shop. My father and I looked at the issue together and it matches most of you in this thread. Rusted/Corroded rear crossmember subframe. When I hit the brakes, the car pulls to the left. The rot is on the left rear subframe, so either the torque arm or trailing arm shift when braking, causing the caliper to move up. We tested by one person driving while the other stares at the wheel. You can see the caliper rise up, and hear a clunk sound.
My father, in all of his years, has never seen rot like this on a car that's got such low mileage, only 8 years old, and he also knows it's been garage kept by both my mother and by me.
I'm going to call Mercedes HQ, and have a feeling they're not going to care. =/
I had a 2010 C300 4Matic Sport (W204), and the rear subframe rusted so badly on it that the lower control arms broke free. I called MBUSA since I bought mine at the dealership and always had it serviced at the very same dealership. MBUSA offered me 20% of the repair cost or $2500 trade-in value toward a new C-class or better. Mine had 158,000 miles on it, but I took such good care of it. I opted not to put more money into a ten-year-old car with such high mileage, so I sold it for $1500 and bought a Lincoln. (This all happened just two weeks ago.)
I appreciate that MBUSA's offer was reasonable since my car had such high mileage, but they offered me a LOT more than any other W204 owner I had talked to. I had service records to prove that my car was bought from and regularly serviced at the same dealership. When I turned down their offer, I let the Executive Referral Agent know that many MB technicians told me that they have replaced many rusted rear subframes on the W204. I filed a NHTSA complaint, which I encourage you to do as well.
I can't believe that MB never issued a single TSB on this problem. At least the dealership service departments should have been looking for problems every time a W204 came in for service.
I was under the impression that 2012 cars werent having the same problem that 2008-2011 cars were.
mine is getting repaired right now in Ephrata, pa. The place is called Hubers, saw it recommended in this or another thread on here. They use good subframes out of later models. The Repair was qouted around $1700-1800, but I also needed a rear diff, the seals went bad a while ago, for $500-600 more
Unfortunately, mine is plagued with this issue.
My father is a repair shop owner. He's taken care of all of my cars forever. I'm almost 40 years old. I have worked in the shop with him before, but not enough experience to say what he said... "never in all of my years have I seen a car this young have a part that's rotted this badly".
Again, ~45k miles, 8 years old, garage kept. Original owner was my mother the first 4 years, then the next 4 years it's been in my hands. I live in NY, and of course there's snow and salts here, but I always kept my car as clean as possible and garage kept.
I get that rot happens, but this soon definitely sounds like a quality control problem. No other part is rotted... if I saw rot elsewhere, you can blame me as the owner for poor conditions for the car, but again this is not the case, and the rot is isolated to this darn part!
Originally Posted by CharlesMSU
I had a 2010 C300 4Matic Sport (W204), and the rear subframe rusted so badly on it that the lower control arms broke free. I called MBUSA since I bought mine at the dealership and always had it serviced at the very same dealership. MBUSA offered me 20% of the repair cost or $2500 trade-in value toward a new C-class or better. Mine had 158,000 miles on it, but I took such good care of it. I opted not to put more money into a ten-year-old car with such high mileage, so I sold it for $1500 and bought a Lincoln. (This all happened just two weeks ago.)
I appreciate that MBUSA's offer was reasonable since my car had such high mileage, but they offered me a LOT more than any other W204 owner I had talked to. I had service records to prove that my car was bought from and regularly serviced at the same dealership. When I turned down their offer, I let the Executive Referral Agent know that many MB technicians told me that they have replaced many rusted rear subframes on the W204. I filed a NHTSA complaint, which I encourage you to do as well.
I can't believe that MB never issued a single TSB on this problem. At least the dealership service departments should have been looking for problems every time a W204 came in for service.
I'm definitely filing a complain if they don't do something. I'm 99.9% sure they won't give me a good solution. No, I'm not buying another car from them. No, I'm not doing it for their service cost with a $500 discount. I want them to take the loss on this. Of course I'm willing to pay, but in my eyes this is their fault, even if it's outside of warranty. Poor quality is unacceptable, especially with Mercedes. I totally didn't expect to see some silly stuff like this on a Benz.
Again, if my car had more mileage or more years, or kept in poor conditions, I'd have some sort of understanding... but my car may be the worst example here. I read most posts and skimmed others, but I don't think I saw anyone with a car as young as mine or with as little mileage.
02-18-2020, 07:28 AM
